24+ horses killed in Indiana truck wreck

[Nash]

honestly I agree! I think he feels bad because he lost so much money and that people are really watching him closely! The man makes my skin crawl

[DillansMom]

Unfortunately, I did not make it to the Sheperdsville sale on Monday...but my friend went and he gave me an update last evening.

He said there were some horses there that appeared to be injured, but they were between 6 mos. and one year old and there were approximately 12 of them. They were well bred horses and they sold early in the night for prices above killer prices. He said there were many horses there Monday...registered horses didn't begin selling until after 10 pm and sadly, he couldn't stay for the fast lane phase.

He walked around the grounds to see if he could spot the Ramey vehicles. There was A DOUBLE DECKER TRUCK on the premises. It wasn't marked at all and there were people crawling all over, so my friend didn't want to draw attention to himself by going and looking at the license plate in the dark. He had no idea if it arrived full, or left full, or both.

Equinelaundry and I have spoken by phone, and we have agreed to come up with an organized plan of action before heading off to the sale. So many people are being so helpful...It is our hope that we can start to attend the sales regularly and helping out some of these horses. I have some more homework to do. We'll keep everyone updated!

[needabreak]

It would be nice for the Ramey's friend to explain things - the truth would be refreshing.

" . . . The surviving horses from a trailer accident occurring in Indiana on Sept. 15 are all doing well according to Rusty Ford, equine programs manager for the Kentucky Department of Agriculture (KDA). Ford said, "I have spoken with Mr. Jodi Ramey on the telephone (on Sept. 22). . ."


{From THE HORSE article - Trailer Accident Survivors Doing Well - September 2004 Article # 2022}

I am still confused as to what happened to the foal . . . and what about these being "riding horses" . . . there are so many questions . . . it will be so nice for the Ramey's friend to join this thread . . . I can hardly wait . . .
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[blueboo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nash:


All horses are gone to auction except 2 that are still being doctored. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep - sure 'nough - we ALL buy "Riding" horses at one auction and trailer them hundreds of miles in a double decker semi truck (at 2.00/gal for fuel) to another "riding horse" auction......happens all the time.

Right.

Getting rid of the evidence more like - rather than actually getting caught red handed at the slaughterhouse gates with them - or spending the money to care for their injuries properly.

JMO.

God what a wonderful speciman of humanity (and I use the term humanity loosely)

[Nash]

Here is her email she sent me...less her name and email address....

" he doesn't have any left but 2, and of the 2, one is still being doctored, and don't know if the other will go back in a trailer. They did not go to the killer, I was at the auction. He just doesn't want to be bothered and wants this to die down, and I don't much blame him, but he got his self into this mess. I am not upset, and like I said, I don't agree either, and again, they did not go to slaughter. I would be interested to read more on what they are saying about him. Again, I don't agree with some of the things he has done, but I am not him, he has to sleep in his own bed, and I know what I do and haul with mine. We love horses, not just for a profit."

I did ask her what auction but haven't heard anything yet. And I'm not sure she will post here or not but I'm sure she'll read it. so you can try asking her a question. Her First name starts with M.

[lexie51]

I have to admit I know none of these people involved, but with everything I have read it just don't seem believiable to me that all but 2 of the horses are sold and none went to slaughter even though they were sold at a auction. There were many people from this forum that were willing to buy these horses why were none of you given the chance to buy? Think about it when hurt animals end up in the news no matter what kind of animal it is people tend to come from every where wanting to adopt or buy that animal. It just seems as though the same should have happened with these horses. They never should have went back to the auction. If they really honestly cared for those horses they would have sold them off their property and not some stupid horse auction. I also would love to know why the foal is not mentioned.....Donna

[perfectionist]

Was the foal finally left at the people's farm that assisted at the wreck?

I doubt they would want any of the forum enthusiasts to purchase the horses, regardless of the price they may have been willing to pay. Possibly because they have something to hide????

[A Splash of Color]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by perfectionist:
Was the foal finally left at the people's farm that assisted at the wreck? .... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

According to The Aurora Journal Press article,

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Michelle Benshaw’s husband, Chris Benshaw, said the month-old colt was among the survivors loaded on the three stock trailers which arrived about 6 p.m. A mare had let the colt nurse a little before the trailers left, he added. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> (emphasis added)

Also, although earlier articles said that Jodey Ramey left one horse behind in payment for damages and expended supplies, this same Journal Press article says that "The Benshaws also purchased one of the survivors, a registered 4-year-old buckskin quarterhorse now recovering in their barn." (emphasis added)

Wouldn't a truly compassionate person have made arrangements for the foal to be left with the nurse mare?

[perfectionist]

I had read somewhere that he did get left behind, and I also read about the news showing him being loaded on the truck again. Yes, he should have been left, and I thought he was.

Here is a two year old article about a "supposed to be rescue operation" dumping the horses at the auction:

http://www.newsnet5.com/News/1466142/detail.html

I noticed SUGARCREEK was mentioned, which is a supplier to the Bellville Plant in Texas.

[A Splash of Color]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DillansMom:
...He walked around the grounds to see if he could spot the Ramey vehicles. There was A DOUBLE DECKER TRUCK on the premises. It wasn't marked at all.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just so you'll know, according to the KY Secretary of State's database, in addition to RAMEY LIVESTOCK, LLC and RAMEY TRUCKING, LLC, both of Flemingsburg, there are three other trucking companies in Flemingsburg associated with the Ramey family. They are:
R and R Express, Inc.
D. Ramey Express, Inc. and
C & C Express, LLC

Also, keep an eye out for Bobby R. Lawson Trucking, Inc. out of Soldier, KY.

[Tuckaway1]

I've been reading up on the slaughter industry as much as it disturbs me, I have decided that ignorance isn't okay anymore. Some of my questions are: 1) Besides the Texas slaughterhouses that take live horses to be killed and exported for human consumption, how prevalent are other slaughter houses that take horses (that may have just died even?) to be processed for animal food. I read that horse meat is not found in dog food on the shelves anymore but that meat is sold to feed greyhounds at racetracks and for some zoo animals. I'm sure there is less profit in this (so less soley $ oriented people involved)but I wonder what the practices and regulations are and whether this is happening in many of our communities.
2) The method of killing horses at slaughter (and how they are transported and kept prior to slaughter) is clearly barbaric. I read that the practices in Europe are much less barbaric. What does this mean and what is the frequency of slaughter in European countries. Are the ex-race horses slaughtered en masse like they have been here? If they can be euthanized by an injection then is there legislation being sought to mandate this. I wonder what the general awareness is in these European countries about the horse meat they are eating.
3)If horse meat is considered a delicacy and sells for $15 a pound then is this partly why the PMU farms use draft horses because the foals go to feedlots and then are sold by weight for meat? In comparing it to the beef industry, there was selective breeding for producing meat, does anyone think this way about horse meat. I heard that it's barely profitable to ship TB's off the track all the way to Texas for slaughter. Besides being so inhumane it is such a waste!
Every time I look at my mare that would have gone to slaughter I think about all the pleasure I have taken in her company, viewing her spirit and beauty.

[needabreak]

Here is an excerpt from an article about the accident:

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?n...d=386538&rfi=6

" . . . “He said he was a horse trader ... his dad and his granddad had always done this,” said Ochs.

Many of the horses were thin, and the Rameys said some weren’t broken to ride, said Ochs.

The Rameys planned to make the horses healthy and train them, as they had with a load of horses they had taken to Minnesota and sold before buying these, said Ochs.

The truck that wrecked was one of two the Rameys were taking to Kentucky, said Holdcraft, adding the other truck, which also contained about 50 horses, had gone on.

Sources in Flemingsburg said the family has been trading horses for years, and currently are treating horses injured in the wreck.

Messages left at a listing for Jodey Ramey and his father, David Ramey, were not returned. . . ."

What happened to "make the horses healthy and train them"?
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[WildBlue]

Tuckaway1-

I can't answer most of your questions, but I can add this:

A year or two back, I was leafing through something that discussed various European breeds of horse. I was stopped cold by a sentence in the description of one of the smaller draft-type horses, basically saying that one of the breed's main virtues was how easily it reached marketable weight for the human consumption market.

I suspect some of them find us hypocritcal for eating cows but considering horses to be 'pets'.

[el paseo]

The Aurora Press article (with the photo of the fireman leading the jackass)

this is not a jackass that the firefighter is leading, it is a MULE

[needabreak]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>this is not a jackass that the firefighter is leading, it is a MULE <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

. . . however, weren't there were some jackasses at the scene? . . .

++++++++
I was thinking . . . I know some trainers who take untrained horses, give them "job skills" and send them on to better lives . . . but not 100 horses at a time.

These Rameys must be miracle trainers.
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[Kandace]

FWIW, Percherons are the (French) breed raised for human consumption -- sometimes that was their primary purpose and sometimes they gave a lifetime of work first.

The photos taken at Dallas Crown are certainly disturbing ... but is the process really any different for livestock that are slaughtered?

Kandace

[needabreak]

One difference is that horses might be more sensitive to the slaughter house environment.

There is a difference between horses and cattle.

Try lunging cattle, are they responsive to the trainer? Can you get cattle to do walk-trot-canter transitions? Are they eager to please and learn for you? Even if you could get a cow or bull to move around on a lunge line, are they intelligent enough learn to do a regular walk - extended walk - collected trot - working trot - extended trot - canter, and transition up and down from one to another as you ask? Horses are smarter than cows. Or, at least more wired to interact with people and be aware of their surroundings.

The slaughterhouse could be a more frightening experience to a horse than to a cow.

Last year I saw a program about dogs in England. Hunting hounds and how they are bred, trained, etc. Part of the program showed one of the horses that had been used for the hunt lying in the courtyard. It had been "put to sleep" - the method wasn't mentioned - and it was being cut up to be fed to the hounds.

One difference here in the USA is the great distances traveled by animals to get to the slaughter plant. And, sometimes the people transporting horses to slaughter are deceptive about what they do and how they do it.

For example, here is a man in Alberta, Canada who is currently running advertisements for horses:

$$TOP PRICE$ PAID$$ - FOR ALL TYPES OF HORSES - PLACEMENT AVAILABLE FOR RETIREMENT HORSES - IMMEDIATE PICKUP - LICENSED & BONDED CALL SCOTT [snipped]
from: http://www.buysell.com/root/Calgary/...0/results.html

or:

•TOP PRICES PAID for Saddle, Draft, Pony & Meat Horses. Meat Horses are put through humanely, by appointment. Also take older horses for retirement homes. Scott Irvine [snipped]
from: http://www.airdrieecho.com/classifieds.php?id=140

But if you look at the June 12, 2004 receipt for 45 horses delivered to the slaughterhouse in Texas, you will see that one of the horses is DOA (dead on arrival)
http://www.kaufmanzoning.net/horseme...terRecords.htm

It would be interesting to see Mr. Irvine's list of retirement homes. How kind of him to provide such a service.

Is it humane and "by appointment" for a horse to die on a truck of 45 horses? How long did it take to die?

or: http://www.kaufmanzoning.net/horseme...2004Simon1.jpg
lots of receipts
Look up this name on the internet.

Other horses in this small sample of receipts are DOA.

http://www.newsnet5.com/News/1466142/detail.html
A small time horse trader's deceptive method of acquiring horses is mentioned, the article also mentions Sugarcreek, which is also a name on the slaughterhouse receipts.

Or: http://www.dallasobserver.com/issues.../feature2.html

In Europe are horses transported across great distances in double-decker trailers? Even for a regular trailer, do horses going to slaughter in Europe travel such great distances as from Canada to Texas, or Minnesota to Texas? Are the temperature extremes in Europe like those in the USA?

I haven't read where these horses being hauled across - or up and down - the United States are all unloaded at times and fed and given water, and a chance to stretch their legs and take a nap. The actual slaughter process does not start when the horse arrives at the plant. There are hours, days, perhaps for some horses, weeks of torturous conditions.

There is deception and animal abuse in this process. Laws are ignored. Some law enforcers look away and some law makers provide for their personal interests first, and meanwhile horses go through a hellish experience on the way to slaughter.

The amount of suffering is inexcusable. It is not humane or quick like they say.

The deceptions used to get horses to slaughter and the secrecy in the slaughter process are needed because people don't like to see animals abused.

The people who haul horses to slaughter are just waiting for this blow over.
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[mnelson]

In the encylopedia it has a picture of a Belgium Brabant and it says this is the french horse that is bred for consumption.

[Marcella]

Needabreak:

Have you ever worked with cattle? Apparently not, based on your statements. Cattle are NOT stupid. If one spent as much time with a steer/cow/bull as one does with a horse working and schooling it, you can do quite a bit with them. They lead, tie, can do a cattle-trot and canter if you ask them. Do you ever see them half-passing in a field? No. Because they aren't built for that. You cannot expect an animal to do something they physically are not built for.

Horse slaughter is not that different from other livestock. Horses are livestock. They can be bought, sold, and eaten.

Don't make wild assumptions about things you don't know, which is something that has gone on way too much in this thread.

[needabreak]

There is a difference between horses and cattle.
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