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It's okay for me but NOT for you...

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  • #41
    Originally posted by bizbachfan View Post
    I agree with OP in many ways but also feel there are some situations where I can see it being a reasonable request.

    Say you have a very nice, reasonably valuable horse and you have a tragedy, major illness, financial, etc. You have a friend with a huge farm, umlimited resources and loves the horse. I don't think it would be a lot to ask to have the person promise to keep the horse unless there were to be some major tragedy in friend's life at which point of course what can you do? In reality no "forever home" is ever really a sure thing.
    I understand that, but the problem is--you can't FORCE someone to do what you want with property after you surrender it. No one in the real world has unlmited resources. And it doesn't even have to be an emergency--the horse isn't a fit, doesn't turn out to do well at the new place, needs a job/can't do a job...horses are live animals and you can't predict everything will go perfectly. If the new owner is really the horse's OWNER, they need to be able to move it on if they think it's best.

    Unless you are willing and able to take a horse back, no questions asked, whenever and in whatever condition, I don't think you can control means of disposal if it's a true sale or gift, and not just a free lease.

    In museums, the standard policy now is never accept a 'dead hand' gift (bequest with unreasonable restrictions attached), 'permanent loan', or gift with use restrictions if you can possibly avoid it. Inevitably, you end up in court trying to break a will or sort out who owns the 'loaned' object. If you are selling a horse, it's the same thing--you can't reasonably expect to place a ton of restrictions on what you're selling and actually be SELLING it.

    ETA: You certainly can write a contract that would be legally binding requiring a first-refusal offer or returning the horse, but both sides would have to agree and both would have to honor it. Person B accepts the restriction--but Person A has to accept that first, this reduces the buyer pool to those willing to accept that hassle, and that the contract's only enforceable if they make an effort and all it will likely assure in the event of a deal gone bad is they're monetarily compensated.
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    • #42
      Certainly it can be discussed. I have a bigger problem with those who want to "rehome" ancient, unsound horses because the owners can't face up to euthanasia as a viable, merciful option.

      The horse in question is young with an excellent prognosis after surgery. Yes, it's a gamble for any taker, as ANY horse is. Maybe Owner will find no takers for her offer. In that case, it's a moot argument. This woman will NOT let anything bad happen to the horse. Her life circumstances have changed and now she thinks the horse would be better off with someone else. It was an agonizing decision, I'm sure.

      If YOU are not that "someone else", it doesn't concern you.

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      • #43
        Originally posted by Beasmom View Post
        Certainly it can be discussed. I have a bigger problem with those who want to "rehome" ancient, unsound horses because the owners can't face up to euthanasia as a viable, merciful option.

        The horse in question is young with an excellent prognosis after surgery. Yes, it's a gamble for any taker, as ANY horse is. Maybe Owner will find no takers for her offer. In that case, it's a moot argument. This woman will NOT let anything bad happen to the horse. Her life circumstances have changed and now she thinks the horse would be better off with someone else. It was an agonizing decision, I'm sure.

        If YOU are not that "someone else", it doesn't concern you.

        I think since the OP did not mention a specific horse, we can only guess that that was the straw that broke the camel's back.

        But it is the underlying tenor of many of the giveaways. Dobbins has to have the perfect home (much better than I gave him) til he dies (even though I didn't want to give it to him)

        Usually not one single item sparks posts like this...

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        • #44
          Exactly, Alagirl.

          Generally it's just the last straw that broke the camel's back.

          If I had only ever seen one of these types of ads I'd think, "Meh, what idiot is going to agree to those terms?" and move along.

          The fact that I see them over and over again is what wears on me.
          Homeopathy claims water can cure you since it once held medicine. That's like saying you can get sustenance from an empty plate because it once held food.

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          • #45
            Originally posted by HorsesinHaiti View Post
            Can you absolutely demand that someone else be immune to whatever wrecked your own plans to provide that forever home? Not realistically.
            This.

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            • #46
              Originally posted by Chief2 View Post
              There are going to be plenty of hardship stories and sob stories on this thread, all with the same theme in the end: I can no longer carry this burden. I will rehome it, but only to a guaranteed forever home. That's a laudable thought, but what happens on these forums when Person B can't or won't finish out the forever clause? Person A gets on here crying and hyperventilating how the promise of caring for the animal to the grave was broken and the Disney ending they dreamed of was denied to their horse.

              I agree with the OP. This is BS. It doesn't matter to me if the animal is considered priceless or worthless. It is blood, skin and bones on four hooves. If person A is moving the animal on, and cannot take the animal back if something goes wrong after the transaction, they really have no right to burden Person B with an ironclad expectation that said person will have to carry their burden for them to the grave. If Person A couldn't pull it off, why should they think they have the right to demand it from the next guy in line?
              I agree with this.

              Only once in my life was I faced with a situation where I had to rehome a horse. She was my first horse, after 5 years of attempting to fit a square peg into a round hole, I gave up on trying to show her, and bought a more suitable horse. I could afford both of them, but it broke my heart that the mare was not being ridden or had the proper amount of attention. A good home came along, a nice family on a large farm looking for a family horse to trail ride. So, off she went as a free-lease, with the verbal (shame on me for not having a written contract) agreement that if for any reason they could no longer care for her, or didn't want her, she would come back to me (I also retained her papers in my name).

              After 9 years went by, I thought for sure she would be with them until the end. One day out of the blue, they called me, told me they were selling the farm and moving to Montana, and were willing to take the mare with them. At this point the mare was 19 years old, and I was concerned about a long cross-country trip and climate change, so I brought her home. Many tears were shed on both sides when I went to pick her up.

              This mare is now 28 years old, and will be with me until the end. So, mine is one of the "got lucky" stories that worked out well for all involved.
              There are friends and faces that may be forgotten, but there are horses that never will be. - Andy Adams

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              • #47
                MM, at least your people honored the verbal agreement and returned the horse. Good for them, good for you and good for the horse.

                Shame on us, but my cousin "rehomed" one of the older ranch horses many years ago to a fellow who professed admiration for the horse and the desire to have Brownie as his own. Brownie was a favorite, and far from "used up". Cousin gave him to the guy, with the verbal agreement that Brownie would come back to the ranch if John reached a point in his life that he could not keep Brownie. We considered this man a friend and did not dream he'd welsh on the agreement.

                We found out much later that John had sold Brownie and we lost track of both John and the horse. Good thing for John, because I'd have kicked his arse around the block for what he did.

                Verbal agreements are worth the paper they're written on(!), unless the parties involved have a sense of honor and responsibilty.

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                • #48
                  Once the horse is out of your hands, you have lost control.

                  The ONLY way to guarantee it's taken care of properly is to keep the horse, or put it down so it never has to suffer.

                  I don't care if you have a contract, by the time you find out what's happening, the animal has already suffered... and that's not OK in my book.

                  I have a 26yr old that would have been a great kid's horse. I used her for some lessons (so I had total control) and then retired her when it was time. She still gives the ocassional kid walk lesson.
                  Would I want to use the money I put into my mare's monthly expenses (full board, joint supplement) towards my gelding's lessons & shows? absolutely. But I love her too much, and she worked hard for me for so many years. She deserves a proper retirement.

                  So I don't feel bad for the PERSON who finds out their horse/animal has been mistreated after they found it "a forever home".

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    In terms of living things even contracts have a limited shelf life.

                    All you can expect in return for a broken contract is money....

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by Chardavej View Post
                      Does anyone know if he was ever found?
                      http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...unition&page=3

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        I wholeheartedly agree with the OP on this subject. While I may be able to muster some sort of understanding where seller A is coming from, I find it a TOTAL and COMPLETE turn off.

                        My philosophy is this:

                        If you want your sweet snookums to have a forever home, you'd better be the one to give it, because once you sell snooky, you relinquish ALL rights and chances are that the horse will get passed around off and on for the rest of it's life.

                        Expecting, imposing, that the new owner meet any demands once the transaction is done is ridiculous and not a business deal I personally would have any part of.

                        I run far away from any prospects with sellers that fit the "must be forever home", "must send monthly photos", "must be willing to entertain home visits", "must return horse when no longer wanted", description.

                        I almost adopted an OTTB once, but stopped dead in my tracks when I found out the stipulations. If I want to pick up a TB, I'll buy one from a trainer off the backside, thanks. Don't need a horse that comes with human baggage.

                        JMHO.
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                        • #52
                          I have no real problem with the situation the OP described (though I do find it a bit hypocritical, but hey, I can also see the standpoint of wanting the horse to have a good home and not end up in a bad situation down the road).

                          Personally, I don't think I'd agree to such a situation, if for no other reason than you never know what life will send your way. You might have a paid-off house with land/facilities and everything, but a natural disaster could occur and suddenly your facilities are useless. Or you have a medical emergency in your family and can't stay at home and care for your horses. Or...whatever other major life change that can/will happen eventually.

                          I did give a horse away to a good home, with the stipulation that I have first right of refusal if the mare needs a new home. Realistically, I'm not likely to be able to offer said home, since I've since moved to another country. (And I keep in touch with her new owner via FB and she looks in good shape, so hopefully it's a moot point ) If her new owner wants to sell/give her away down the road, though? That's fine by me, part of the reason she has the mare now is that I know she cares about her horses and would work to find a good home.

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