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My daughter is being targeted in the barn... teen pranks on 10 yr old...

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  • #81
    MaggyMay...you are correct. Teens do not usually make good friends for little kids. I do think the difference between you and your brothers and this situation here would have to be that your brothers probably DID care if you actually got hurt. My older sisters tormented me relentlessly. But if another child tried that, my sisters would pummel them. But I think we're agreement on the most important point...SUPERVISE these kids.

    Look at it like this. You have a group of broodmares. Most foals are born in March or April. You have one dear little foal born in, say, July. Once turned out with the group, mama of little foal goes off and eats grass, paying no attention to dear little foal getting abused by the aggressive older foals. Do you think mama is a bad mama for not protecting her foal? I do. And is the behavior of the older foals out of character and considered bad? Nope. Among others their age, size,etc., it's completely normal behavior. But unless mama starts moving in a setting things straight as far as her foal is concerned, you'd probably move them to another pasture, correct?

    Comment


    • #82
      I can't believe threads like this are allowed to turn this ugly, but God help you if you start a thread that doesn't have the word "horse" in the OP.

      Several have offered helpful advice, and several assume that their life experience=her life experience (good or bad). The audacity of some of the comments is jaw-dropping. But hey, it's still about horses, and no foul language was used, so it's okay.

      The thread is certainly an...enlightening...read, though. JSG...I advise you to back away from the thread slowly and get the advice from those who know you and your child.

      I used to think the world was against me. Now I know better...some of the smaller countries are neutral.
      SA Ferrana Moniet 1988-2011
      CP Trilogy 2002-2015
      My bloggity blog: Hobby Horse: Adventures of the Perpetual Newbie

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      • #83
        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SuperPony:
        A 10 year old is a fifth grader, not a fourth grader, by the way.

        <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

        When I was 10 I was in SIXTH grade, but I'm special!

        "I am not afraid of storms, for I am learning to sail my ship."
        -Louisa May Alcott
        "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." ~ Jack Layton

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        • #84
          Robby johnson - I agree my tone was a bit harsh, but I was using your words to JSG, which I found incredibly insensitive. I also agree that you have a right to your opinions, which speak volumes.

          Comment


          • #85
            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SuperPony:
            A 10 year old is a fifth grader, not a fourth grader, by the way.

            !<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


            No, they are not. I have a son who is in fifth grade and will turn 11 in another week. He is the oldest kid in his fifth grade class. It's a "5 by Sept 1st" thing to get into kindergarten, so 10 year olds are in 4th.

            They are little kids-far different emotionally, hormonally, and physically from middle and high schoolers.

            Elippses Users Clique........Co-Founder Occularly Challenged Equine Support Group


            "And how's that working for ya?" Dr. Phil

            "What the fuh?" Robby Johnson

            Ellipses users clique ...
            TGFPT,HYOOTGP

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            • #86
              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by maggymay:
              ESG- what an incredibly bizarre presumption

              My point is that young teens do not generally make good friends for little kids.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

              I agree, young teens don't make good friends for younger kids, but that isn't the case or the issue here. The teens shouldn't be allowed to be torturers, either. If the 10 year old is that obnoxious (and I'm not saying she is), the teens still have no right to pick on her, especially in a group! If the 10 year old is that much of a problem, the teens should go to the trainer and tell her to get the kid to back off. Since that hasn't happened, I'm thinking that it isn't the ten year old's fault, and the teens just enjoy having a live punching bag/whipping doll. NOT appropriate behaviour, for ANYONE, of ANY AGE.
              In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
              A life lived by example, done too soon.
              www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

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              • #87
                i think it needs to be said here that the victim is NEVER to blame for getting bullied (insert beaten, raped, etc...). if someone makes you angry, you DON'T hurt them or make them uncomfortable. it is simply not what civilized people do. i don't think it is JSG's fault, nor is it the trainer's. the older kids need to be sat down and spoken to if their behavior really is bothering JSG's daughter--not to mention the fact that they are not properly caring for her pony, which is their responsibility. regardless of age or situation, JSG's daughter has as much right to be at the barn, to do well at shows, etc., and does NOT deserve to be bullied.

                Comment


                • #88
                  I agree that the pummeling that we all got from our siblings is not comparable here. That's a family dynamic thing, and siblings go overboard on the abuse that they will give and accept.

                  I concur on the supervision thing-the child should be at the barn the times she needs to groom and ride and then be gone. It's not a day long babysitting thing-plus expecting these girls to be nice may be presumptous.

                  I do however also agree with the poster who said that presuming the big kids to help your daughter with the dressage test was too much on your part. That was not their job, and i fyour daughter bragged to them after they wouldn't help that she did better than they did-well, that just fans the flames of hatred or at least ill-will.

                  Good luck

                  Elippses Users Clique........Co-Founder Occularly Challenged Equine Support Group


                  "And how's that working for ya?" Dr. Phil

                  "What the fuh?" Robby Johnson

                  Ellipses users clique ...
                  TGFPT,HYOOTGP

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                  • #89
                    i doubt that a parent can stop bigger kids from picking on little ones. a littler kid has to learn to deal with it. you can't be there all the time. often if you get involved you will make it worse.

                    the other side of it is this. be careful what message you give. if your daughter begins to think the kids pick on her because she is better than them, she will never develop a way to deal with this.

                    my mother did this to me, and it was a terrible disservice. it made my young life very difficult. i spent several years as a little kid believing that i was better than the other kids, and that was why they teased me. i had to learn that it was simply because i was younger and they were older...only THEN did i figure out how to deal with it.

                    on the other hand, if the pony's stall is not cleaned, raise hell. that is something you are paying for and you need to get. that is something tangible.

                    susan

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                    • #90
                      &lt;&lt;i think it needs to be said here that the victim is NEVER to blame for getting bullied (insert beaten, raped, etc...). if someone makes you angry, you DON'T hurt them or make them uncomfortable. it is simply not what civilized people do.&gt;&gt;

                      I think it is a pretty great leap to consider 15 year olds to be completely "civilized." If they aren't already doing their best to put all they've learned about civilization and being civil (and nice and good, etc) to the test, they soon will be, or they wouldn't be normal teens. Even those who don't participate in all that "bad" teen age stuff themselves will be extremely aware of the rebellion going on around them.

                      Now for the real flame suit material:

                      Never say never. As in it NEVER being the victim's "fault." Certainly, a moral and good person will not allow oneself to be provoked into making a victim of another person. But there are a great many not so good and moral people out there (ie the bullies, rapists, muggers, and etc) whom potential victims might do very well to make a point of avoiding. ie, it's good advice to "avoid dark alleys, unlit parking lots," and to "lock your doors" in many areas.

                      Laruffian, these issues are universal, but quite horse related, as in: many assume that teens with an "interest" such as horses are immune from getting into trouble of all sorts. Unfortunately, this is only true in "some" cases, not all. There are bad apples and wild ones in every group.

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        As others have said, the description of what's going on - from a group of 15 yr olds TO a small 10 year old are NOT appropriate, imo.

                        We have a great group of kids at my barn, but I still don't leave my daughter there, except to run my son somewhere, and then only when she's having a lesson, unless one of those teenagers is specifically in charge of her. (My daughter is 12.)

                        Robby, I have to say that I thought your post harsh as well. I might have a slightly different perspective if I wasn't a mother.

                        "B***h in training"
                        \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E

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                        • #92
                          i think that's sort of life.

                          when i was younger, like 12-15 maybe. we used to have all out wars at the barn. we used to be horribly mean to each other, and then the next day, make up and be best friends again.

                          i think it's part of growing up, you need to learn to stick up for yourself.

                          plus, i think it's sort of a funny coicidence that you thought you were being targeted and emotionally abused at work and your daughter is being targeted and emotionally abused at the barn.

                          http://community.webshots.com/user/lskel84
                          http://community.webshots.com/user/lskel84

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                          • #93
                            Are the older kids out of line?
                            Definitely.

                            Part of it may well be that they see her as a PIA , given the age difference, and are trying, in their own barbaric way, to send her the message to buzz off.
                            Still doesn't make their methodology acceptable.

                            But I have to agree with those who saw some evidence in the original post that Mom might be a contributing factor in the disaffection they have.

                            Any road, I wouldn't leave the child there without being there myself, unless she's actually in a lesson.

                            If whoever is in charge of mucking the pony's stall is *not* doing it, I'd raise Cain about it--that's a pretty black and white issue, not subject to misinterpretation. And if it is the case, it might help to get the point across to management that the plder kids are out of line, and need a wake up call, even if it's just "You can be a horse's ass on someone else's property, but not here" variety.

                            Unashamed member of the Arab clique...just settin' on the Group W bench.
                            "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                            ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M. O'Connor:
                              &lt;&lt;posted Oct. 05, 2003 02:04 AM
                              I agree with most of the posters here. older kids should not pick or tease younger kids. especially with physical contact. you should talk to the trainer, as well as the children behind this. maybe consider moving your horse if needed.
                              I disagree when posters say that its somehow your daughters fault. either by actions or words. NO ONE deserves to be picked on. no matter what they say. I dont think any action by a child,good or bad, makes them deserveing of this behavior.
                              superpony, are you saying that this child is asking for this behavior? how does one "instigate" this type of behavior?&gt;&gt;

                              mrgn182, you must never have been a kid, or spent much time observing kids. No one is saying that anyone DESERVES to be bullied or picked on in a cruel manner. But roughhousing can work both ways, and more often than not, those on both sides of the commotion are responsible for what goes on.

                              Lack of supervision is what is going on here. A trainer is normally in the ring, training. Just like teachers are in the classrooms teaching, and not standing outside the lockers in the hallways at school 24/7.

                              If mom were there, with her 10yo, there would be no opportunity for the meanies to "get" her little girl. And she might just discover that the "meanies" aren't really so mean, and that just yesterday, they were little girls themselves.

                              MCL

                              <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                              No I was a child, not so long ago actually .
                              I still see no reason for "rough housing"
                              It is still the trainers duty to at least say something. she is, after all liable.
                              Yes mom should be there, but so should the trainer. easy.
                              ~M~

                              If you start getting nervous about getting hurt you will be....If you are worrying about the danger it's time to give up.
                              ~Jason Weaver
                              If you start getting nervous about getting hurt you will be....If you are worrying about the danger it\'s time to give up.
                              ~Jason Weaver

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                              • #95
                                I'm not going to comment on the specific content of this thread, I think some of it has gone overboard.

                                I will say, though, that one of the things I have always loved about the barn where my daughter rides is the fact that the kids there, who range in age from elementary school through high school and even into college, all are friends regardless of age. Are there ever any spats? Sure, just like in any group of friends. Nothing major or harmful, mind you. But the key is, they are FRIENDS, and it's great to see. There is very little differentiation due to age when it comes to the social aspect of being at the barn.

                                When my daughter started there, she was one of the "little kids" who idolized and looked up to the older ones (from whom she learned a great deal, I might add.) Now, she is one of the "big kids" with her own little following.

                                Just saying this to point out that such places exist, and for anyone whose child doesn't have this, it is worth looking for. If you ask me, this is how it SHOULD be.

                                ------------------------------
                                I'm just the mom....

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  Sorry- I think some of you may have misread what I wrote.

                                  mrgan182- No, I'm not saying that this particular child is asking for the others to treat her like this. I don't know the child and I don't know much about her situation. What I'm saying is that there are generally two sides to every fight and that assuming that the older kids are cruelly abusing a younger one without any provocation is not reasonable. It is entirely possible that the older kids are jealous of the girl and taking out their anger on her. It is also entirely possible that the younger child tags along after them every second that she is at the barn, brags about what she has won and what she owns, and then proceeds to act rude and snotty towards them, meriting their dislike of her. But far more likely, the girl tags along after them and they treat her just like they do the people who are the same age--locking her up, holding her in the air--not realizing that she's not old enough to be treated like that and that such actions scare her.

                                  Belladonna Lilly- Yes, I COMPLETELY agree with you about the supervision. That's what I was trying to say in my post. I think the child needs to be supervised in the presence of kids who are too old to be her peer group and too young to be entirely mature and responsible. I just really disliked how some of the posts here were saying that the older kids were abusing and endangering the life of a younger child, when I didn't see anything that sounded like that at all.

                                  And no, I don't think that it's always the little kid's fault. I just wanted to point out that the older kids may not be the hardened criminals that several posts have been making them out to be. And the group your daughter is a part of sounds lovely, but it is unreasonable to expect that combination of friendship, supervision, and guidance from another child and then be offended if you don't get it. And there is a HUGE jump in maturity levels from age 13 to age 16. Heck, many kids even have that huge maturity jump from age 15 to age 16!

                                  Which is probably one of the reasons that the driving age is 16 and not younger.

                                  Maggymay- that's EXACTLY what I was trying to say!

                                  And about the 10 year old being in 5th grade, that was an assumption based on the fact that I was a 10 year old for the majority of fifth grade, as were both my sisters, and all the current 5th graders and 10 years olds that I know. Anyway, if there is a 3 to 5 year age gap, the child will be in 4th grade with the older kids in 7th, 8th, and 9th grades or the child will be in 5th grade with the older kids in 8th, 9th, and 10th grades.

                                  Yes, that is quite an age gap, but not quite as extreme as one of the others posts said.

                                  And I think I'm in agreement with most of you on the solution--more supervision, no matter whose 'fault' it is!
                                  -Caroline
                                  \"If I go crazy then will you still call me SUPERPONY!\"

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    And, to make a completely off-topic observation, these threads demostrate that psychology concept where a group discusses an issue and becomes more and more opinionated as the discussion progresses. Interesting because you'd expect opinions to become more neutral as both sides spoke, but instead, the group's opinions get less and less neutral.

                                    Like how a discussion starts about, for example, about a child at a barn and the replies start out with "more supervision" and then eventually change to "these kids are terrible, horrible, cruel people!" and "you are an incredibly overprotective mother!".

                                    Anyone have any idea what I'm talking about?
                                    -Caroline
                                    \"If I go crazy then will you still call me SUPERPONY!\"

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      i was in the situation once.....a little dif but same pricipal....i have always been the "hotsot" kid at the barn from the age of 7 i just have for the most part done very well...at my first barn there was a girl who was always mean to me and she was 2 years older than me so i took it to "fit in" she would tell my trainer that i did a lot of not nice things to other students when she was the one doing them...and make fun of me when i didnt win or when she beat me....one day i had the last straw..it was the local medal finals and i jsut missed the cutoff by 1 pt and this girl came prancing back to the barn"EVERYBODY IN TEH BARN MADE THE 2ND ROUND XCEPT CAROLINE" i was 9 years old...the only thing i could do was cry...the next week i changed barns...she and i still compete agaist eachother...however i have a friends from everybarn and all she has is the new target of her jelousy...

                                      ~Luv Liney~

                                      Comment


                                      • #99
                                        I'm kind of torn. Some of that is joking around, my friends pick me up all the time, whenever I'm in the way. It doesn't bother me, but they're just 2 years older. The not reading tests doesn't sound like that big of an issue either, perhaps there was some bragging going on? A LOT of stuff kids do is not seen by the adults.

                                        The locking in the trailer would be scary and potentially hazardous to someone though. I would talk to the trainer and NOT get involved yourself. I'm 15, and if kids were taking joking/bullying to this extent, a mom stepping in will NOT HELP AT ALL it will make it worse. Speak to the trainer. Also, the not cleaning the stall is totally unacceptable. My friends and I would NEVER sacrifice a horses care for jokes sake. The horse must be cared for, we've been taught horses first, always.

                                        About potential being realized. She's 10. Why not just let her decide what she wants to do, not move her to let her potential be realized, to me that sounds like a show mom. In my opinion, kids (by their parents) are getting wayyyy to caught up in winning. Just let her decide where she wants to be.

                                        Comment


                                        • Well, I just hope we haven't scared off JSG for life. She has been noticeably absent since her initial post...

                                          "I am not afraid of storms, for I am learning to sail my ship."
                                          -Louisa May Alcott
                                          "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." ~ Jack Layton

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