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Euthanasia is never an option

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  • Originally posted by wildlifer View Post
    Nope. Many many MANY horses who have catastrophic leg injuries are euthanized on a regular basis. Neither I nor any of the reasonable folks in my region/sport I regularly interact with have an ounce of a problem with that.
    I agree with wildlifer. Many horsepeople considered it cruel to keep Barbaro going as long as they did.
    “Pray, hope, and don't worry.”

    St. Padre Pio

    Comment


    • More than likely, about fifty percent of you will decide I am a disgusting inhuman being, when i tell you that I slaughtered a horse once, I did not kill him, but i slaughtered him. We lived in an area in southern africa that was in a seven year drought. animals and people were starving, and we had to bring in all water in fourty four gallon drums in the truck. Feed was very hard to get, and of very poor quality.

      I went out to feed on morning, and one of our stallions was dead. The vet came to do a post mortem as he was insured, and he had ulcers, and one had ruptured. I am sure the poor quality feed and lack of grazing were cause.

      When the autopsy was over,and the vet left, my father suggested that i continue to slaughter him, and allow those who might want to have some meat, and so i did. He left for work, and so the task of skinning, and cutting up the meat fell to me.

      It took some time, but i was able to distribute portions to all those who wanted. word of mouth spread quickly and soon there was a long line. I kept a portion too, ( for Tom and the dogs)

      You want to know what was strange. I could not make myself touch a knife to the top of his neck or head. He was a beautiful beautiful horse, and even knowing that they would have taken it off and cooked every bit of him, i could not let anyone touch his head.

      I dug a hole in the ground, It was hard hard dirt, packed and rocky, but i dug a deep hole, and then put a cairn of rocks on top of it and then i cried.

      There is , i believe, nothing inherently wrong with slaughter. Using meat to feed people who are hungry is neither immoral nor unethical. Any slaughter, be it horse, chicken, cow, pig sheep or goat, should be a good life, followed by a good death.

      I believe that is a worthwhile thing to strive for.

      I do not expect everyone to agree with me, but i would wish that each person would consider carefully the ethics and sustainabillity of all life. Does our horse deserve twenty years of retired life, if you were balancing it against the possibility of feeding a starving child? Horse meat used to be the inexpensive alternative or people too poor to afford beef. just as mutton was.

      So what some of you are basically saying is, first, we should spend thousands of dollars annually to keep alive an expensive pet, while people starve, and secondly, no one, anywhere, should be allowed to slaughter horses, because they should starve while horses who are no longer useful for anything, should compete with them for food.

      Okay, now that we have the semantics out of the way, i realize that americans are so rich they can afford to be allergic to food, and obesity is a problem, and most people who have horse can reasonably afford to retire them. However to imagine that every person has that luxury is very small minded and short sighted.

      Comment


      • I think you will find that your comments in the last paragraph are a bit more judgmental of us than most of us would be of your actions in Africa.
        “Pray, hope, and don't worry.”

        St. Padre Pio

        Comment


        • Originally posted by chisamba View Post
          So what some of you are basically saying is, first, we should spend thousands of dollars annually to keep alive an expensive pet, while people starve, and secondly, no one, anywhere, should be allowed to slaughter horses, because they should starve while horses who are no longer useful for anything, should compete with them for food.

          Okay, now that we have the semantics out of the way, i realize that americans are so rich they can afford to be allergic to food, and obesity is a problem, and most people who have horse can reasonably afford to retire them. However to imagine that every person has that luxury is very small minded and short sighted.
          Okay, Ms. Judgy Pants, why don't you fill in the blanks yourself before you cast stones? You say you withheld 20 to 40 pounds of meat from starving people for sentimental reasons, and your point was...??

          First of all, this thread is about how to kill a horse and when, not about what to do with the carcass afterwords. Many of us have no issue with finding a use for the meat if we have to euthanize our horse, but unlike you, we would decline to feed meat deemed unsuitable for human consumption -- to humans. Perhaps you feel that because people are poor and live in a Third World Country they don't deserve the same standards of health as you, the owner of the farm/horse, receive? Are you perhaps suggesting we should mail the meat to Africa? How old are you?

          As for filling in the blanks; I imagine you can fill in the blanks yourself with costly luxury items:

          I spend thousands of dollars annually to __________________ , while people starve.

          Don't tell me you don't do ANY of the following, any one of which could cost thousands annually:

          -Own a computer, fax, printer, etc. and/or subscribe to the internet.
          -Own a car rather than use public transportation or a bicycle.
          -Own a luxury car.
          -Go to the movies.
          -Buy coffee or tea.
          -Eat out at restaurants.
          -Buy new, rather than used, clothing.
          -Frequent a beauty salon or barber.
          -Have manicures or pedicures done.
          -Own a television.
          -Own a cellular phone.
          -Own video game devices, a Kindle, or electronic equipment not required for work, including DVDs, videos, etc.
          -Go to nightclubs or bars.
          -Purchase alcohol.
          -Smoke cigarettes.
          -Use snuff or tobacco.
          -Use drugs.
          -Buy magazines.
          -Buy books.
          -Use air conditioning.
          -Own a motorcycle, boat or other recreational vehicle.
          -Travel by commercial airline.
          -Own electronic music devices and tapes, CDs, records, etc.
          -Purchase music online.
          -Subscribe to a cable or dish TV service.
          -Own a pet other than a horse.
          -Purchase luxury food items.
          -Purchase any junk food items, such as ice cream, potato chips, or pastries.
          -Drink soda.
          -Attend sporting events like soccer games, football, basketball, etc.
          -Buy toys for your children.
          -Attend concerts or plays.
          -Live in a house which is nicer than what is available at the bottom level of the market, both value-wise and size-wise.
          -Own a garage.
          -Own valuable furniture.
          -Indulge in collections or collectible items.
          -Go to theme/amusement parks.
          "Random capitAlization really Makes my day." -- AndNirina

          Comment


          • What people are forced to do in the face of starvation in a Third World country, or in time of war, has very little to do with our everyday choices.

            It would be my preference that neither horse nor child would have to starve; but maybe the parents should've considered THAT before CHOOSING to conceive that child, eh? Just like horse breeders have a CHOICE to produce, or not, more than the market will bear!

            Comment


            • Wow.

              So...on one thread you agreed with d_bald that it was all us horse buyers faults for creating the market and on this one you share your ignorance about the situation in Africa where birth control is culturally not done and frequently women have no choice but to bear the children of their husbands who demand sex.

              But hey, you know, as long as it was their choice!

              BTW, I am not commenting on the choice of a horse feeding anyone, just on this incredibly naive statement about another country's issues.

              Comment


              • I've never known one to come back 100% either. I've had 1 horse I euthanized because of colic. At the time it would have cost between 3-20k for the surgery and about a 25% chance she would make it through it.
                She was a great horse but I really couldn't justify that kind of money on 1 horse.

                Originally posted by RubyTuesday View Post
                Exactly. After this happened, someone I know whose sister has a breeding farm told me that one year, for a reason they have never been able to determine, they had six yearling-or-under youngsters all colic and have to go to surgery. None made it out alive. It had never happened before or since. But they spent a ton and had no horses come back home to show for it. I have yet to personally know someone who had a horse go for colic surgery of any persuasion and have their horse be able to come back to the full capability of what it was before it colicked. Others' mileage may vary, but all I have heard have been horror stories and repeat offenders that wound up back in the hospital again. Not to mention, again, this horse would have been VERY difficult if not just plain dangerous to convalesce. She was trying to rip or rub her IV out while sedated in the hospital.
                The problem with political jokes is that they get elected.
                H. Cate

                Comment


                • Back when I had one horse and was single, I did pay for colic surgery. I was in the military and she colicked while I was in training. My horse was 26 at the time. She did go back to full riding and then I retired her four years later. She lived to be 34. It was worth it to me. In fact, when I visited her in the university hospital, I noticed there were two types of horses in for colic surgery; old sentimental horses and babies. They did mention that the older horses fared better than the babies. Why? Probably because everything was far less scary to a steady older horse than a young spirited horse.

                  Last year, I opted to not do surgery on a mare that colicked. Now I have a family and other horses to think about. The necropsy showed that it was the right decision.
                  “Pray, hope, and don't worry.”

                  St. Padre Pio

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by PeteyPie View Post
                    Okay, Ms. Judgy Pants, why don't you fill in the blanks yourself before you cast stones? You say you withheld 20 to 40 pounds of meat from starving people for sentimental reasons, and your point was...??

                    First of all, this thread is about how to kill a horse and when, not about what to do with the carcass afterwords. Many of us have no issue with finding a use for the meat if we have to euthanize our horse, but unlike you, we would decline to feed meat deemed unsuitable for human consumption -- to humans. Perhaps you feel that because people are poor and live in a Third World Country they don't deserve the same standards of health as you, the owner of the farm/horse, receive? Are you perhaps suggesting we should mail the meat to Africa? How old are you?

                    As for filling in the blanks; I imagine you can fill in the blanks yourself with costly luxury items:

                    I spend thousands of dollars annually to __________________ , while people starve.

                    Don't tell me you don't do ANY of the following, any one of which could cost thousands annually:

                    -Own a computer, fax, printer, etc. and/or subscribe to the internet.
                    -Own a car rather than use public transportation or a bicycle.
                    -Own a luxury car.
                    -Go to the movies.
                    -Buy coffee or tea.
                    -Eat out at restaurants.
                    -Buy new, rather than used, clothing.
                    -Frequent a beauty salon or barber.
                    -Have manicures or pedicures done.
                    -Own a television.
                    -Own a cellular phone.
                    -Own video game devices, a Kindle, or electronic equipment not required for work, including DVDs, videos, etc.
                    -Go to nightclubs or bars.
                    -Purchase alcohol.
                    -Smoke cigarettes.
                    -Use snuff or tobacco.
                    -Use drugs.
                    -Buy magazines.
                    -Buy books.
                    -Use air conditioning.
                    -Own a motorcycle, boat or other recreational vehicle.
                    -Travel by commercial airline.
                    -Own electronic music devices and tapes, CDs, records, etc.
                    -Purchase music online.
                    -Subscribe to a cable or dish TV service.
                    -Own a pet other than a horse.
                    -Purchase luxury food items.
                    -Purchase any junk food items, such as ice cream, potato chips, or pastries.
                    -Drink soda.
                    -Attend sporting events like soccer games, football, basketball, etc.
                    -Buy toys for your children.
                    -Attend concerts or plays.
                    -Live in a house which is nicer than what is available at the bottom level of the market, both value-wise and size-wise.
                    -Own a garage.
                    -Own valuable furniture.
                    -Indulge in collections or collectible items.
                    -Go to theme/amusement parks.
                    I made no judgement about what you should do, i suggested that judging what others do when hungry, is immoral. Point out in my thread where i made any judgement at all? If you choose to be offended then i suggest you look at your conscience.

                    There was nothing "unfit" about the meat and yes, I was ridiculously sentimental about Fayids head. I do understand the sentimentality of not wanting to have something you loved so dearly "processed"



                    I do not expect anyone to give up their horses, or pets, I love mine and totally understand the need for having them in our life. I was suggesting that judging others who might make different choices when balancing the horse against their childrens well being, and when some make blanket statements like " nothing will ever convince me that slaughter is okay" is narrow and closed minded.

                    and at least three pages of this thread are dedicated to slaughter. I was unaware that you were the judge and jury about what may or may not be discussed on a thread.
                    Last edited by chisamba; Jun. 11, 2013, 10:34 AM. Reason: clarity and i found i had more to say

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by microbovine View Post
                      I think you will find that your comments in the last paragraph are a bit more judgmental of us than most of us would be of your actions in Africa.
                      perhaps you should point out what judgements i made? I have re read my thread three times and still fail to see them

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by chisamba View Post

                        I do not expect everyone to agree with me, but i would wish that each person would consider carefully the ethics and sustainabillity of all life. Does our horse deserve twenty years of retired life, if you were balancing it against the possibility of feeding a starving child? Horse meat used to be the inexpensive alternative or people too poor to afford beef. just as mutton was.

                        So what some of you are basically saying is, first, we should spend thousands of dollars annually to keep alive an expensive pet, while people starve, and secondly, no one, anywhere, should be allowed to slaughter horses, because they should starve while horses who are no longer useful for anything, should compete with them for food.

                        Okay, now that we have the semantics out of the way, i realize that americans are so rich they can afford to be allergic to food, and obesity is a problem, and most people who have horse can reasonably afford to retire them. However to imagine that every person has that luxury is very small minded and short sighted.
                        You ask what about your post is judgmental. Can you really not see it?

                        Unless you are living in poverty, you too live a life of luxury compared to someone starving in a third world country.

                        I don't really understand what your point is...you've chosen treating horses as companion animals as the luxury that is offensive, why not internet, cable TV, McMansions and gas guzzling cars to name a few.

                        Why horses? And why oh why would you want to feed veterinary pharmaceutical infused meat to the starving people in third world countries...if that's what you are implying?

                        Newsflash, no one was judgemental about what you posted. You assumed your post would be judged. I see no problem with starving people butchering a horse for food. There have been several instances (that we know of, I'm sure there are more) where starving people who were stranded cannibalized the bodies of those who died. I wouldn't judge them either.
                        Last edited by LauraKY; Jun. 11, 2013, 10:41 AM.

                        Comment


                        • ---" ...Why horses? And why oh why would you want to feed veterinary pharmaceutical infused meat to the starving people in third world countries...if that's what you are implying? ... :---

                          Really?

                          2% of horses are found to have any kind of residue, not even enough to make someone sick if they ate the whole horse AND that horse is not processed for food then anyway.

                          Why bring that kind of animal rights extremist drivel here, where we know better, as if it made any kind of sense?

                          While that rhetoric may work with the gullible, well, here, we know that animal rights propaganda for the nonsense that is.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                            ---" ...Why horses? And why oh why would you want to feed veterinary pharmaceutical infused meat to the starving people in third world countries...if that's what you are implying? ... :---

                            Really?

                            2% of horses are found to have any kind of residue, not even enough to make someone sick if they ate the whole horse AND that horse is not processed for food then anyway.

                            Why bring that kind of animal rights extremist drivel here, where we know better, as if it made any kind of sense?

                            While that rhetoric may work with the gullible, well, here, we know that animal rights propaganda for the nonsense that is.
                            Bluey, where oh where do you get your 2% numbers? Total BS. And stop calling anything that doesn't agree with you animal rights propaganda.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
                              You ask what about your post is judgmental. Can you really not see it?

                              Unless you are living in poverty, you too live a life of luxury compared to someone starving in a third world country.

                              I don't really understand what your point is...you've chosen treating horses as companion animals as the luxury that is offensive, why not internet, cable TV, McMansions and gas guzzling cars to name a few.

                              Why horses? And why oh why would you want to feed veterinary pharmaceutical infused meat to the starving people in third world countries...if that's what you are implying?

                              Newsflash, no was judgemental about what you posted. You assumed your post would be judged. I see no problem with starving people butchering a horse for food. There have been several instances (that we know of, I'm sure there are more) where starving people who were stranded cannibalized the bodies of those who died. I wouldn't judge them either.
                              i see this as choosing to be offended. I was arguing against the judgement that people have made against those who do not chose to retire their horse, but choose to euthanize instead. That was my point. and why horses? are HORSES not the topic of this bulletin board?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by chisamba View Post
                                i see this as choosing to be offended. I was arguing against the judgement that people have made against those who do not chose to retire their horse, but choose to euthanize instead. That was my point. and why horses? are HORSES not the topic of this bulletin board?
                                I'll bite. What does that have to do with starving people unless you are proposing to slaughter them and send the meat to starving people in other countries?

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by chisamba View Post
                                  perhaps you should point out what judgements i made? I have re read my thread three times and still fail to see them
                                  You are missing a major point. The anti euthanization groups equate killing Dobbin to killing Granny

                                  Life and death are fearful for Americans.

                                  Most Americans do not travel and are unable to see a picture beyond what they know through their family friends or a 100 mile radius.

                                  It would have been nice to have the dying donkeys in Cairo euthanized..or slaughtered..instead of dead bodies on the streets where they have droppedl. ..but when I jmentioned this an activist claimed they should never have had so many in the first place. She could NOT understand that no
                                  tourism equals no money equals no money for donkey feed when the family is starving.

                                  Ignore the attempts to make you feel guilty...

                                  Reading comments from these people of priviledge makes me wonder if they are just living the internet life they would like to have..
                                  The Elephant in the room

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
                                    Bluey, where oh where do you get your 2% numbers? Total BS. And stop calling anything that doesn't agree with you animal rights propaganda.
                                    The 2% came from the American vet Association and I posted the link on the Canada thread.

                                    Did you still want the recipe for Humble pie or would you like the one for eating crow

                                    Putting me on ignore is no excuse for your lack of facts.
                                    The Elephant in the room

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by PeteyPie View Post
                                      Okay, Ms. Judgy Pants, why don't you fill in the blanks yourself before you cast stones? You say you withheld 20 to 40 pounds of meat from starving people for sentimental reasons, and your point was...??

                                      First of all, this thread is about how to kill a horse and when, not about what to do with the carcass afterwords. Many of us have no issue with finding a use for the meat if we have to euthanize our horse, but unlike you, we would decline to feed meat deemed unsuitable for human consumption -- to humans. Perhaps you feel that because people are poor and live in a Third World Country they don't deserve the same standards of health as you, the owner of the farm/horse, receive? Are you perhaps suggesting we should mail the meat to Africa? How old are you?

                                      As for filling in the blanks; I imagine you can fill in the blanks yourself with costly luxury items:

                                      I spend thousands of dollars annually to __________________ , while people starve.

                                      Don't tell me you don't do ANY of the following, any one of which could cost thousands annually:

                                      -Own a computer, fax, printer, etc. and/or subscribe to the internet.
                                      -Own a car rather than use public transportation or a bicycle.
                                      -Own a luxury car.
                                      -Go to the movies.
                                      -Buy coffee or tea.
                                      -Eat out at restaurants.
                                      -Buy new, rather than used, clothing.
                                      -Frequent a beauty salon or barber.
                                      -Have manicures or pedicures done.
                                      -Own a television.
                                      -Own a cellular phone.
                                      -Own video game devices, a Kindle, or electronic equipment not required for work, including DVDs, videos, etc.
                                      -Go to nightclubs or bars.
                                      -Purchase alcohol.
                                      -Smoke cigarettes.
                                      -Use snuff or tobacco.
                                      -Use drugs.
                                      -Buy magazines.
                                      -Buy books.
                                      -Use air conditioning.
                                      -Own a motorcycle, boat or other recreational vehicle.
                                      -Travel by commercial airline.
                                      -Own electronic music devices and tapes, CDs, records, etc.
                                      -Purchase music online.
                                      -Subscribe to a cable or dish TV service.
                                      -Own a pet other than a horse.
                                      -Purchase luxury food items.
                                      -Purchase any junk food items, such as ice cream, potato chips, or pastries.
                                      -Drink soda.
                                      -Attend sporting events like soccer games, football, basketball, etc.
                                      -Buy toys for your children.
                                      -Attend concerts or plays.
                                      -Live in a house which is nicer than what is available at the bottom level of the market, both value-wise and size-wise.
                                      -Own a garage.
                                      -Own valuable furniture.
                                      -Indulge in collections or collectible items.
                                      -Go to theme/amusement parks.
                                      This is a funny post. Not relevant..but then you ARE from southern California...
                                      The Elephant in the room

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by OneGrayPony View Post
                                        Honestly Bluey I think the owners of Barbaro were stuck between a rock and a hard place. Had they not done anything, the mainstream media would have been freaking out about racing even worse than it normally does. By doing something, they put that horse through more pain.

                                        I'm sure it pained them to do it. But I don't think they did it because they wanted to.
                                        I think is probably right, plus the owners being slightly more sentimental than some race owners. It probably would have been best to make a few efforts and quietly put him down after people stopped paying attention (though the whole cult thing made that difficult. That was just WEIRD. I don't get what was so captivating or special, but I'm as happy watching claimers at Parx on TVG as Triple Crown fluff on conventional network TV.) Especially after it was clear he was never going to be even pasture-sound.
                                        Author Page
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                                        Steampunk Sweethearts

                                        Comment


                                        • I think is probably right, plus the owners being slightly more sentimental than some race owners. It probably would have been best to make a few efforts and quietly put him down after people stopped paying attention (though the whole cult thing made that difficult. That was just WEIRD. I don't get what was so captivating or special, but I'm as happy watching claimers at Parx on TVG as Triple Crown fluff on conventional network TV.) Especially after it was clear he was never going to be even pasture-sound.
                                          I know - I'm wondering if he'd not broken down if anyone would have thought about him at all :-/ It was strange. People are weird.

                                          Comment

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