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No god deed goes unpunished- RIP Luna

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  • #81
    Originally posted by Trakehner View Post
    The dog would be gone...today.

    Dog's either at the local shelter or the owner is finding another home....today. Their choice.
    I've got ZERO problem with putting down an animal - including shooting one harassing livestock or killing pets.

    But there is absolutely no way on earth that abandoning an animal is EVER appropriate.
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling

    Comment


    • #82
      Originally posted by Trakehner View Post
      The dog would be gone...today.

      Dog's either at the local shelter or the owner is finding another home....today. Their choice.

      Sorry, but peoplle waving hands and whinging "He's only being a dog" and "You're being so mean"....oh please. A neighbor dog was running after 2 horses, one injured and put down due to the dog. Bang! Dead dog and we hung him on the fence bordering the barn/his owners property...this was in Middleburg, VA...horse country doesn't tolerate livestock killing dogs.

      If somebody's dog killed a barn cat...another "Bang" moment. I protect those I care about...I couldn't abide a dog near me who killed my cat.

      So sorry about the cat.

      I have to agree with Trake on this one- BANG. End of story.
      If i'm posting on Coth, it's either raining so I can't ride or it's night time and I can't sleep.

      Comment


      • #83
        Am I the only one who finds it a bit weird that animal people cannot understand the carnal nature of animals? How many National Geographic shows have you watched with crocodiles killing innocent little zebra foals, or rabbits being caught and skinned alive by an eagle?

        Nobody is calling for these wild animals to all be rounded up and shot and hung on a fence because they DARED to act on their instincts of killing a helpless prey.

        A dog is an ANIMAL. I live with 3 of them, and they are very well trained, but at the end of the day, they are animls with a carnal nature. If a person cannot accept the fact that pets are domesticated wild animals with natural instincts and tendencies, then they should not share their lives with them.

        Do any of you own a horse that has stomped to death a small animal? I do. Sweets pounded one of my lovely hens into the dirt for no reason other than to just "do it" apparently. She has also attacked my hound dog and knocked him on the head so hard she did nerve damage in his face. If I wasn't out there, she would have killed him.

        So technically this horse acted aggressively and savagely toward two different small animals so she should be shot and killed and hung on a fence for the buzzards to eat.

        So if she were YOUR horse, would you HONESTLY do that? Would you kill your own horse in a fit of vengeful rage because she killed a chicken and tried to kill a dog? Is it ok for a horse to stomp on a chicken but when a dog kills a cat, then the one bang rules has to be invoked?

        It sux for sure. I was so mad at her when I saw her go after the dog. I threw a manure rake at her to get her to back off of him, and ran at her so fast and hard she THOUGHT I was going to kill her. She got the message and I haven't seen her act aggressively toward him or anything else since then (it's been almost 2 years now.)

        But unfortunately animals will be animals. We can train them and discipline them and do everything we can to make them behave within domestication but sometimes the carnal nature takes over and we humans have little control.

        Comment


        • #84
          I am a cat lover. I prefer cats to dogs. Yes, it's sad that EFF lost her cat and witnessed the event. Sorry for your loss.

          However, I agree wholeheartedly with the posters who have taken EFF to task for expressing the intention to turn the dog loose. And expressing the desire to hit the dog with a shovel or kick it is barbaric. Yes, in the heat of the moment, I can understand that rage, but think about how that sounds to others before you put it up on the internet -- it makes you sound like a barbarian, EFF.

          The cat got out. The dog did what dogs do, tragically. Take it to a shelter or a rescue or a vet, complete with history -- but don't abuse the poor thing. It has no sense of right or wrong the way humans are SUPPOSED to have.

          Turning a dog loose, "dumping" it, is such a White Trash thing to do. Do the right thing by the dog to honor the memory of your cat. If you have any conscience at all, abusing this dog will make you feel even worse. Or is should, if you have a heart for animals.

          Comment


          • #85
            Elys Fields would never abandon and animal (I don't believe any COTH poster would ever abandon an animal) no matter how mad she was. It's just venting emotion from a loved cat being killed.

            As someone noted, there are WAY too many lovely dogs and cats who need homes to ever put up with or tolerate an ill-behaved or psycho dog or cat. Euthanasia isn't evil or cruel...pity more horses running through meat auctions in PA and elsewhere didn't have owners honest and humane enough to put their poor horse down....but selfish enough to try and get every last nickel no matter how their horses suffered.

            It's a hurt person releasing emotion...I'd suggest lightening up and some not getting holier-than-thou and I'm-above -such-emotions. None of us are.
            "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"

            Comment


            • #86
              Originally posted by JSwan View Post
              The FRIEND is the one who told the OP to set the dog loose to fend for itself.
              Well, that is what the OP posted and we do not know what the exact conversation was or how it was really said. The OP is obviously emotional and not typing out a rational story so I take some of it with a grain of salt. Since she has not been back, no one really knows what she might really be thinking now that she has had time to process a little more.

              Comment


              • #87
                If I had an aggressive animal that I could keep for the rest of it's life and do my best to keep it away from other animals that could be injured I would keep it.

                BUT if I had a horse/dog/crocodile that had the potential to be dangerous, and I didn't know where it would end up, I would put it down. I would not pass on an animal knowing that it could harm something else. Sounds like this dog and cat were in the wrong place at the wrong time, but I couldn't give this dog away unless I was 100% it was going to a home where it won't be around cats or other small animals.

                Oh and DOMESTIC animals are very different than the ones IN THE WILD (like the ones seen on NG). Yes they share some instincts, but I don't think comparing dogs to crocodiles is fair...
                Foaling Around www.facebook.com/foalingaround
                Custom Equestrian Items and Bath Products

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                • #88
                  Originally posted by Beasmom View Post
                  Turning a dog loose, "dumping" it, is such a White Trash thing to do. Do the right thing by the dog to honor the memory of your cat. If you have any conscience at all, abusing this dog will make you feel even worse. Or is should, if you have a heart for animals.

                  really though, that is what the Kielbasa Queen did to the OP to begin with and the OP fell for it...

                  as for A2...the very nature of the word "domesticated" indicates that they are in the care,custody and control of the humans around them...

                  now most people "get" care and custody but they miss badly in the "control" part

                  stock killers are not tolerated in places of the world where stock=more value than their killers...not killers of cats,chickens,ducks,baby calves....not anything.

                  ymmv depending on your part of the world of course...

                  Tamara in TN
                  Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                  I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                  Comment


                  • #89
                    Originally posted by Trakehner View Post
                    Elys Fields would never abandon and animal (I don't believe any COTH poster would ever abandon an animal) no matter how mad she was. It's just venting emotion from a loved cat being killed.

                    As someone noted, there are WAY too many lovely dogs and cats who need homes to ever put up with or tolerate an ill-behaved or psycho dog or cat. Euthanasia isn't evil or cruel...pity more horses running through meat auctions in PA and elsewhere didn't have owners honest and humane enough to put their poor horse down....but selfish enough to try and get every last nickel no matter how their horses suffered.

                    It's a hurt person releasing emotion...I'd suggest lightening up and some not getting holier-than-thou and I'm-above -such-emotions. None of us are.
                    Bull. Crap. Re-read her second post. She sounded quite likely to abandon the dog. Hopefully she's re-thought that, but I doubt we'll ever know, and I even wonder if we'll hear from her again after this.

                    ETA: Let's remember that it was also technically her responsibility to keep the cat inside. She let the cat get out, albeit accidentally.

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      I don't understand why the mods leave up non-horse related posts. All CoTH is nowadays is:

                      Wow Smrtpak is GREAT!
                      Look at this video!
                      Is this a scam?
                      How do I blanket?
                      Wow Smrtpak is GREAT!
                      Look at this video!
                      Is this a scam?
                      I found a kitty!
                      Wow Smrtpak is GREAT!
                      Look at this video!
                      Is this a scam?
                      Anyone order from Horseloverz????
                      Wow Smrtpak is GREAT!
                      Look at this video!
                      Is this a scam?
                      Beetpulp WTH?

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        If the OP suggested doing these things to the dog (e.g., shovel to the head, turning it loose, etc.) because it had damaged her property, I'm pretty sure no one would find these statements acceptable or dismiss them as "just venting". The fact that her pet died means that her motivation is anger and revenge. Grief does not excuse egregious behaviour, and revenge against an animal is utterly pointless and cruel. These may just be thoughts, but they are posted on a public bb -- "I hate the dog and can't bear to look at him" is not the same as "I will probably turn it loose and hope it gets hit". Would you view "I am furious with my husband" in the same way as "I will likely shoot him in the head when he gets home from work tonight"?

                        A friend died in a freak accident with her horse, and despite whatever her family may have thought privately in their darkest moments they never behaved cruelly or vengefully toward the horse. Frankly, what would have been the point?

                        Euthanasia may be the best option here but cruelty is cruelty -- regardless of the circumstances.

                        OP if you still are reading -- I do feel for you and am sorry for your loss.
                        I don't mind if you call me a snowflake, 'cause baby, I know a blizzard is coming.

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          So how many people own a dog that's caught and killed a squirrel or a baby bunny, or a MOUSE? One of the most terrible things I've seen was a mouse jump out of an old feed bag and my dog grab it in mid air and puncture holes in him then drop him and pounce around on him with his big toenails. I do NOT tolerate them chasing wild rabbits or squirrels and most certainly not cats. They don't bother to hardly give them a second look anymore, but I've never said a thing about the ocassional mouse they nab and kill because mouse really DON'T need to be contaminating my horse's feed and eating my tack.

                          So technically my dogs are savage killers and should be put down (by whatever means necessary) because they will exterminate a mouse if they get the opportunity.

                          People freak out when it's a beloved pet cat, but when it's a wild rabbit, nobody bats an eyelash. Unless the dog is really well trained (and they CAN be), they don't necessarily distinguish between beloved family pet and hated feedroom rodent.

                          If people just allowed and encouraged all their pet dogs to chase and kill cats, most dogs would gleefully do it. It comes natural to them, especially to certain breeds which have been bred as hutning dogs.

                          Just because a dog does catch and kill a cat doesn't mean the dog is a savage beast that needs to be extinguished by any means necessary. It means that the dog acted on it's carnal prey drive (which ALL dogs possess to some degree.) It means that we as humans didn't train the dog well enough, or that nature just simply TOOK OVER.

                          P.S. - Patricia McConnel, well noted animal behaviorist and dog trainer has a LOT to say about the domesticated dog's prey drive and instincts. I have her books and don't ever recall seeing her recommend euthanizing a dog that has killed a cat or other small pet.

                          Comment


                          • #93
                            Originally posted by Trakehner View Post
                            Elys Fields would never abandon and animal (I don't believe any COTH poster would ever abandon an animal) no matter how mad she was. It's just venting emotion from a loved cat being killed.

                            As someone noted, there are WAY too many lovely dogs and cats who need homes to ever put up with or tolerate an ill-behaved or psycho dog or cat. Euthanasia isn't evil or cruel...pity more horses running through meat auctions in PA and elsewhere didn't have owners honest and humane enough to put their poor horse down....but selfish enough to try and get every last nickel no matter how their horses suffered.

                            It's a hurt person releasing emotion...I'd suggest lightening up and some not getting holier-than-thou and I'm-above -such-emotions. None of us are.
                            Thank you for that well-worded post. Exactly what I was thinking, minus my emotional reaction to the OP being trashed.

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              Chalt...you win the internets for the day! That pretty much sums it up alright!

                              I'd have no issues shooting or euthanizing a dog that had aggression issues or was a confirmed pet/livestock killer. Zero issues with that.

                              I would have large issues with anyone beating a dog with a shovel, turning it loose and all that suffering and fear that entails or kicking/stomping it.

                              I *can* understand having a knee-jerk anger response in a case like this...I don't think it's totally off the wall to briefly think that.

                              I *do* think it's totally off the wall to dwell on it and want to act on it. And even odder to post it on an animal related BB where it's pretty much a given to evoke an even stronger anger-response.

                              As for everyone having the same knee-jeerk thoughts or wanting to do the same...I guess I can be added to the "I'm super" group because nope, I don't think that way. Even if I have to shoot an animal, I don't do it in anger or for feeling revenge. It's a horribly sad feeling and leaves you feeling rotten for a good long while.

                              But what do I know? I've never even ordered anything from Smrtpak.
                              You jump in the saddle,
                              Hold onto the bridle!
                              Jump in the line!
                              ...Belefonte

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                How many National Geographic shows have you watched with crocodiles killing innocent little zebra foals, or rabbits being caught and skinned alive by an eagle? Ummm, the zebra is no more "innocent thatn the croc...cute or youth don't make them "innocent".

                                Nobody is calling for these wild animals to all be rounded up and shot and hung on a fence because they DARED to act on their instincts of killing a helpless prey. Of course they are...if you're in Africa and want to keep your kids safe or your crops safe, you start killing off the local animals..especially the elephants and leopords.

                                A dog is an ANIMAL...If a person cannot accept the fact that pets are domesticated wild animals with natural instincts and tendencies, then they should not share their lives with them. Uh, do you share your life with a dog that's dangerous or apt to attack you or your children? It's "natural" for a dog with a high prey drive to go after kids running.

                                Do any of you own a horse that has stomped to death a small animal? I had a mare that hated small dogs, she killed several of them at horse shows, the dogs owners paid no attention to my warnings of "keep your dog away from my horse, she hates dogs"...sniff-kick-yip-FLUFFY! My mule killed a fox in his field...yep, my guys have been critter hit men.
                                So technically this horse acted aggressively and savagely toward two different small animals so she should be shot and killed and hung on a fence for the buzzards to eat. If one of my animals was in my yard and a horse or dog was running loose and came in my propery and was going to do damage to them...hell yes I'd have no problem with a "Bang!" reaction. I killed a mare once because she was too dangerous to sell, she could be evil...didn't matter why she was dangerous, she was dangerous and not worth a person getting injured.

                                So if she were YOUR horse, would you HONESTLY do that? Would you kill your own horse in a fit of vengeful rage because she killed a chicken and tried to kill a dog? To repeat, if the horse was dangerous...yes.

                                ...Sometimes the carnal nature takes over and we humans have little control. Of course we do, "BANG" or adoption.

                                If a wolf/dog is going after livestock...the livestock isn't more innocent than the wolf...the difference is, we have control over the wolve's carnal nature (they're gonna' have sex with the livestock?), the livestock is ours and we're responsible for our livestock's safety and well-being...BANG! Livestock 1: Wolf/Dog 0
                                "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  Originally posted by asb_own_me View Post
                                  Thank you for that well-worded post. Exactly what I was thinking, minus my emotional reaction to the OP being trashed.
                                  I don't think people would be defending the OP if she were talking about bashing her HORSE over the head with a shovel and kicking and stomping him and throwing him out in the wild to die of starvation because he stomped on her cat in the barn aisle and killed it. She would be strung up at dawn if she spoke about a horse in that manner.

                                  When I was a kid we had a pet cat that killed one of our pet birds. Bird got out of the cage and cat nabbed him and trotted around with the bird in his mouth, full of pride and showing off his prey to anybody who wanted to see. Neither I nor my parents went postal on the cat and beat her over the head with a shovel.

                                  Predators sometimes kill prey animals, whether they be domesticated or not, it happens.

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    Originally posted by Trakehner View Post
                                    (I don't believe any COTH poster would ever abandon an animal) no matter how mad she was.
                                    Then you haven't been paying attention. There have been several COTH posters convicted of abuse/cruelty over the years. Seemingly "nice" people.

                                    I can't peer into someone's soul and discern their intent. I can only rely upon what they write. When someone posts that they're about to do something illegal, like commit animal cruelty, I take it seriously.

                                    My hope is that the OP is just venting.

                                    But since animal abandonment is a real and ongoing problem, as is animal cruelty, it's not unreasonable to infer that the OP intends to commit that act.

                                    But I will continue to hope that the OP is just distraught - and that dog is not sitting outside shivering. Or wandering the road.
                                    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                                    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                                    -Rudyard Kipling

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      Originally posted by Trakehner View Post
                                      Elys Fields would never abandon and animal.
                                      How do you know this when she clearly states that she would?

                                      If she had something along the lines of "I am tempted to turn the dog loose, but know that I couldn't" I would have ZERO problem with her right now. Unfortunately, nowhere does she give any indication that she wouldn't. In fact, she does the opposite; stating that she probably WILL do it!
                                      A lovely horse is always an experience.... It is an emotional experience of the kind that is spoiled by words. ~Beryl Markham

                                      Comment


                                      • #99
                                        Originally posted by sketcher View Post
                                        It sounds like the OP took the dog in for her GOOD friend who was going through a divorce. This does not make the friend a bad person. She may be in a difficult position where her hands are tied with respect to the dog situation. I'm not sure how you can label the friend irresponsible and unfeeling based on the original post. She posted in a moment of emotional anguish. She agreed to take the dog in and with that comes a responsibility and apparently some risk. Having animals always brings risk with it regardless of how well trained or behaved. I would hope the OP does not allow an awful situation ultimately ruin her friendship.
                                        I agree that in the beginning it was a good friend in a bad time. But allowing it to stay there for 8 long months, with a friend who does not want the dog is irresponsible. In 8 months there has to have been some option for taking care of her own dog. Her daughter was capable of coming by, unwanted, to bring "toys" but not able to find anyone anywhere that would take the dog???? My comment about her being unfeeling is the comments about just turning the dog out, the owner's original idea not EFF. If an animal of mine brought that much pain to a GOOD friend of mine I would find a way as soon as possible to do what she wants, which is take the dog from her, even if I had to euthanize or take it to a shelter myself - it's MY dog. I would be there for her, not let her sit there all alone, angry and hurt. I would make it right, or as right as I could at this point, not continue to leave my problems at her house.

                                        And to those saying we are defending horrible behavior and character, I disagree, at least about the point I was trying to make. I am not excusing her posts at all, nor do I agree with them. What I am trying to do is to have compassion for the human in this situation that is hurting to hopefully help her see the right way, not the angry, vengeful way to deal with the dog. I don't feel lecturing someone when they are down will make them see my point of view and do the right thing. Hopefully compassion and support, not attacking will help her have compassion for the dog and do what is right even if the actual owner won't.

                                        Comment


                                        • Some of you really enjoy kicking someone while she's down, don't you?
                                          Donald Trump - proven liar, cheat, traitor and sexual predator! Hillary Clinton won in 2016, but we have all lost.

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