Agree with taking out the barefoot part. Not everyone cares or advocates barefoot trimming, and it's not important or integral to the subject matter. Not something I would sign as it is... His name, according to the website is Champagne Watchout, not Watchtower. Lots of good ideas here. I do think the racism issue with that particular horse is important, Oprah is big on that from what I've seen.
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This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.
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The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.
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Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.
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Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.
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Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.
Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.
Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.
Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.
Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.
Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.
Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.
5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.
6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.
If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.
Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.
7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.
8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.
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Letter to Oprah POSTED HERE FOR REVIEW
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William Shatner shows American Saddlebreds not TWh's. Hmmmm not sure this letter is that great. I think you should call PETA.Originally posted by Showponymom Aefvue Mid Atlantic Division:
I may be wrong but on the sore winners link isn't that a picture of William Shatner? I know he shows saddle seat. If it is it would be great for Oprah to have him on and pick his mind on the Big Lick.
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I agree with taking out the barefoot part, since it isn't relevant & it's kind of on the side of extreme.
Also, make sure the stallion's name is spelled correctly.
William Shatner has Saddlebreds. If he is involved with TWH's, it's not what he is known for & he doesn't necessarily have a good rep.
I think the letter is on the right track. But don't call PETA!
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I think this letter is an amazing idea, and I think you've done a great job. AS far as suggestions go, I'd second everything chai said.
I wonder if there would be any way to make an online "petition," so that we could all sign saying that we agree with the letter. Then we could send a printed copy of all of the signatures with the letter, perhaps?Proud owner of Race for the Stars (aka Spirit), OTTB!
"You can lead a horse to water, but if you can teach him to roll over and float on his back, then you got something."
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I'm glad you took the initiative and wrote a letter.
I think you should explain a little bit more about the horrible methods that trainers accomplish this: not just posting links, but actually EXPLAINING what goes on and WHY this is bad. Appeal to her/their emotions, a little. Appeal to her involvement as a TWH owner. The links are great supplemental info, but I think you need to explain this more in the actual paragraph other than "what is soring? see __."
I also agree with dizzywriter: WHY is this relevant? On the TWH scale, and also on the broader scale of horses, and pets in general?
I, too, would cut the movie part. It seems irrelevant; right now, we're trying to bring attention to horrors of the Big Lick world, not make a movie about it.
You could say "this is a very powerful/controversial/upsetting ISSUE" (not "story" when you lead into a movie) and there, implore her assistance. Ask her to bring some attention to this issue.
Being concise is important.
Also, I think it would be fantastic if we could figure out a way to have us all sign our names/locations electronically. But, at the same time, it's easy to think one person just made up 500 names. So, I'm wondering if maybe we could do both; submit this with a bunch of signatures, then possibly have lots of us send a more generic form of this letter?
I'm proud there are so many concerned COTHers out there, and we're trying to make a difference.
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There is a place to post online pettions. A person can post any they want. thats the problem though because its stupid what some people put petitions up for. Unfortunatly the important ones get lost in the rubble of it. I will try and find that site. But I dont see it as a good place to put it. WOuld maybe get more signatures though. There are probably more than the one place Ive seen.
I wonder if there would be any way to make an online "petition," so that we could all sign saying that we agree with the letter. Then we could send a printed copy of all of the signatures with the letter, perhaps?
Edited... Here is one. but like the one I metioned its pretty stupid stuff. I suggest keeping it reputable and not putting on these type things.
Edited again Forgot to put this link petition spot
I loooked a few that came up on my search and unfortunatly they are all pretty much like this.
Maybe hang them in places all around all of us for people to sign. tack stores, farms, agriculture ext., feed stores, etc.~~~I\'ve been feeding Flax and Sunnies for some time now. But I read the whole sunnies/flax thread anyway.~~~
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Well, hey--nothing like critique, eh.
I agree that perhaps I should leave the parts about ME out, however, I resent being called a 'fanatic'. I can call myself this, but barefoot trimming is as mainstream as treeless saddles and sports massage. Neh neh neh!
To the advertising professional whose suggestions basically rewrote, restructured, and refocused, the entire letter--perhaps you'd like to write the letter? I would gladly step back and bow to your far-superior ability to 'sell' the whole thing to Oprah!
I caught the "Watchout" "Watchtower" snafu too late--y'all caught it before I could correct it in the original post. I was just having a 'jimmie hendrix' moment there...
I would like to reiterate that the one thing that I would like to see happen is the recognition of the superior quality of the UN-performance shod TWH. I think the story of the Jacksons' stallion Champagne Watchout, and the treatment the Jacksons' received by the TWHBEA and the nincompoops at the 1997-1998-1999 Celebration is the story that could possibly galvanize an anti-big lick movement. It could educate animal lovers everywhere--a very big demographic, yes?--about the true nature of the BL performances they see at their local horseshows.
Remember 'Kiko' the killer whale?
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I dont have many comments on this as I am just reading about it and am kind of in that "Whaaa?" stage.
I have some questions.. I watched the videos on that link.. ALL 3. I understand that Watchout is flat shod and the others are not. So, my question is, why when they did transitions, when you could see the other horses in the show, they stopped before proceeding to the next downward gait - from running to flat, theyd stop. Or canter to flat, theyd stop. But Watchout had very nice transitions and didnt stop in between. Maybe I just dont understand the classes?
Also, why was Watchout the only one I saw on the video "parked out" while the judges came up to see the horses unsaddled?
Im sure my opinions of these Big Lick horses meshes with the majority of everyones on this post. Looks painful, unnatural, like their hind legs CRAWL along like some misshapened animal or something. I cant imagine they stay sound in the hocks and backs much less anywhere else for very long if at all.
~~~~~~~~~
Member of the ILMD[FN]HP Clique, The Florida Clique, OMGiH I loff my mares, and the Bareback Riders clique!
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Kat- I wasn't trying to insult you, and did not mean for it to come across that way. But I do feel that saying that "No horses should have shoes" makes you appearto be a fringe fanatic to the reader, and therefore less credible. Not that you are, but that to the reader it can be construed as such. And you are trying to not alienate the reader, therefore it is better left off.
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Ain't no perhaps about it- this letter is too long and reeks of a 14 YO who's all about come see us and see how cool we are at COTH!!!!
Put this letter on a serious diet- and send a copy to her, and to FOSH and others- remember- you and TS don't have to recreate the wheel if you don't want to. You aren't the first to be horrified.
I do remember Kiko_ but nothing about the people behind the story. Remember that- you, COTH, TS, etc are NOT the story. The Horse Is.
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I think I forgot to say in my initial comment that I did love the letter as it was.
I just thought that if you wanted to rework the letter, chai's suggestions were good ones.
However, as far as parts that I loved, I thought the websites that you linked to were great. The second one made me incredibly sad and angry at the same time, which is in my opinion a good thing for this. I also think Watchout's story is great, because IMO he looks much better than the other "big lick" horses. I think the way you wrote the article - with an informal and slightly humerous tone - will work well to keep her interested.
I appologize for not putting these types of comments in my first comment.
As far as the petition idea that I had, I'll admit that I'd have no idea what to do to get one off the ground. I had merely seen them used before, and thought it might be a good way to collect signatures from the group. Are there any other ways to collect out signatures?Proud owner of Race for the Stars (aka Spirit), OTTB!
"You can lead a horse to water, but if you can teach him to roll over and float on his back, then you got something."
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Kat, don't let the critics stop you. You write from the heart, this is an emotional issue. Don't apologize for your passion.
You know in your heart that you are doing a good thing. Don't stop and overanalyze and second guess. Just do it."My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." ~ Jack Layton
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Kat - thank you so much, you did an amazing job!! I have to disagree with whoever said that a movie would never be made about this. Trust me - I have seen movies made about MUCH stupider subject matter than this. So no worries there!
And I agree with hitch. This is one seriously emotional issue and it is that deep down passion that WILL touch Oprah's heart and soul. She is a sensitive lady who is tender and compassionate. She loves to cry, and she loves to look out for the little guy. PLEASE DO NOT give up on this!!! Critique is good, but PLEASE don't let anyone quench the fire with which you've written this letter. Your words are smart and WILL be noticed. I promise.
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I would ask you to please not attempt to speak for everyone on the board(s). While I seriously doubt that there _are_ people who would defend these actions, as you yourself said, it's an eclectic group. Make it a petition, and like-minded people can sign it. But don't claim you speak for everyone here.I would like this letter to be presented as if EVERYONE WHO BELONGS TO CHRONICLE OF THE HORSE had written this letter to you,
Thanks.
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I would ask you to please not attempt to speak for everyone on the board(s). While I seriously doubt that there _are_ people who would defend these actions, as you yourself said, it's an eclectic group. Make it a petition, and like-minded people can sign it. But don't claim you speak for everyone here.Originally posted by paw:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I would like this letter to be presented as if EVERYONE WHO BELONGS TO CHRONICLE OF THE HORSE had written this letter to you,
Thanks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Leave me off the note to Oprah as well. Maybe she can get world peace while she fixes what is wrong with your current concern.
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At the risk of pissing off many people I offer this amended version, plus a few thoughts.
Thoughts first:
1) Have you checked w/ the powers that be at COTH to see if this is OK by them?
2) Do you know the history of the breed? Do you remember *why* it was developed in the 1st place, and why it was called, at one point, the "Plantation Walker"? Just think about the spin that could be put on this...
And the amended letter, which I think still needs some paring:
Dear...
I belong to an online bulletin board community named after the 70-year-old publication The Chronicle of the Horse Our community spans all parts of the world, and posters come from all sorts of backgrounds, jobs, ages, and incomes. On COTH we discuss horse care, training, different disciplines; any and all things ‘horse’. We seek to become roundly educated for the betterment of our relationship with our partners, our horses.
Every once in a while an issue is brought before the board community that raises our collective concern, and that recently happened with the posting by one member regarding the plight of the “Performance†Tennessee Walking Horses. She brought our attention to the issues related to ‘enhancing’ their natural gaits by use of caustic chemicals and heavy chains applied to their front pasterns. She posted these three websites that dealt with the ‘Big Lick’ Tennessee Walking Horses.
What is Soring?
http://www.silverphoenixranch.com/in...s/Page1156.htm
More than Sore
http://www.friendsofsoundhorses.org/...0big%20lick%22
Sore Winners
http://www.friendsofsoundhorses.org/...ick%20abuse%22
This also brought up a discussion about the injurious and visually obscene built-up shoes that are used on the Big Lick horses. ‘Big Lick’ refers to the exaggerated gait the Tennessee Walker displays when shown in the devices referred to above. Many who know horses will tell you: this gait is the result of continuous pain and repeated abusive training.
This "Big Lick" is a travesty of the natural gaits that the Tennessee Walker was originally bred for, gaits which are easy for the horse and comfortable for the rider. The Walker’s natural gaits are easily attainable through gentle training, applied appropriately to the horse’s level of maturity, and good rider skills.
I must clarify that we have NO issue with those who flat-shoe their walkers correctly for competition. Our distaste and anger is for the big-name, big-show breeders AND the TWHBEA (Tennessee Walking Horse Breeders and Exhibitors Association) and it’s blatant disregard for the Horse Protection Act, and the susequent discrimination against those who do NOT subscribe to the painful shoeing and training necessitated by Performance-class shows.
More information can be found here:
Website on Horse Protection Act & Amendments
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ac/hpainfo.html
A decision by the Texas Court of Appeals - 957 S.W.2d 121 - November 11, 1997 - Wherein a ‘trainer/breeder’ attempted to overthrow the Horse Protection Act/Association. Information contained is about soring of the Ten Walking Horse: http://tarlton.law.utexas.edu/dawson...l/rrr_farm.htm
Ms Winfrey, I believe the best champion of the Tennessee Walking Horse in it’s near-natural state is the young stallion Champagne Watchout, shown by Jennie and Nathanael Jackson, and ridden by their 16 year old daughter, Natalie. I will refer you to their website wherein you will find a page devoted to the 1997 to 1999 Hell-in-Tennessee they endured at the ungentle racist hands of the TWHBEA in their lawful attempts to show ‘CW’ in the Tennessee Walking Horse National Celebration, specifically the WORLD GRAND CHAMPIONSHIP CLASS.
http://www.walkinonranch.com/1999Celebration.html
A very helpful series of videos illustrating the issue can be seen here:
http://www.walkinonranch.com/Celebration.html
The ‘Big Lick’ industry is BIG in Tennessee, and it is apparent that Big Lick makes money. However, so many times in history it is by the blood and suffering of others that the few prosper. We think that the story of Natalie Jackson and the Tennessee Walker stallion, Champagne Watchout, would do much to educate people about the plight of the Tennessee Walkers in the ‘Big Lick’ industry, if presented well. Too many think the TWH Big Lick performance horses are living the ‘good life’ when indeed; theirs is a short, violent existence, and a true testament of man’s inhumanity to those who depend upon him for their very lives.'
COTH has an eclectic and horse-passionate membership, who make it a community of great warmth, much fun, and lots of education. We ask for your consideration in giving the Jacksons’ and Champagne Watchtower a venue in which to lay bare the ugliness and rot within the TWHBEA, as well as an alert to the mindless cruelty that is the performance Tennessee Walker’s lot.
Respectfully Yours,....
edited to add -
I am no fan of the Big Lick, but I'm not sure that this route is a good idea. Despite the fact that I've been b@llsy enough to rewrite Kat's letter, I don't want it to speak for me either.
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I wouldn't include the part that says the writer does not believe that ANY horse needs shoes. Seems drastic and I believe many horse people wouldn't agree - need to come across as more moderate rather than extreme yourself.
Also, I would condense the letter and make it more concise. Good Luck with the letter.Platinum Equestrian - Florida, USA
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Kat the Horse -- I give you a lot of credit for taking on this project. I think you've made a good start. I myself will likely support this letter when it goes out, I would of course want to read the final version first.
I agree though, that it's not really fair to state or imply that everybody on CoTH supports this letter. Each poster should have the right to "sign" it or not (or however it ends up being done), depending on their feelings on the matter. Also, though I do ride barefoot horses, and think it's great if horses can go barefoot, I don't have problems with people shoeing their horses, and any impression that the letter writer (or writers as the case may be) don't support shoeing at all may undermine the argument. Especially since Champagne Watchout does wear shoes, just not pads.
Otherwise, I agree, using Champagne Watchout as an example is great - he clearly looks like what a properly trained unpadded TWH should (though I am no expert).
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