• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

All those on the fence on the slaughter issue

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #41
    chaltagor- I respectfully disagree. Shocking and horrible is what happened to the Saddlebreds in KY, the horses that have died in arson fires at stables, the various stories we've all read about someone dragging a horse behind a car, keeping a horse in stout pen and not feeding it. Those actions are illegal and inhumane. The slaughter industry is legal.

    jetmom & two toofs- I'm not familiar enough w/ the heavy sedation drugs to know which ones, if any, can be top dressed on grain to achieve solid sedation or sluggishness. As for the panals, I suspect it could be done with the expected risk the mare would jump through or get tangled in them. The owner, 3 months behind on child support to the tune he just spent 10 days in the county slammer, has no money to speak of so he cannot hire out the work nor afford to do it himself. It is a damn mess and crying shame.

    Comment


    • #42
      SLW- a vet could give you the dosage for oral ACE that could be put in grain.

      Comment


      • #43
        jetsmom, this is the post of SusanP's I was responding to:

        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Susan P:
        J Swan, you do exactly what you are accusing Sweaty Saddlepads of doing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

        Regardless of what the video in question shows, I think some of you are missing the point.

        IMO, almost the entirety of any anti-slaughter discussion I see on here is based on emotion. "Well, *I* would never send MY beloved horse to slaughter" or "Look at this awful video! How can anyone do that to beautiful horses!"

        In other words, the arguments are long on emotion and short on facts.

        Hell, I'd never send one of my horses to slaughter. I won't even send them to be rendered after they've been euthanized. But I realize that's because MY EMOTIONS are tied up in that lifeless carcass, and I'm doing it for *my* sake, not the horse's.

        Emotional appeals work, there's no question about it. But, there are a handful of people out there -- I include myself in this group and I imagine J Swan does too -- who sees stuff like this and immediately discounts it as meaningless fluff designed to elicit a knee-jerk reaction. I realize people such people are probably in the minority... I'm just sayin' that as someone with a pretty good BS detector, I'd have a lot more respect for y'all's arguments if there were based on things other than heartstring-tugging videos.

        Comment


        • #44
          It's a crying shame that know one has called the animal control officer. Every state has one. Neglect is against the law.

          Since I don't see which state you are from I couldn't begin to tell you who to call. If you say which state you are in I will try to find yours.

          Comment


          • #45
            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And I've seen -- in person, not on video -- factory farming operations that offend me a lot more than this video does. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

            So because there are worse examples of animal abuse out there no one should be upset by the horse slaughter video? This is a board about horses, right?

            Comment


            • #46
              Erin, I think everyone can go back a couple posts and read what I posted for themselves and you didn't need to editorialize.

              As you say, "in your opinion" all we ask is that our opinion is equally respected by y'all too.

              Comment


              • #47
                Everytime anyone posts anti slaughter threads they are immediately under attack. So naturally we get a little on the defense. It's not just a matter of giving another opinion, the responses have been quite aggressive.


                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pennywise:
                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And I've seen -- in person, not on video -- factory farming operations that offend me a lot more than this video does. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                So because there are worse examples of animal abuse out there no one should be upset by the horse slaughter video? This is a board about horses, right? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                Comment


                • #48
                  I've never chimed in on this topic, but, like most, have some mixed feelings and thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. I didn't watch this video, but have watched them in the past. I don't need a refresher.

                  Ban horse slaughter?? It sounds nice, but I don't see a workable option.

                  As others have mentioned, there are worse things than death; I do wish, if we are going to slaughter, that we continually work toward more humane ways of doing so.

                  I see this more as a chicken and egg issue. Many of the people (not BB, people I know in person) I know, enjoy racing, eventing, olympic sports... all types of equine activities where 5 figure horses are the norm and 6 figures are gaining popularity all of the time; yet they have a big problem with horse slaughter. How many horses are bred to get that one???

                  I grew up on the back side of a race track, the common practices of the "sport" sicken me. I love horses (animals really) and love racing, but I will not support an industry that sends thousands to slaughter without thought. There's no way I could speak ill of slaughter and support an industry that routinely KILLS foals so the mare may raise a future runner that is deemed more important than her own foal. They have many practices I do NOT care for, but this is the most offensive and I see no need to write a book.

                  Show horses are now seeing the same disposable-ness take over. Showing, training, working together... ribbons were the reward for hard work, team work... Now, more and more people are spending beaucoups for a horse, the horse has expectations day 1, if he/she is injured or does not perform at ____ level; he/she is disposable with ZERO care of his/her future. Just a commodity, bought/sold/neglected/auctioned/slaughtered; not a partner or beloved pet. They are reduced to vehicles for ribbons/trophies. I actually see people go through some type of delimna on what to do with a horse that can no longer ______; apparently putting them out to pasture is too expensive and too much to ask after years of service. There are a lot of things I can no longer do like I could when I was younger, I really hope my family doesn't secretly wish to send me to slaughter rather than feed/house me.

                  The PMU industry could take pages on its' own.

                  I think my problem is not with slaughter, but with the reasons for slaughter; not even that, the reasons that each particular horse wound up there. I would have much less of a problem with horses raised as livestock with the sole intention of being slaughtered (like cows) than I do with the idea that a horse is SENT there b/c he/she isn't doing _____ or they are doing _____ and some one doesn't like it. "Get rid of this one so we have room for the next one" I find offensive.

                  I've given this a lot of thought. I no longer breed because of it. I have all rescues because of it. I'm trying to find free forever homes for my sound/sane horses so I may take in more that are hard to place and give them an opportunity to get better and find homes at their own pace. Slaughter, IMO, isn't as bad as neglect, abuse, over-breeding... just the over-all attitude toward our equine friends that causes so many to be sent to slaughter. People aren't breeding horses for meat, they are breeding 100 foals to get the one with perfect markings; then sending the other 99 out with the trash. That's what I find disgusting.
                  ******************
                  Proud member of the Rescued Horse Clique

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    So be honest Susan do you ever see that from the opposite way? Have you ever seen pro slaughter people attacked on here?

                    My question is what exactly on this video is shocking? The exact same bolt is used to kill cattle, hogs, and sheep. The exact same sounds are made when they hit the floor. The exact same elevators are used to transport waste to semis where its then hauled to the rendering plants.

                    What exactly is it about this that is terrable? I'm asking those who eat beef, pork, or lamb. I can see those who don't eat meat trhinking this is a bad deal but if you eat other species your only kidding yourself
                    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Erin- even county who is for keeping horse slaughter legal, admitted a few posts ago, that the slaughter process for horses, starting with auction, transport and kill box set up is less humane for horses than other livestock types. Saying that the horse slaughter process is the same as any other type of livestock slaughter is not true. That is a fact that is incontrovertible.
                      I am willing to buy off on the argument that some people would like to retain the right to do with their animal as they see fit. However, we do have laws governing humane treatment of animals, and laws that are in place to govern morality based on the desires and morals of a nation (incest/bestiality...which is still legal in some states).
                      I'd have a lot more respect for those that are pro-slaughter if they wouldn't say, "I'd NEVER send MY horse to slaughter, but it's ok if others do. I don't understand why if the slaughter process is so humane and ok, the pro slaughter side wouldn't do it to one of theirs. At least county is consistent and not hypocritical. I can respect that.
                      Maybe I've missed it but I still haven't seen anyone that is pro slaughter (except for county) give any good reasons for slaughter, and say they'd have no problem sending one of their own to slaughter. It seems hypocritical to say the least.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pennywise:
                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And I've seen -- in person, not on video -- factory farming operations that offend me a lot more than this video does. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        So because there are worse examples of animal abuse out there no one should be upset by the horse slaughter video? This is a board about horses, right? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        Uh, no.

                        I just find it illogical that one can be so offended by horse slaughter and not be equally offended by the other kinds.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Susan P:
                          Erin, I think everyone can go back a couple posts and read what I posted for themselves and you didn't need to editorialize.

                          As you say, "in your opinion" all we ask is that our opinion is equally respected by y'all too. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                          And I guess by your definition, the only way to "respect" your opinion is not to challenge it?

                          I was responding to a post of yours. It's a DISCUSSION BOARD. That is what people are supposed to do.

                          But anytime you're challenged, you tell people not to read the threads if they don't like it, and claim you're being attacked.

                          Yes, certain posters (that would be you, county) have crossed the line from disagreement to harrassment on previous threads. But Sweaty Saddlepad directed this thread "to those on the fence"... indicating that this video would sway the opinion of those who might not already be opposed to horse slaughter.

                          Well, I'm someone who's not opposed to horse slaughter, and I'm telling you that making arguments like this doesn't sway me in the least. In fact, it just makes me think less of the movement.

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jetsmom:
                            I'd have a lot more respect for those that are pro-slaughter if they wouldn't say, "I'd NEVER send MY horse to slaughter, but it's ok if others do. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                            I don't necessarily think it's OK. Were the process leading up to slaughter -- the care and the transport -- improved and carefully monitored and regulations inforced, then I would think it OK.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Define harrassment.
                              Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                I saw nothing particularly shocking in that bit of propaganda video.

                                Many of the quibbles the anti-slaughter faction has with the slaughter industry are duplicated amost exactly in the competition world, yet for the purposes of competition (human greed, amusement, whatever), horses are sedated/clipped/mane-yanked/braided/scrubbed, then transported great distances (with no guarantee that a trailer wreck won't kill them), to terrifying places (we expect the horses to just get used to that in order to accomodate our desires), and expected to do things that given a choice, they would probably not choose to do. The difference is that the competition horses are then transported again (perhaps somewhat exhuasted), and then "tortured" all over again next time, and the next time, and the next time. Maybe (if they are lucky), they will not be insured for so much that they are worth more dead than alive once their performance dwindles or the owner needs cash.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Uh, no.

                                  I just find it illogical that one can be so offended by horse slaughter and not be equally offended by the other kinds. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


                                  Maybe they are equally offended. How does that support or invalidate their arguments against horse slaughter? It shouldn't be relevant.

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    greysand bays...are you for real??? You are comparing a show horse being clipped/bathed and braided, then transported to a horse show where they are stabled in a deeply bedded stall, many purchase paddocks for turn out at longer shows, legs carefully rubbed/wrapped, shown (you can't force a horse over a jump if they truly don't want to do it and you won't spend the money showing one that doesn't want to "play"), then transported back home in a trailer that is roomy (and in many cases have box stalls for longer drives) to horses in a pen at auction with a bunch of strange horses, limited food and water, often no vet care, prodded by cattle prods into the ring, transported by being crammed into trailers too small for the number of horses or no intended for horses, driven long distances with no food and water, arrive at a feedlot and are once again in with a bunch of strange horses, no vet care, and forced into a kill chute where hopefully it will be stunned before being hauled upside down and having it's throat slit?

                                    And if that's not enough, the big difference is the show horses arrive home alive. The horses that are sent to slaughter may or may not have an easy death.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pennywise:

                                      Maybe they are equally offended. How does that support or invalidate their arguments against horse slaughter? It shouldn't be relevant. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                      Well, then likewise, it's not relevant if I'm more offended by what I've seen of factory farming than I am by what I've seen of horse slaughter, is it? I only offered up my personal opinion on what bothers *me*.

                                      And I've seen plenty of people here who don't seem bothered by cows or pigs beings slaughtered because they are not "our partners." Like I said, in my opinion, that's not very logical.

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #59
                                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by J Swan:
                                        This material is not designed to educate or inform. It is designed and posted to elicit an emotional response. Emotional responses are not logical or objective. You are using manipulation and deceit to try and get your point across.

                                        J Swan I look at all sides, do my emotions guide me? My emtions play a role in certain aspects but I also tend to be extremely analytical and rational. Logical can be subjective depending on the situation, fine lines everywhere. I fail to see MY manipulation or deceit, clarify please. This video certainly does inform and educate, how exactly doesn't it, there are many people who have no idea what a slaughter facility looks like, what the stock looks like, the sounds ect. People are very visual.

                                        I see right through you.

                                        You do not know the truth in this video. Neither do we. Submitting it as de facto evidence of atrocity only ensures that anyone who dares to question you is dismissed, ridiculed or considered some sort of monster.

                                        Where exactly have I dismissed you other than to say I disagree and follow-up, I got your hair up obviously, no where did I say monster.

                                        Which is probably the whole point. Try to silence anyone who dares to question.

                                        Okay J. Swan I told you in the other post I always read your posts when I see them because I felt you researched and read, so to say I'm trying to silence you or anyone else is interesting. I have done more reading/research on this subject, I have learned more about ALL slaughter, I have researched both sides pro and con, (yes I will say it) I "feel" that the slaughter of our horses should be stopped. I have not reached this decision on an emotional level, though my emotions are there, they are part of me. I encourage everyone to research on their own, look at both sides, to draw their own conclusions. I respect the fact that people have their views and differences, if you have researched and believe the horses will be worse off if slaughter were not an option, okay. This is America we all have a right to free speech, Im not spouting lies and emotional babble, this is what I believe after much research.

                                        That's ok, I wasn't using my civil liberties anyway.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                        Civil liberties, you appear to be making good use of them
                                        NO HORSES TO SLAUGHTER CLIQUE
                                        http://www.cafepress.com/maneshirts

                                        Comment

                                        • Original Poster

                                          #60
                                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by greysandbays:
                                          I saw nothing particularly shocking in that bit of propaganda video.

                                          One man's propaganda is another man's truth's.


                                          Many of the quibbles the anti-slaughter faction has with the slaughter industry are duplicated amost exactly in the competition world, yet for the purposes of competition (human greed, amusement, whatever), horses are sedated/clipped/mane-yanked/braided/scrubbed, then transported great distances (with no guarantee that a trailer wreck won't kill them), to terrifying places (we expect the horses to just get used to that in order to accomodate our desires), and expected to do things that given a choice, they would probably not choose to do. The difference is that the competition horses are then transported again (perhaps somewhat exhuasted), and then "tortured" all over again next time, and the next time, and the next time. Maybe (if they are lucky), they will not be insured for so much that they are worth more dead than alive once their performance dwindles or the owner needs cash. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                          This propaganda is not a good argument.
                                          NO HORSES TO SLAUGHTER CLIQUE
                                          http://www.cafepress.com/maneshirts

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X