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24+ horses killed in Indiana truck wreck

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  • Because these are some of the same horses this trainer saw with gaping wounds two weeks ago. And Bryn, please don't shoot the messenger. To my knowledge, this man is the only person who has been willing both to brave the trails around the Ramey's farm (it IS hunting season here in KY) to check on these horses at all, and to allow his observations to be made public. The only reason for that was that he wanted to let people who were worried that all the animals were dying of sepsis on the back of the Ramey place know that a few of them are actually doing well.

    If anyone would like to make the journey into the woods on private land during gun season, I'd be happy to provide you with a topographical map.

    Comment


    • I was at a cattle sale Thursday. I inspected one of the "potbelly" trucks. This is what I saw: It appears that animals loaded on the bottom deck are either loaded at that level, or they can go down a "ramp." Now this ramp is aluminum, no rubber on it. Once in the bottom area, the height appeared to be about 5 foot. Cramped. The flooring is all aluminum (if you could see it from all the manure). There are strips of aluminum to prevent the animals from slipping; these are bars of aluminum that are about 1/2" square. They form rectangle areas of about 1 foot by 1 1/2 foot; get the picture? The upper deck is loaded either by a "chute" or the animals have to use the ramp. There is a small area near the front (like the "neck" of a trailer) that smaller animals could be loaded.

      The first thing I thought when I saw it was my horses would hang a foot on the aluminum bars. The footing would be very unsure. Also, the bottom deck is very cramped. A horse, mule, or even pony would have a neck ache from having to hold the head down low. If you can imagine the line of a horse's head and neck on a quarter horse when it is showing, that is what it would be like.

      Comment


      • You cannot imagine what it is like during hunting season in Kentucky! You have to experience it. Some people keep their stock up to prevent them from being shot during the ten day gun season.

        I read in our local paper yesterday that a hunter killed an albino deer. The deer had both sets of sexual organs. I think I would have passed that one up since it had made it this long!

        Comment


        • I am not trying to shoot the messenger, but Rameys have lots of horses - auction horses - beat up horses. And then there are those trying very hard to make all this go away - poor Rameys. I say nonsense. They ain't poor and it doesn't sound like this horrific wreck has changed anything about the way they do business. The fact that they will say nothing about these horses says plenty. . . spelled GUILTY. If they came forward and said "we have had so many calls about the surviving horses. They are fine. They have healed up enough that we now can offer them to the public for sale" or "they are healing fine. Here are some photos and we plan to offer them for sale in a month or so", people would be juming all over the opportunity to buy them and I might add at alot more money than they would normally get. But no, they offer nothing. No pictures. No comment. No nothing. If your friend were that close to any horse on Ramey property, why not take photos? Seems strange. I admire your friend for hiking around during gun season, but if he/she is going to all that trouble, why not take photos to help all those concerned know for sure. Just leads many back to the same old same old, keep calling/writing the Rameys so they know those concerned aren't going to go away.
          bryn

          Comment


          • Bryn, I have zero stake in this. I live in Fleming County, and as I've said numerous times before, I'd never even heard of the Rameys before this wreck. I have no doubt that the Rameys are horse traders, but other than that, know nothing about them.

            What I resent is the implication in both your posts that I (and/or the trainer I know) am/is trying to make this go away. The only motive the trainer had was to offer me the best update he had. The only motive I had in posting it was to offer all of you the same.

            Something seems to have been lost, here, which is that the land where these horses are is NOT the Ramey's main property. It is a large, family-owned piece of land that typically runs cattle and is used as a private hunting ground. Until these horses were seen on this property in the past few weeks, none of the neighbors had ever seen any horses there before.

            You seem to have been keeping up with this thread -- how many horses could even a horse trader have with gaping wounds bad enough to make a professional horse trainer think they had been attacked by wild animals? He was excited to see that several of them seemed to be healing, and he called me to share that excitement. Frankly, there's not necessarily a one-to-one correspondence between those people who care (deeply) about the horses' well-being and those who want to prosecute the Rameys. Here in Eastern KY, there is a deep abiding suspicion of getting involved in anything that would pit an outsider against one of "our" own. To put it as plain as I can, the people who want to help the horses in whatever way possible may not be the same people who want to get "evidence" against the Rameys. Your posts have implied, to me at least, that anyone who wouldn't want to do both is on the Rameys' side. That's simply not true.

            Nothing would make me happier than to see a video update of the horses, or even to hear from a vet who has treated these horses, but unlike you, I am glad to learn that five of the horses who previously had gaping wounds that looked infected are doing a lot better.

            Comment


            • Your suggestion in your last post that I am not glad injured horses are looking better regardless of whether they are from the Ramey wreck is a very inappropriate comment and most unfair. Of course, I am very glad. Why would I be spending time on this if I did not care about the horses? Rameys are just one of many who do the same thing with horses, and until double deckers are outlawed, it will continue.

              However, without photos or descriptions, it is hard to know they are the same horses though.

              There were 102 horses on two double deckers on September 15th. The evidence suggests the source of these horses in Minnesota supplies the Rameys on a regular basis and this trip with double deckers was not the first nor was it the last. Given the difficulty of loading and unloading horses in double deckers and the length of journey for these horses, it would not be unusual for horses to come off those trailers with gaping wounds.

              However you have offered new information in your last post which suggests they MAY indeed be the survivors of the Ramey wreck. I am familiar with Fleming County, its people, and its geography. What you say is so.

              I don't mean to be grumpy with you but I have discovered some information recently that hit me hard. I wish I could share here, but I cannot.
              bryn

              Comment


              • SteppinEasy and Bryn, please keep the following, very recently-published article in mind. It is the reason I was very careful about what I took photos of and what I did not take photos of on my recent visit to Flemingsburg.

                Even though the language of the law specifies "sexual conduct, some private parts", I have no doubt that the burden of proof would fall on any photographer who is perceived as a threat or a nuisance by a Flemingsburg resident to prove what they were NOT taking pictures of, if you get my drift. A photographer could be taking the most innocent pictures, yet be accused of something else entirely.

                By the way, won't we get further with this if we all try to get along?

                "New Law for Old Crime Brought to Bear in Flemingsburg

                By: DANETTA BARKER, Staff writer
                Submitted: 10/9/2004


                FLEMINGSBURG -- A relatively new law was tested in Fleming District Court Thursday when a man pleaded guilty to voyeurism.

                Anthony Montgomery, 42, was charged with voyeurism after owners of a house on Dye Street reported someone lurking around their house.

                According to police records, Montgomery intentionally entered the yard and looked through the windows of the house.

                County Attorney John Price said the voyeurism law was put on the books in 2002. Not many people have been charged with voyeurism since that time.

                Voyeurism is defined as intentionally using or causing the use of any camera, videotape or other image for purpose of observing, viewing, photographing, filming or videotaping sexual conduct, some private parts of another person without that person's consent.

                The law was enacted to protect personal privacy.

                People are supposed to feel safe in a place where a reasonable person would believe his or her conduct or privacy was protected, according to the law.

                One section of the law states that anyone who intentionally uses the unaided eye or any device designed to improve visual acuity for the purpose of viewing or observing a person in privacy without that person's consent can be prosecuted. The law also states that entering or remaining in a person's home with intent to view the person unaware is prohibited.

                Montgomery received 60 days in jail, however, Price agreed to work release. Montgomery works with his father in a logging business. He was also ordered to stay out of the Flemingsburg city limits.

                More commonly known as a Peeping Tom, voyeurism has entered the world of high tech with the use of video recorders and the Internet.

                Voyeurism may be new to courts in Kentucky, but the practice goes back many centuries. Legend is that Lady Godiva protested the taxes her husband had levied on the citizens of Coventry, England. He said he would lift the taxes only if she agreed to ride through the streets naked. Lady Godiva took the challenge, mounted a horse, covered herself only with her long hair and rode through the town. Residents were ordered not to look as the lady took her ride.

                According to legend, Tom defied the order by peeking out of a window to get a glimpse of the lady. He was also struck blind for disobeying the order.

                Contact Danetta Barker at Danetta.Barker@lee.net or call 606-564-9091, ext. 272.

                For more Fleming County news go to www.flemingsburg-online.com.
                Source:
                Link To This Article: http://flemingsburg-online.com/artic...articleid=9636"
                Joan S.
                Thoroughbreds in Motion
                Those Old Grand Prix Photos, Vol. II

                Comment


                • The author of this article was the one that was so very "courteous" to me when I asked if there were any updates on the wreck.......

                  Comment


                  • IF this voyuerism law is applied broadly by the Fleming District Court (interpreted beyond the "sexual" applications), it could have a negative effect on the local Flemingsburg reporters and newspaper photographers.

                    On the other hand, the the Flemingsburg reporters aren't in much danger of this law applying to them since they don't investigate what's going on in their area.

                    Reporter Danetta Barker's article shows improved attention to detail, however she is consistent in her dishwater writing style.

                    A nature or landscape photographer, with no photos including people, could hardly be a voyeur.
                    =======================================
                    \"The humblest individual exerts some influence, either for good or evil, upon others.\" - Henry Ward Beecher

                    Comment


                    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by perfectionist:
                      The author of this article was the one that was so very "courteous" to me when I asked if there were any updates on the wreck....... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                      Perfectionist,

                      For what it's worth, here's Ms. Barker's editor's response when I emailed her a while back. No salutation; she jumps right in:

                      "As much as we love someone who is removed from the situation taking on one of our reporters, I have to ask you to get your facts straight before you sling any mud.

                      Danetta Barker wrote the story. She is not quoted in it -- reporters never are. What she wrote someone else said.

                      I would also say you would do well to read Danetta's story as they appear in our paper -- not some periodical which obviously used our story without permission or payment.

                      You obviously have an axe to grind and that's fine, but I would urge you to use the proper forum -- the editorial page. We welcome all letters on pretty much any topic.

                      Finally, I will tell you Danetta is one of the finest reporters I've ever worked with. She is also the only one who has written on this topic who knows the family that owns the horses and lives in the county where their farm is located.

                      Thanks for your e-mail.
                      Betty Coutant
                      News Editor
                      800-264-9091 ext. 274
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Joan S. [mailto:JSflwr@bestweb.net]
                      Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 1:19 PM
                      To: Danetta Barker
                      Cc: Betty Coutant
                      Subject: "Accident involves 50 Horses bound for Fleming"


                      Dear Ms. Barker,

                      In response to a query for further information about a September 17, 2004 news story carried by The Ledger Independent entitled, "Accident involves 50 Horses bound for Fleming", you were recently quoted on The Chronicle of the Horse on-line bulletin board as having said:

                      "I don't know why you insist on defaming a couple
                      who were simply trying to get thier horse home when
                      this accident occurred. It was an accident. I don't you
                      realize that. These are trying to recover, leave them alone."

                      Let me first say, it’s concern over issues, not people. This isn’t about persecuting the Rameys. It’s about fixing what went wrong on September 15, 2004 – before it happens again, perhaps with an even more disastrous result.

                      That said, there are a number of reasons why I choose not to leave this issue alone. Let me try to explain one of them now. It stems from the following eyewitness account.

                      From WCPO News, Channel 9 Cincinnati, OH, 9/15/04 11:12:03 PM:

                      "There were horses with legs hanging off -- completely off,"
                      said one witness who lived near the crash site. "There were
                      horses with their guts hanging out. It was just disastrous --
                      just terrible."

                      This is horrific! If a deranged person had gone into a stable or pasture and committed the same atrocities on horses as the Rameys chose to do with an inadequate tractor-trailer, the deranged person would be vilified, branded as the personification of evil, and would probably be considered lucky if he or she lived long enough to face the judicial system. But because Jodey and Kristopher Ramey, et al., did it with a cattle hauler, they should get a free pass?

                      No.

                      This was no "accident". This was the unfortunate and inevitable result of a series of very questionable choices:

                      - The Ramey’s chose the rig they were using. The trailer didn’t end up attached to the cab by "accident".

                      - The Ramey’s chose to load it as they did, putting 80% of the weight on top. The horses weren’t loaded that way by "accident".

                      - And the Ramey’s chose the route they traveled. They didn’t find themselves on Indiana State Road 1 by "accident."

                      So tell me, what motivated those choices? Greed? Ignorance? Arrogance?

                      Does greed, ignorance or arrogance justify the terrible agony and death that those 21 horses suffered? What were their choices in the matter?

                      And lets not forget that those choices were not made by one misguided man, but by at least the three in the cab of the hauler that tipped over, plus who knows how many others in the second truck that was traveling with it. Which, by the way, one of the Rameys radioed NOT to come back and help.

                      You now have a choice as to whether or not to answer any of the questions set forth above. Which is more than those 21 doomed horses had on September 15, 2004.

                      Thank you,
                      Joan Slaughter"

                      Betty Coutant was totally non-response to the questions I asked and completely missed the point of my email. By choice, I wonder? Or just in denial?
                      Joan S.
                      Thoroughbreds in Motion
                      Those Old Grand Prix Photos, Vol. II

                      Comment


                      • Okay, I'm confused and there are way to many pages that are on this thread to find this.... but where does the reporter, Danette say anything on this thread regarding the horses and the quoted comment to "leave the Ramey's alone"?
                        The News Editor is correct in the fact that in the story that appears in the local paper the reporter does not quote herself. However, it does surprise me that the news editor would admit that she sent a reporter out to cover a story when she COULD be biased. (Then again, it's probably a small town and not many available staff.) It's not a typical practice.... at least where I come from. However, being transplanted in Kentucky leaves me with new experiences everyday. (Sadly, most aren't good!)
                        The news editor does bring up another good aspect. It might be a good Cover your buns moment to attribute your source if you quote it!! (I think most of you have!)
                        Last thought, if the reporter had first hand knowledge of the family, why didn't SHE get photos of the animals?

                        Just my two pennies tonight.
                        Stacy

                        Comment


                        • It's on page 34 about halfway down the page posted by Blueboo.
                          bryn

                          Comment


                          • *snickers* I can't get over the newspaper editors' commentary. So, I'm going off topic a bit.

                            Here's attributing the source correctly:
                            According to the 3/31/04 Audit Bureau of Circulations Publisher Statements or company records. The Ledger Independent in Maysville, Kentucky, the newspaper has a daily distribution of 8,755. The parent company is Lee Enterprises.
                            (WOW KIDS! I'll just consider the source when I reread the letter from the esteemed news editor! )

                            ****Splash, you meanie! You're not supposed to pick on that poor lil' reporterette! That mean 'ole "News Editor" will get you!

                            Interestingly enough, Ms. Coutant might be reminded of a little journalism term called "Fair Use". She comments on the need to ask permission to quote the story or pay for useage. One small problem is that the newspaper is "published".(and most would consider the actual paper 'out of print' which leaves it more open to fair use.) Most scholars would probably agree that it is less likely to be considered 'coypright infringement'. The newspaper itself is called "PUBLIC DOMAIN"!!!A newspaper or periodical can be copied. No one used it on their personal website to profit. It was either partially copied or linked to be discussed (Hello, it's called NEWS....or supposed to be!) You guys WERE nice enough to attribute the source! LOL
                            (I did find the quoted email note from Danetta you guys are talking about. Boy, would I love to get my hands on that one!)


                            On the bright side, I guess I was awake during Journalism classes college back in the dark age. Miracles exist! :O)


                            Stacy

                            Comment


                            • I think this Betty Coutant is mistaken. The "courteous" reporter, Danetta Barker, replied to an email I sent her. I went to the FLEMINGSBURG paper and read BARKER'S report of the accident. I emailed her and just asked her if there was any additonal information. Then she jumped on me like a duck on a Junebug. Here is the email thread:


                              "I know the people. Our community is not trying to concel anything.
                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: perfectionist
                              Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 7:02 PM
                              To: Danetta Barker
                              Subject: RE: Horse accident/Ramey


                              I guess you do not know the "whole" story, or maybe it is as it has been suggested, and others have interpreted, that the community is trying to conceal something.

                              I do not consider your response to be professional and to be characteristic of a "journalist." There is probably a deep-rooted reasoning for your response.





                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Danetta Barker [mailtoanetta.Barker@lee.net]
                              Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 9:21 AM
                              To: Perfectionist
                              Subject: RE: Horse accident/Ramey


                              I don't know why you insist on defaming a couple who were simply trying to get thier horse home when this accident occurred. It was an accident. I don't you realize that. These are trying to recover, leave them alone.
                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Perfectionist
                              Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 10:19 PM
                              To: Danetta Barker
                              Subject: Horse accident/Ramey


                              Hello

                              There has been much discussion about this accident that left over 20 horses dead. Have you had any updates on it? I can give you a link to a forum that has much discussion about it. Thank you,

                              http://chronicleforums.com/groupee/f...375203493&p=33

                              Perfectionist"

                              Well, after her not so professional responses, I contacted the paper. Guess what!?? No response from them!!!

                              There is another thread on this board about an article in THE HORSE. Have you seen that????

                              Comment


                              • This is what another member posted under the topic CASTING STONES... I hope that member does not mind me copying and pasting here. It is THE HORSE article message:

                                "Ohhhh....could hardly believe this editorial when I read it tonight. Danged if I can find it on line yet to link but it makes those of us who showed our outrage at someone stupid enough to cram over a 50 horses in a double decker seem like we were being dreadfully unfair to the Rameys. Let me do some typing and some quoting.

                                "Casting Stones...Accidents are terrible things. A horse buyer (not a slaughter buyer) acquired 50 horses from sales in Minesota to take to his farm in Kentucky. He's known to other horse owners in his community to buy these types of horses and re-sell them to riding camps and trail riding programs.. He hired a double decker livestock truck to haul them home, and he was riding in the cab of the truck when the truck overturned, tumbled down an embankment, and crashed into a utility pole. A least 21 horses ended up dead at the scene and others were injured. Contrary to what you might think at first blush, the horses don't appear to have been bought for slaughter, we don't know if the rig was overweight (the driver said he'd gone through a weigh station in Indiana and was okay, but didn't have a log book to prove it), and you can haul private horses any way you like. (Even slaughter horses can be hauled in double deckers until 2007) While we haven't talked to the horse owner, we heard from secondary sources who have and they say he is devestated My heart truly bleeds for you Mr. Ramey (my words..not theirs). On top of that, irate people have been stopping by his farm to abuse him because they think he did something illegal or immoral. He didn't do anything illegal as far as we can tell, and morality is certainly personal enough not to inflict it on others without knowing the whole truth of the matter."

                                That's the gist and then the editor, Kimberly S. Herbert, goes on to make it sound like Ramey is rescuing horses from slaughter to fill his daughters dying wish. Then she discusses that we have the right to haul our horses any way we want...even in the bed of a pickup like they do out west. Then she talks of all the other accidents horses can have like falling through rotting trailer floors, jumping out windows and into mangers, etc.... She then says that hindsight is 20/20 and perhaps if we only knew something bad would happen, we might not do it insinuating that Ramey would not have used that double decker if he'd known what could happen. Well, someone on the 39 page thread I think saw him with one at another auction didn't they?

                                Nothing is mentioned about the bad loading of the larger horses on top nor the inhumaneness of hauling horses in a double decker...just that it's essentially none of our business because Ramey did not break the law. They also did not mention that there were two trailers and no discussion was given about how the still shaken and battered survivors were crammed into trailers to complete their journey to KY hours after the accident. They also neglected to give us any update on the condition of the horses that survived and what wonderful homes the Ramey's found for them in Kentucky...yeh right...the one's he dumped at an auction the next weekend?

                                I'm truly appalled that a magazine the caliber of The Horse would stoop so low as to endorse a practice as abhorrent as using a double decker to transport horses for any purpose...slaughter or not and defend an act as callous as this that Ramey does on a regular basis. I think I will let this subscription expire and plan to pen a letter to Ms. Herbert who is obviously wearing blinders when it comes to this atrocity.

                                Letters to reply to this article can be sent to The Horse, PO Box 919003, Lexington, KY 40591-9003 "

                                Comment


                                • I'm so glad to see this discussion come alive again.

                                  Lest we forget, 21 horses died a needless, horrible death.
                                  Joan S.
                                  Thoroughbreds in Motion
                                  Those Old Grand Prix Photos, Vol. II

                                  Comment


                                  • Aren't there days when you wish the freedom of speech didn't extend to morons??? :O)'

                                    I would hope that Ms. Reporterette learns the spell/grammar check function on the computer before she turns in her stories! Oh wait, the news editor takes care of those issues for her!

                                    Stacy

                                    Comment


                                    • A warning.

                                      If anyone on this thread suggests doing ANYTHING that is illegal, such as trespassing on private property, this thread will be removed from the BB in its entirety.

                                      You all are welcome to discuss the issue, but are absolutely not permitted to use the BB to encourage other people to break the law.

                                      Comment


                                      • There is now a cross with two horseshoes nailed to it at the accident site. Lest we forget.
                                        bryn

                                        Comment


                                        • Bryn I read what you had on the other thread about the truckers that were interviewed two weeks after the accident; stating the trailer was rocking back and forth and they did not think they would make it to their destination unless it was just around the corner. No wonder the thing wrecked! That is the problem with a double decker trailer like that; if you have a problem with the animals inside (and horses are more inclined to kick at each other, bite, etc than cattle or hogs) what can be done to assist them? In a "normal horse or stock trailer" you can unload or assist the animals.

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