If these horses were intended for anything but slaughter, why would the owners refuse to comment to the media? And why would the man at the Ramey farm have said "I don't want to talk about nothing" (nice grammar by the way
). Really choice folks, no doubt.
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As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.
This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.
Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.
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2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.
3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.
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Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.
Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.
Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.
Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:
Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.
Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.
Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.
Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.
Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.
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Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.
5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.
6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.
If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.
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The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.
8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.
Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.
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24+ horses killed in Indiana truck wreck
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actually, I saw a few that looked half starved.
And if you wanted sound riding horses, would you put them on new trucks immediately?
And what of the connection between the name and the packing/slaughter plant?
And the response the reporter got when he asked the question?
All these things add up in my head to something shady. Not that horse slaughter is inherently shady, but there's too much weirdness here. I have my own theories but not going to speculate on them here and get myself into trouble. But I do think that given the situation, the connections found by COTH'ers, etc, that it needs to be reported on more fully...
just my 2 cents
(and I do agree with you in theory, for most things, but why give the reporter a brush off if the horses were not headed that way?)
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As I understood the piece on channel 5 that man WAS the owner of the horses. Incidentally the survivors were loaded onto another truck before nightfall and shipped somewhere?????
The driver was cited for not having a log book. That and the weight limits would have put him on this death trap of a 2 lane secondary road used by other trucks for the same reason. Not the first truck that's ended up scattered all over the landscape.
These poor beasts had been on that double decker for..well...at least 16 hours I'd guess coming down from Minnesota..wonder how the larger ones could even stand. Wonder if anybody except the distraught witnesses bothered to give them any water before they were shuttled off....
Anyway, the 11pm news featured a huge stack of e-mails and LEAD OFF story..ahead of Ivan and the Apprentice recap.
Keep it up.When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.
The horse world. Two people. Three opinions
.
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Findeight - Wow, the story led off your newscast? What city?
This whole story is awful. I hope the media continues to put pressure on the owner and that the horses get much-needed food, water, and veterinary care. Some of the horses they were loading looked like canidates for humane euthanasia even before another cramped trailer ride.
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Alyson: A LOT of really nice looking well kept horses go to slaughter, just so you know. Check out the videos several have provided as well as talk w/ people who regularly attend sales & compete against kill buyers (they also buy from yearling sales where all look nice & healthy). Your friend who's horse was stolen was probably nice looking but she recognized the need to check slaughter houses, right?
There are three plants accepting horses.
To avoid USDA shipping regulation violations (as well as avoid hassle from horse people) shippers WILL lie about the destination of their load. Regardless, I don't worry about attatching scandal to these people, it was scandalous how they packed those horses in."There's a fine line between genius and madness. I've removed that line." -Super Genius/me
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Did I miss something? What was the relationship of the "slaughterhouse" to the Ramey's? Cindeye, did you call them back to find out if they take horses?
I have to ask, what kind of horse owner would allow newly purchased horses to be transported in this manner? Heck I can't even drive by these trucks without my stomach lurching.
Something is really fishy in this whole sad episode and I sure do hope the truth comes out for the sake of those horses that have passed on, and may pass on as a result of this negligence.
Nanc
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OK Friends!! Will you come to my rescue regarding this very issue??
http://minihorse.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=22302
They are attacking me over this very situation.
I started it (I'm fourhorses over there) and boy have I ruffled some feathers. I can't do it alone
There be venom over there. 

Kristie (who has sent her thank you to Ms. G at Channel 5
"Concern for animals is a matter of taking the side of the weak against the strong, something the best people have always done." Harriet Beecher Stowe 1811-1896
Ponies are cool!
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Ya know, my ENTIRE issue is with the way those horses were transported.....it makes me even ANGRIER that they were supposedly NOT headed for slaughter (not that is was ok then either) and the fact that packed those injured horses up and kept them moving...what was the damn rush?????? The lack of time, vet care etc. makes those people in MY mind abusive horse owners.....
I wonder if there is some way we could get in touch with the woman that put them at her farm...maybe she has more detail?PROUD MEMBER OF THE \"OMGiH I LOFF MY MARE\" CLIQUE
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Its working folks keep pinning the news people in Cincinnati they are starting to question what was really going on...They actually sent reporters to the owners home...Lets work to keep this investigation going!!!
Were Horses Bound For Stables Or Slaughterhouse?
Use of Double-Deck Trailer Raises Doubts About Owners' Intentions
POSTED: 12:09 am EDT September 17, 2004
UPDATED: 9:12 am EDT September 17, 2004
FLEMINGSBURG, KY. -- Did the owners who lost 25 horses in an horrific highway accident plan to sell them to riding stables or to a slaughterhouse? News 5's Brian Hamrick went to Jody Ramey’s farm here Thursday to ask.
Dozens of emails to WLWT expressed outrage after a double-deck trailer crammed with more than 50 horses flipped over in Dearborn County (Ind.) Wednesday, spilling its cargo along the highway.
The emails said transporting horses in a double-deck trailer is inhumane and that the horses must have been bound for a slaughterhouse. Ramey was quoted as saying the horses were bought at auction in Minnesota to be sold to riding stables.
Hamrick posed the question to two men at the Ramey farm. "I don’t want to talk about nothing," one man said. The other stayed silent.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Castlegate:
Ya know, my ENTIRE issue is with the way those horses were transported.....it makes me even ANGRIER that they were supposedly NOT headed for slaughter (not that is was ok then either) and the fact that packed those injured horses up and kept them moving...what was the damn rush?????? The lack of time, vet care etc. makes those people in MY mind abusive horse owners..... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's pretty much how I feel as well. And also that this is an opportunity to educate the public, to boot.
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email address of reporter doing the investigation.. Please lets help him keep it going he is only scratching the surface!!
bhamrick@channelcincinnati.com
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There are some perplexing things I have picked up from this story that I would love clarification on, if anyone has sorted out things I have missed:
1. Double decker trailer enroute from MN to KY overturns for unknown (uncharged) reasons and kills many horses.
2. Owner of horses (also driver?) claims horses going to Flemingsburg, KY to be sold as riding or trail horses.
3. Owner/driver loads up said remaining horses, injuries and all, heads off to home (presumably Flemingsburg, KY).
4. Owner/driver has residence in Flemingsburg.
5. There is also an "all species" slaughterhouse in Flemingsburg.
6. No obvious horses, stables, pastures at what we assume to be the owner/driver residence (this means nothing - they could lease a farm).
Here are the things that trouble me (OK, aside from the idea of horses in a double decker, the thought that careless driving may have been involved and the idea that someone could slap those poor animals back on a trailer and send them on there way without a appropriate rest and medical care - those things bother me just as much) but these are questions I have no answers for, and I'm just wondering if anyone has a clue:
1. Why drive right past the IL plant if you have an (obviously) FULL load of horses in good flesh? Where are the economics in that? I was all set to (albeit skeptically) buy into the trail/riding story until we learned...
2. That there is an "all species" plant in the same city that the owner/driver lives in. But several other people have come online to say ONLY the TX/IL plants accept horses. So what's up with this? Do other plants accept horses? Is it only TX/IL that process human consumption grade and other plants have other uses? I am very confused here...
3. Is there ANY connection between the owner/driver and the plant? I haven't seen one (other than living in the same city, but that's not a connection, ya know?). Am I missing something?Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DMK:
Is it only TX/IL that process human consumption grade and other plants have other uses? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That is my understanding...
As to the federal regs against double deck trailers only applying to slaughter-bound horses, that is because the govt. was only authorized to write laws pertaining to slaughter-bound horses. It was beyond the scope of USDA's authority and responsibility (as directed in 1996 Farm Bill) to write laws that would have covered all use of double deck trailers. But individual states are allowed to write more restrictive legislation, so some have banned double deck trailers outright (some have had these regs for many years...)
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> “There is a loophole in the law that doesn’t cover pets or riding horses,†Girone said. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And it is likely a loophole because why would you ship an animal you love/need to keep sound in a dangerous method? Why buy 50 horses to resell as (presumably) sound horses and pack 'em like sardines into a truck? And if she is reselling these guys, her concern for their welfare seems pretty low. It's like those dog breeders they nail from time to time with 500 dogs in filthy kennels - if she had so little regard as to pack 50 horses on a trailer - is she going to care about the conditions when they get home?
All I can say is this is sickening, saddening and disturbing.The witchy witch witch of south central NC.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Magnolia:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> “There is a loophole in the law that doesn’t cover pets or riding horses,†Girone said. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And it is likely a loophole because why would you ship an animal you love/need to keep sound in a dangerous method? Why buy _50_ horses to resell as (presumably) sound horses and pack 'em like sardines into a truck? And if she is reselling these guys, her concern for their welfare seems pretty low. It's like those dog breeders they nail from time to time with 500 dogs in filthy kennels - if she had so little regard as to pack 50 horses on a trailer - is she going to care about the conditions when they get home?
All I can say is this is sickening, saddening and disturbing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Even though I vow to never have another conversation with anyone who is pro-horse slaughter, I just can't pass up this opportunity. There were some people who posted on other threads about how slaughter is a necessary evil and is a humane method of disposing of unwanted horses. Here is a very good example of one of the multitude of reasons why slaughter is anything BUT a humane alternative. You have to take the days with no food or water crammed and terrified into consideration when you decide if it is humane or not. It isn't just the bolt to the head (hopefully hits the head)and the stringing up by one leg and having their throat slit while they are still alive, it is the whole process that starts when the killer buyer takes possession. All you pro slaughter (no reference to the quoted poster) people take a look at this long and hard and then see if you can still in good conscience stick with your belief.
To the rest of you, good job and welcome to my team!
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Somewhere in this long thread it was mentioned that the Kentucky plant was an uninspected facility. That would mean that none of the animals processed at that plant could be sold for human consumption. I am not certain about use as pet food. I almost think the law requires the plant to be inspected for pet food also.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ProzacPuppy:
If they weren't going to slaughter and owner was just transporting them for resale wouldn't they all need coggins and interstate transport papers from the vet? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, although nobody has said they didn't have such papers, and very few states actually require you to stop and show your paperwork. FL and maybe CA have ag stations, but that's it as far as I know. I don't think you are automatically required to show ag paperwork at a weight station, although I am sure they could request to see such paperwork.Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.
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