• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

All these "stolen" horses - why do thieves WANT them?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • All these "stolen" horses - why do thieves WANT them?

    Seriously. Why would someone steal a horse? You can go on any craigslist in the country and pick up a trailerful of FREE horses. Why in the world would someone go through the trouble of STEALING a horse?
    I realize that I'm generalizing here, but as is often the case when I generalize, I don't care. ~ Dave Barry

  • #2
    I have wondered that too. But people also steal dogs, relatively valueless dogs, sometimes right out of yards. I don't get it.

    Comment


    • #3
      They can haul them off to an auction and flip them for a profit. No they probably won't get a lot of money but when it's a free horse it's all profit. Minus the gas. Or maybe they want a horse!

      They may be by a place they can ship them off via a kill buyer for a quick profit but most horses that are stolen are nicer horses that people can move out of the area and resell.
      Every mighty oak was once a nut that stood its ground.

      Proud Closet Canterer! Member Riders with Fibromyalgia clique.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by alg0181 View Post
        I have wondered that too. But people also steal dogs, relatively valueless dogs, sometimes right out of yards. I don't get it.
        Those are sold to research facilities. along with a lot of the ones advertised and given away free.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by cholmberg View Post
          Those are sold to research facilities. along with a lot of the ones advertised and given away free.
          There is enough need for dogs at research facilities that it's profitable to steal them?

          That is truly horrifying.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by summerhorse View Post

            They may be by a place they can ship them off via a kill buyer for a quick profit but most horses that are stolen are nicer horses that people can move out of the area and resell.
            well the fact is that horses are bringing .20/lb in Mexico at the plant...no injuries,no founder no stallions and they must weigh more than 1000lb. You can only haul 20 some at a time in a 53ft gooseneck and diesel is 3.25/gal...your whole load before expenses is worth $4000...that's it

            so no one is buying horses for any quick profit anywhere right now...

            Tamara in TN
            Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
            I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by alg0181 View Post
              There is enough need for dogs at research facilities that it's profitable to steal them?

              That is truly horrifying.
              IDK that this truly happens that often any more...a lot of research requires dogs in perfect health with known histories...there are companies that breed beagles specifically for research.
              Proud member of the "I'm In My 20's and Hope to Be a Good Rider Someday" clique

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by cholmberg View Post
                Those are sold to research facilities. along with a lot of the ones advertised and given away free.
                Wrong. All research facilities have to get animals from an approved source.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Tamara in TN View Post
                  well the fact is that horses are bringing .20/lb in Mexico at the plant...no injuries,no founder no stallions and they must weigh more than 1000lb. You can only haul 20 some at a time in a 53ft gooseneck and diesel is 3.25/gal...your whole load before expenses is worth $4000...that's it

                  so no one is buying horses for any quick profit anywhere right now...

                  Tamara in TN
                  Since when are they that particular about what goes to slaughter?

                  And $4,000 for maybe 2 days work? Sounds like a quick profit to me.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The $4000 is BEFORE expenses of getting them to the slaughterhouse.

                    Still, not to deny there is a market. The question remains tho, why go through the risk of stealing when there are so many to be had for free or very little without the legal risk?

                    I suspect many times it is that somebody wants to hurt the horse owner. Of the better-trained or bred horses, somebody may want it for themselves. Buying for resale is far from a sure thing in this economy, not to mention the legal risk! Other times it may be the ease of a group of horses loaded quickly, all at once from a pasture. And then there is no overestimating criminal stupidity...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Who says YOU (as a thief) are the one taking them to the slaughter house as opposed to auction??? I would venture to guess most are crossing borders and selling at auction, which definitely might be worth the quick cash. Otherwise, no idea here either. Someone should do a study ;P

                      As for dogs, it's been in our local big-city papers to keep an eye on your dog lest it be stolen and used for training fighting dogs (where these fighting dogs are, I have no clue, I didn't even know we HAD fighting rings). Bully and bully-type breeds ie, Dobes, Rotties, GS's, Pitties and like as well as crosses of course, are particularly targeted and used. They are somehow used to teach the fighter prospect how to fight.
                      ....horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
                      ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Either they are fascinated by someone's particular horse, or they want to hurt the owner.

                        Sometimes, these situations are really about buyers and sellers--ownership disputes, leases gone bad, etc.

                        The woman who stole my Calvin, and sold him to an unsuspecting girl in Canada, did it for profit, pure and simple. She violated the lease contract, lied to me and without some damn quick detective work by me and other COTHrs from Canada, I'd never have recovered him. People should have a clear set of photos and a written description of their horses. In WA a brand inspection card (think ID card for horses) on file with the state is super helpful--they have a livestock theft investigator who can do things regular citizens cannot--like arrest folks, when the DA and cops tell you "it's a civil matter". Huh. I guess horse thieves here aren't the same as car thieves....
                        Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dispatcher View Post
                          Since when are they that particular about what goes to slaughter?
                          And $4,000 for maybe 2 days work? Sounds like a quick profit to me.

                          since they can be and if they fall outside the approved specs they send them back to you,normally 300 lbs tighter than they arrived.. ask a real kill buyer/dealer and not one of the propaganda machines or flippers working the internet and they will tell you the same thing

                          $4,000 for 20 head does not include the fuel at $3.25 gal (at 7mpg) to get them to the crossing...those fat slick perfectly healthy 1000plus horses...

                          Tamara in TN
                          Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                          I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by naturalequus View Post
                            As for dogs, it's been in our local big-city papers to keep an eye on your dog lest it be stolen and used for training fighting dogs (where these fighting dogs are, I have no clue, I didn't even know we HAD fighting rings). Bully and bully-type breeds ie, Dobes, Rotties, GS's, Pitties and like as well as crosses of course, are particularly targeted and used. They are somehow used to teach the fighter prospect how to fight.
                            My understanding has always been that they want more submissive dogs for their fighters to tear apart. Maybe they slowly work up from totally submissive to something that shows a little fight? IDK, I dont understand the mindset at all.

                            I would think that people who steal horses, either do it because they want the horse, want to hurt the owner, or want to make a quick buck at auction. Stealing them is more of a guarantee then having to sweet talk an owner looking for a "good home".

                            LBR
                            I reject your reality, and substitute my own- Adam Savage

                            R.I.P Ron Smith, you'll be greatly missed

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tamara in TN View Post
                              since they can be and if they fall outside the approved specs they send them back to you,normally 300 lbs tighter than they arrived.. ask a real kill buyer/dealer and not one of the propaganda machines or flippers working the internet and they will tell you the same thing

                              $4,000 for 20 head does not include the fuel at $3.25 gal (at 7mpg) to get them to the crossing...those fat slick perfectly healthy 1000plus horses...

                              Tamara in TN

                              Not sure I believe that because ponies, foals and young horses go to slaughter. And they would be under 1,000 pounds. But since I don't know any kill buyers, I can't say for sure.

                              Just seems from reading what others have posted on other threads regarding slaughter horses, that a discerning eye for the animals is not needed.

                              Don't mean to side track the thread...

                              But I do believe there is money to be made in the slaughter pipeline from a stolen horse. Whether the horse is sold at a low end auction or directly to a kill buyer, there is quick money to be made.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Dispatcher View Post
                                Not sure I believe that because ponies, foals and young horses go to slaughter. And they would be under 1,000 pounds. But since I don't know any kill buyers, I can't say for sure.

                                .
                                the people we know thru our business say that there is a bigger market for feeding big cats in private zoos than any slaughter houses...esp ponies(smaller equines)...one man whom I have never had reason to doubt told me of selling about 400 head of ponies over 5 years for just such a thing....

                                Tamara in TN
                                Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                                I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Here's a scary scenerio for you and you would be shocked how often it's done right here in Texas (every Weekend). Haul trailer down road at night on Wed & Thursday pick up however many will fit and run them to the auction on Friday night at House A. Dealers pick up horses at House A and flip them at an auction less than 100 miles the other direction at House B (Sat). (If your lucky they've also picked up forged papers.) Dealer picks up horses at House B and sells the papers for those going to Mexico on Sunday. That's right folks your pony got flipped 3 times and is still slaughter bound all in less than 72 hours. It's done ALL the time. Those that make it to the sale barn are listed within 48 hours of purchase and usually gone by the next week. If not then round 2. How would I know this routine? Except for the slaughter and theft I did it for YEARS! I dealt only in regestered horses and no I didn't buy or sell papers for them but yeah start with 10 horses and end up with 2 for the lot for retrain. Bought the horses for pennies on the lbs (Thank you cattle auctions) and then trained them and sold them for hundreds or thousands more. Even with facebook, police, & BB you'd be hard pressed to beat that time line. It can be done but it's difficult.
                                  Adoring fan of A Fine Romance
                                  Originally Posted by alicen:
                                  What serious breeder would think that a horse at that performance level is push button? Even so, that's still a lot of buttons to push.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Tamara in TN View Post
                                    well the fact is that horses are bringing .20/lb in Mexico at the plant...no injuries,no founder no stallions and they must weigh more than 1000lb. You can only haul 20 some at a time in a 53ft gooseneck and diesel is 3.25/gal...your whole load before expenses is worth $4000...that's it

                                    so no one is buying horses for any quick profit anywhere right now...

                                    Tamara in TN
                                    Not here. I had the opportunity to have this very conversation with law enforcement a year or so ago.............

                                    The concern here is that we are only an hour from the border and 2 hours from the closest plant. We were warned about thieves taking horses out of pastures at night and heading straight for teh border. Slaughter trailers are not checked, only sealed. The horses require no paperwork. They can be dead before you realize that your pasture is empty. The officer told me that they will target higher end barn because a) the horses are fat b) they are often turned out in large groups with halters ON c) they will load quietly without a fuss d) no one thinks much of a truck and trailer pulling in to a horse farm
                                    Holly
                                    www.ironhorsefrm.com
                                    Oldenburg foals and young prospects
                                    LIKE us on Facebook!

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Iron Horse Farm View Post
                                      Not here. I had the opportunity to have this very conversation with law enforcement a year or so ago.............

                                      The concern here is that we are only an hour from the border and 2 hours from the closest plant. We were warned about thieves taking horses out of pastures at night and heading straight for teh border. Slaughter trailers are not checked, only sealed. The horses require no paperwork.
                                      you would be correct on the CDN border...our people deal with the MX border only...a long long drive from anywhere...

                                      Tamara in TN
                                      Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                                      I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Tamara in TN View Post
                                        you would be correct on the CDN border...our people deal with the MX border only...a long long drive from anywhere...

                                        Tamara in TN
                                        I would think she would be correct--she wrote that she lives an hour from the border and has talked to law enforcement.

                                        Your kill buyers in Tennessee only deal with 1,000 pound horses and only ship to Mexico? See how different it is in other parts of the country?

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X