An Open Letter UPDATE: It's On The Agenda p.8

[Weatherford]

While we are at it, we should include the D&M committee (!!!):

A. KENT ALLEN DVM
Chair
PO BOX 835
MIDDLEBURG, VA
20118-0835
Day Phone: (540) 687-4663
Cell Phone: (540) 729-0574
FAX: (540) 687-4665
Email: vaequine@aol.com

MR. MIKE BAKER
Member
2666 BILLYS RD
MINDEN, NV
89423
Day Phone: (775) 267-4007
Evening Phone: (775) 450-3772
FAX: (775) 267-0459
Email: galenafrms@aol.com

MR. MICHAEL L. BARISONE
Member
PO BOX 474
CALIFON, NJ
07830
Day Phone: (908) 832-1400 A
Evening Phone: (908) 229-1182 A
Cell Phone: (908) 229-1182
FAX: (908) 832-1401 A
Email: BarisoneDressage@aol.com

MRS. JEAN T. BLACKSTONE
Member
491 CHESTERFIELD RD
BOGART, GA
30622-1764
Email: jeanblackstone@mindspring.com

MR EDWARD S BONNIE
Member
FROST BROWN TODD
400 W. MARKET ST., 32ND FLOOR
LOUISVILLE, KY
40202-3363
Day Phone: (502) 589-5400
FAX: (502) 581-1087
Email: Ebonnie@FBTLAW.COM

CHRISTINE M. DAINIS-ADAMS DVM
Member
20546 AIRMONT RD
BLUEMONT, VA
20135-2109
Day Phone: (540) 554-2354
Evening Phone: (540) 554-2354
Email: cdainis@earthlink.net

MR. DEREK DI GRAZIA
Member
126 CARMEL VALLEY RD
CARMEL VALLEY, CA
93924-9522
Email: DIG1007@COMCAST.NET

MICHELLE GIBSON
Member
12377 INDIAN MOUND ROAD
WELLINGTON, FL
33467
Cell Phone: (678) 575-1201
FAX: (561) 204-5558
Email: migibson@mindspring.com

MS. MARGIE GOLDSTEIN ENGLE
Member
DAYDREAM ASSOC.
2126 HENLEY PLACE
WELLINGTON, FL
33414
Day Phone: (561) 795-6203
Evening Phone: (561) 795-6203
FAX: (561) 795-0252

MRS. VALERIE J. KANAVY
Member
PO BOX 106
FORT VALLEY, VA
22652-0106
Day Phone: (540) 933-6131
FAX: (540) 933-6518
Email: vkanavy@rica.net

MS. KAVAR KERR
Member
PO BOX 471
WILSON, WY
83014-0471
Day Phone: (307) 733-8593
Cell Phone: (561) 758-0021
Email: kvrdnal@aol.com

MR. LONNIE F. LAVERY
Member
PO BOX 237
SHARON CENTER, OH
44274-0237
Evening Phone: (330) 229-1776


JOHN E LOWE DVM
Member
136 SNYDER HILL RD
ITHACA, NY
14850-6360
Day Phone: (607) 272-5163
Evening Phone: (607) 272-5163
Cell Phone: (607) 227-5025
FAX: (607) 253-3907
Email: jel23@cornell.edu

MR. A. L. MARTIN III
Member
PO BOX 686
ALVIN, TX
77512-0686
Day Phone: (281) 585-5381
Evening Phone: (281) 331-3704
FAX: (713) 585-5383

PAUL D. MC CLELLAN DVM
Member
1288 CALLE MARIA
SAN MARCOS, CA
92069-2166
Day Phone: (760) 591-9952
FAX: (760) 591-9977
Email: sdequinegroup@cox.net

MS. MARTHA MURDOCK
Member
P O BOX 98
SIMPSONVILLE, KY
40067-0098
Day Phone: (502) 722-9984
Evening Phone: (502) 722-0064
FAX: (502) 722-0064
Email: mstables@bellsouth.net

MR. DENNIS MURPHY
Member
14491 HIGHWAY 43
VANDIVER, AL
35176-7145
Day Phone: (205) 672-2046
Evening Phone: (205) 672-7699
FAX: (205) 672-7691
Email: MagiSteel@aol.com

MRS. KAREN L. O'CONNOR
Member
O'CONNOR EQUESTRIAN, INC.
PO BOX D
THE PLAINS, VA
20198 USA
Day Phone: (540) 687-3652
FAX: (540) 253-9885
Email: ocet93@aol.com

MS. SUSAN B. SCHOELLKOPF
Member
174 MIDDLESEX RD
BUFFALO, NY
14216
Day Phone: (716) 873-4664
Evening Phone: (716) 870-2533
Cell Phone: 716-870-2533
FAX: (716) 877-4001
Email: SBEAT@AOL.COM

MR MITCH J SPERTE
Member
WINDHOLME FARM
12425 WINDHOLME DR
ORANGE, VA
22960
Day Phone: (540) 903-2789
FAX: (540) 672-3451
Email: sperteshowhorses@aol.com

MRS. CAROL THOMPSON
Member
Day Phone: (732) 780-2441
Evening Phone: (723) 780-2441
Cell Phone: (732) 580-5670
FAX: (732) 780-2392

MRS CHRISTINE S TRAURIG
Member
2743 LLAMA COURT
CARLSBAD, CA
92009-6518
Day Phone: (760) 310-3599
Evening Phone: (760) 931-9477
Cell Phone: (760) 310-3599
FAX: (760) 931-9462
Email: CTetienne@aol.com

MRS. JUDITH F. WERNER
Member
3607 RED WING FARM RIDGE
WATERLOO, IL
62298-2213
Day Phone: (618) 939-6761
FAX: (413) 647-0650
Email: redwing@htc.net

MR. FRANK WILLARD
Member
DEEP RIVER FARMS
5220 W WENDOVER AVE
HIGH POINT, NC
27265-9177
Day Phone: (336) 454-1084
Evening Phone: (336) 471-7088
FAX: (336) 454-8452

MRS. SARA LORD IKE
NV Advisor
BOX 357
OLDWICK, NJ
08858-0357
Day Phone: (908) 234-1251
Evening Phone: (908) 439-3416
Cell Phone: (908) 872-0537
FAX: (908) 234-9417
Email: sike@uset.org

It's OUT! Linda Allen's 101 Exercises for Jumping co-authored by MOI!!!

[CHJoker]

Okay! Here we go!

Everyone!! Take action! Write an email explaining what you think. Doesn't have to be long! Just clear.

Cut and paste all the email addresses of the hearings committee and send it out!!

NO EXUSES!

"If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem." In this case, this is dead on. The guilty parties are hoping like crazy that no one cares.

Hey guys, I don't even live in the US anymore! But I am going to write.



Beth

[Dancing Lawn]

This whole thread is sickening. I live in my own quiet corner of the world, and don't get out much. Learning about all these atrocities makes me want to continue staying in my own little corner of the world. If this is what it's like out there, how can I possibly continue to sell horses, to anyone, anywhere? I know that I wouldn't tolerate any drugging of any kind, if it was only to get a ribbon. If my horse needs medication, he obviously isn't going to a show. Tranquilizers? To show? What's with everyone out there? Call me naieve, for sure.
Stick to your principals, War Admiral. Together, we can change the way things are done.
Yes, it can wear you down. It takes it's toll. But look at us who have been fighting the pmu issues for years. We're finally getting somewhere.
Get rid of the vicious, cruel win at all costs trainers, and allow only those with integrity to remain.

less hard work, more fine dining.
www.dancinglawnhorses.com

If guys can do it, how hard can it be?

Why be an extra, when you can be a star?

[War Admiral]

Wow - Thank you Weatherford for all your hard work compiling that list. You ROCK. I've redacted it down to just the e-mail addresses so everyone can just cut and paste, and I'll include them at the bottom of this post.

Kryswyn - That is a WONDERFUL idea. I'm game if the rest of you all are!

If you want to write but can't think what to say, then just copy and paste my Open Letter and say "I support the views contained in the attached letter, and would encourage your committee to take action."

If you DO write, and could send a copy to me, I'd greatly appreciate it: lizviola@aol.com.

If you're of a mind to do so, here are the e-mail addies redacted from Weatherford's post.

OFFICERS:
doconnor@usef.org - President
jlong@usef.org - CEO

HEARINGS COMMITTEE:

jeanblackstone@mindspring.com
corac@mindspring.com
redwing@htc.net
Bbbacon1@aol.com
galenafrms@aol.com
fernbittner@earthlink.net
jcbrown@sylvite.com
chiri302@hotmail.com
bc-bmf@attbi.com
rsdoughert@aol.com
kevinfreeman@freemanbaler.com
migibson@mindspring.com
agribbons@aol.com
mymol@aol.com
hildagurney@prodigy.net
karlvhart@aol.com
aecprovost@aol.com
ladyjj123@aol.com
Kerithlemon@yahoo.com
FLloyd@harwoodlloyd.com
jmoore@osierlea.com
Bill2760@aol.com
trifarms@aol.com
tim@ridepebblebeach.com
avontuur@earthlink.net
bluehillfarmpa@aol.com
howard@hbsimpson.com
eve@bernicebarbour.org
mike@tomlinson.com
scf29@aol.com
maureen@swde.com
chester@chesterweber.com

D&M COMMITTEE:

vaequine@aol.com
galenafrms@aol.com
BarisoneDressage@aol.com
jeanblackstone@mindspring.com
Ebonnie@FBTLAW.COM
cdainis@earthlink.net
DIG1007@COMCAST.NET
migibson@mindspring.com
vkanavy@rica.net
jel23@cornell.edu
sdequinegroup@cox.net
mstables@bellsouth.net
MagiSteel@aol.com
ocet93@aol.com
SBEAT@AOL.COM
sperteshowhorses@aol.com
CTetienne@aol.com
redwing@htc.net
sike@uset.org

USEF VETERINARIAN:
jlengel@usef.org

Thanks again y'all!! You're making my day!!

______________

Thoroughbreds! Everything else is just a horse. :-)

[CHJoker]

Okay...I just sent my email off. It took about 5 minutes to do. Thanks for compiling all the email addresses. It saves alot of time.

I forwarded you a copy, Liz.

Beth

[War Admiral]

Here's what I ended up putting as my cover letter to the Hearings & D&M Committees - you're welcome to copy & revise it. I did do separate personal e-mails to a couple of committee members I know personally, as well as an individual letter to John Long because I specifically wanted to cite Hollihorse's excellent info on the Delaware Racing Commission. He'll get the point.


*************

Ladies and gentlemen:

Many members of USEF feel that the Federation is not doing all it could do to stem the tide of illicit drugs and abusive practices in all USEF disciplines. We believe that with the Annual Meeting coming right up, the time is now to request concrete action.

Attached you will find a copy of my "Open Letter to David O'Connor", which has been sent to Messrs. O'Connor and Long and the editor of "Equestrian" as well as being forwarded to all members of the Hearing Committee and the D&M Committee.

If you can think of ways for us to help you, we stand ready. Likewise, we are very keen to know of ways and means we might use to effect concrete action.

Thank you for your consideration.

______________

Thoroughbreds! Everything else is just a horse. :-)

[ESG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OLD A/O:
Simple Question? What ever happened to the well schooled horse? The one you could bet your life on. Frankly, I am sick of the 120 day wonders.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The well schooled horse went the way of the dodo when it was discovered by "trainers" that medication could sometimes take the place of what they called "training". Yet another example of our greed and "fast food mentality" concerning showing horses in this country. And before anyone slams me for saying this doesn't happen in Europe, I know it does; but I suspect it happens with greater frequency now that the Europeans know that we dumba$$ed Americans can and do mistake shortcuts and flash for training and substance.

[ise@ssl]

I'm not understanding the question - are we willing to pay more for drug testing? We shouldn't be paying anything for drug testing except perhaps a minimal fee. THE FINES should pay for the drug testing. And I certainly agree there has been NO BIG STICK here and NO BIG PUBLICITY to create an economic deterrent or public humiliation within in the sport.

I am also disgusted to read on the BB's and hear it over and over again about the drug use by people involved in the sport - on show grounds.

Why does anyone feel the USEF should have to do anything more than call in the agencies that ALREADY EXIST TO DEAL WITH THIS and please note these agencies ARE PAID BY OUR TAX DOLLARS.

I've posted more than a few times - have the DEA or local law inforcement show up at shows with sniffer dogs un-announced and the "let the games begin". Horses can't score cocaine themselves for God's sake. Someone has it and it is a controlled substance. Illegal - end of story. If there is any "dope" on the show grounds it's too much IMO.

And if trainers/owners/anyone has pharmaceuticals that had to have come from a licensed veterinarian then they should go down as well. Don't these Veterinarians have some responsibility to ask - exactly what will you be doing with THIS MUCH BANAMINE?

War Admiral - you are right on point. It's time to clean house and more than a few individuals need to end up in the dumpster. There are some things that just CAN'T be painted over.

I also don't feel ONE BIT OF SYMPATHY for the concept that trainers have a lot of pressure from clients. The old saying is true "you lay down with dogs - you get up with fleas". If an owner waves money in front of anyone with the caveate - "make the ribbons happen"....it's a measure of character if the person sells their soul and takes the money or not. DIRTY MONEY IS DIRTY MONEY.

[War Admiral]

Well, ise, as RAyers has pointed out, drug testing is hugely expensive. Every time a new drug comes up they have to devise tests for it. I do agree w/ you 100% that the bulk of that money should come from increased fines - but I think that we will always have to pay some amount.

You are welcome to use the e-mail addresses Weatherford has provided to make your feelings known.

Let's move on this, guys. The annual meeting is coming right up.

______________

Thoroughbreds! Everything else is just a horse. :-)

[ESG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ise@ssl:
I'm not understanding the question - are we willing to pay more for drug testing? We shouldn't be paying anything for drug testing except perhaps a minimal fee. THE FINES should pay for the drug testing. And I certainly agree there has been NO BIG STICK here and NO BIG PUBLICITY to create an economic deterrent or public humiliation within in the sport.

I completely agree. And if the USEF or any other organization bitch about having to put out more money, we just turn around and tell them that if they'd been DOING their jobs and enforcing their own rules, they wouldn't have to fork over now.



I also don't feel ONE BIT OF SYMPATHY for the concept that trainers have a lot of pressure from clients. The old saying is true "you lay down with dogs - you get up with fleas". If an owner waves money in front of anyone with the caveate - "make the ribbons happen"....it's a measure of character if the person sells their soul and takes the money or not. DIRTY MONEY IS DIRTY MONEY.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. Everyone faces choices in life. Bad/lazy/corrupt/abusive trainers shouldn't be excused for making the wrong ones. Once a trainer sells his/her reputation out to a client or the pressures of winning in general, they're morally hosed. And sooner or later, they're hosed in the show ring too...........when they get caught. As they will be if all of us start making noises like WarAdmiral and telling the powers that be that we're not putting up with this crap any more.

[War Admiral]

So, folks, IF a SIG (Special Interest Group) were formed to lobby USEF for increased fines/penalties for D&M infractions & abuse, would you join?

I'm not saying I'm really gonna go there... I never expected this to get this far, I just woke up in a bad mood & fired off a letter! But let's just say one WERE formed - what would you want it to be like and would you join it?

At this point I'm not envisioning anything terribly formal - no dues or anything like that - no officers, maybe just an advisory council - you might, as Kryswyn has suggested, just pay a buck to get a button or badge to wear.

Would you do it or not?

______________

Thoroughbreds! Everything else is just a horse. :-)

[can't re-]

H4H = Horse(wo)men for Horses!

I wrote my letter.

[ellen]

This problem is already out of control in the industry - My husband has been a trainer for 20+ years and has seen a steady increase in the use of drugs - we all know the source of the drugs - they have to come from a vet or someone in a vet facility that has access - you don't get these caliber of drugs at your local tack store or through a catalog!

Until vets refuse to hand over drugs to trainers (which last time I looked, was illegal), this problem will continue.

More regulations (and absolute enforcement) need to be in place at shows to discourage this -
I agree there are practices in our industry that have been tolerated; now is the time to clean house -

[Ghazzu]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ellen:
This problem is already out of control in the industry - My husband has been a trainer for 20+ years and has seen a steady increase in the use of drugs - we all know the source of the drugs - they have to come from a vet or someone in a vet facility that has access - you don't get these caliber of drugs at your local tack store or through a catalog!

Until vets refuse to hand over drugs to trainers (which last time I looked, was illegal), this problem will continue.

-<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You'd be surprised--a DVM on a professional mailing list recently posted that clients of his were able to obtain ketamine (a DEA scheduled substance) through a catalog.

I'm constantly amazed at the stuff some people acquire "from the farrier", as well--sometimes stuff with foregn labels on it.

Prescription drugs can and are legally dispensed for use "by or under the direction of a licensed veterinarian".
Would you be willing to pay a call fee plus a charge for medication every 8 hours if your horse were on antibiotics?
Do you think a DVM must be present in order for your horse to be given phenylbutazone in his dinner?
Does the horse with hives or lymphangitis need a DVM to administer the dexamethasone twice daily?

I don't believe in handing out sedatives and tranquilizers like candy, but there are circumstances in which they are dispensed ethically, IMO. Unfortunately, they are not always used as directed.

Certainly there are DVMs who are acting like drug wholesalers. That's also unfortunate. However, off show grounds,I can't see that USEF has any jurisdiction over it.
Perhaps, like at the track, it could be grounds for suspension if one were found in possession of needles, syringes, and/or medication which did not have a clear prescription label for a specific individual horse (i.e., a DVM friend who owns TBs once got in trouble for leaving a tube of Banamine paste for one of her own horses at the track without labelling it.)

Unashamed member of the Arab clique...just settin' on the Group W bench.

[ESG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by War Admiral:
So, folks, IF a SIG (Special Interest Group) were formed to lobby USEF for increased fines/penalties for D&M infractions & abuse, would you join?

I'm not saying I'm really gonna go there... I never expected this to get this far, I just woke up in a bad mood & fired off a letter! But let's just say one WERE formed - what would you want it to be like and would you join it?

At this point I'm not envisioning anything terribly formal - no dues or anything like that - no officers, maybe just an advisory council - you might, as Kryswyn has suggested, just pay a buck to get a button or badge to wear.

Would you do it or not?

______________

Thoroughbreds! Everything else is just a horse. :-)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In the proverbial New York minute. Where do I sign up?

[Horseymama]

Wow, I had no idea this thread was here...just read the whole thing.

Thank you, War Admiral, for that great letter. You are very articulate, I admire your writing skills!

I would like to address a point that Linda Allen made about owners/clients taking a little more interest in how they win.

I think the average owner has NO idea what goes on behind the scenes. Think about it...lets say little Suzie is thirteen years old and has been taking riding school lessons for five years. Mom and dad do no more than drive her to lessons and pick her up, maybe they watch a few lessons now and then. Then little Suzie wants a children's hunter, so they go to trainer "X," (the one that little Suzie wants to ride with), and they buy her a children's hunter. Do mom and dad know about double dipping commissions or drugging horses or anything like that? Of course not, they both work, little Suzie has a little brother who keeps them busy as well, they just want little Suzie to be happy. They pay the bill when it comes, with all the "miscellanious" charges because never in their wildest dreams would they suspect that trainer "X" is drugging little Suzie's horse!

Like I said on the "THE suspension list" thread, I, personally have made some dumb mistakes as an owner in this industry, and have learned dearly from them. However, I make my (meager) living as a NNT and therefore take a genuine interest in what goes on. I am dedicated to educating myself in horsemanship and the horse industry. But what about those parents and amateur owners out their with other lives and careers who show horses as a hobby and don't or haven't had 20 years of experience and mistakes in order to be "smart" in the horse business?

Like I have said before, we need to build some basic standards, certification, code of ethics, by which professionals can operate. Maybe it should be written in a handbook and distributed when you join the federation. That way, people who are new to the horse industry have some basic idea of what is acceptable and what is not.

It is not O.K. that in order to operate as a professional in this business all one must do is write a letter to the federation "declaring" themselves a professional.

[ESG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Horseymama:
_It is not O.K._ that in order to operate as a professional in this business all one must do is write a letter to the federation "declaring" themselves a professional.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No offense intended, but what makes you think even the letter is required? Anyone can hang out a shingle and call him/herself a professional. Anyone.

[Rocky]

I am all for "good" training and "good" horsemanship, and no drugging....but are you saying that there should be a zero drug policy for a USEF horse showing?

I totally suport your efforts in the enforcement of drugs and medications rules, but I cannot support your Open letter if your intent is to make all horse showing in the US follow the FEI medications rules.

I think that drugs like banamine, isox, and bute have their place when used in the legal amounts for theraputic purposes. I believe that injectables like Legend and Adequan are a god send for our older horse athletes. In my opinion it would be counterproductive for the horse's well being to remove an exhibitor's right to use these types of meds in their current legal dosages.....Isn't this all about what is good for the horse....

War Admiral, this letter was a great idea until the "no drug at all for any reason" and "call the drug dogs to the horse shows" zealots got on the bandwagon.

Just what we need the public to see at our shows, police and drug sniffing dogs....that is a great public relations event for the sport....

Let's take a look at the BIG PICTURE before you drag this issue out in front of the non horse public....

My new barn mantra...MYOB MYOB

[RAyers]

Rocky, you are a bit mistaken. The FEI DOES allow the use of drugs such as Adequan, Legend, gastogaurd or ranitidine provided the overseeing vet administers them while the horse is on the show grounds. We do this at 3-day quite a bit. Isox can be used up to 1 week prior to the competition. I have had to become VERY familiar with the FEI medications rules because of my competing, working with the vets on the veterinary committee at several CCIs and having a vet that is a FEI vet. The key with the FEI is that NOBODY other than a vet can administer drugs for therapeutic purposes during a competition and if the injury is not treatable with reasonable therapy, the horse must be withdrawn.

It is very fair.

Reed

[ise@ssl]

Well Rocky - the current policy on drug use at horse shows by people is WHAT? That's right - nothing. Yet time after time we hear it and read it on BB's about the use - blatant and otherwise. So shall we just continue to ignore it?? Rather than go after it and stop it to keep it quiet and not get bad publicity.

Seems to me the only time our sport gets publicity on a national level is more often then not when it is negative and a scandal.

I still don't understand when horses test for cocaine why law enforcement isn't notified and brought into the situation.

And BTW - having gone to college in the late 60's early 70's - I'm certainly not naive about drug use of all kinds - but I do have ZERO TOLERANCE. That doesn't make me a zealot. Haven't seen a single person who performs better, thinks better, does anything better or improves the state of world with DOPE. The ones who think it helps them don't have to see themselves.