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Horse ownership and registration papers.

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  • #21
    Originally posted by bugsynskeeter View Post
    Yes it is the sellers responsibility to transfer a horse according to AQHA. Even if you sent a horse to an auction and gave them the transfer papers, it is still your responsibility to make sure the papers get transfered to the new owner.

    However, no one I know does this. What seller is going to pay the transfer fee? I've always been given the papers to send in the transfer and pay the fee.


    I usually have the transfer ready along with the papers and a money order made out to AQHA or APHA.....with copies of all to the buyer. I put the originals in an envelope in front of the buyer (if local) or shipper (if the horse is being bought at a distance) and seal it. The buyer can then mail it or I will. AQHA does allow for fines of the seller should it be found they are not doing this (haven't ever seen it actually happen) and if it is found that a horse went through several owners and they were not all on the horse's papers they CAN make you go back and get a transfer on each one....did see that happen a time or two.

    Horses going to auctions have the original papers signed by the seller turned over to the auction personnel....they then fill in the buyer info and send the papers in .... the name of the auction company/service has to also be given to AQHA...they don't show up on the ownership record but AQHA does want them so that if there's a question they can be contacted.
    Colored Cowhorse Ranch
    www.coloredcowhorseranch.com
    Northern NV

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    • #22
      My "proof of ownership" is the cashed check that I paid for the horse with. I fill out name of the the horse plus description plus "paid in full" on the check. I think it would hold up in court.

      If I paid cash I would hand write a Bill of Sale, get it signed, and keep it.

      My horses are all inexpensive, but if they ever become big winners I don't want someone coming in claiming that they were free leases or some crap like that. So I make sure I keep in my records a document that I am confident represents full and clear title to the horse in writing -- and that is NEVER just the registration papers.

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      • #23
        Branding is common on ranches out here. A brand has to be designed to meet certain criteria with the state dept of Agriculture....and placed on the animal in a location designated by them (you do the design and ask for the location when you register your brand but they can alter either so that there isn't duplication within your state brand registry or those in adjoining states). You can then do hot or freeze or chemical branding. IF an animal is branded and shows up at a local livestock auction there is a brand inspector there....with a book showing all the brands registered within that state and often those of adjoining states as well. He will check the brand and its location against the book (usually knows all the local ones!)....and then against the name of the person consigning the horse (or other branded animal..usually cattle) to the sale for matching the consignor to the recorded owner of that horse with that brand. Computers make this much easier than it used to be!! Another way of branding is a hoof brand....using a hot branding iron to make a brand on the hoof wall...usually done on one foot every 3 months....that way there's always one that is complete as they others grow out slowly. Also hard to alter.

        Just a comment regarding thinking a horse is unlikely to be stolen as she's not well broke to load.....a couple of pipe panels make a quick and easy loading chute and a cattle prod will encourage even wild ones to load up into a stock trailer...take the panels down and tie back onto the side of the trailer...takes about 10 minutes to set up, capture, load, tear down the chute and be gone. Horse thieves don't care about training and DO care about quick.
        Colored Cowhorse Ranch
        www.coloredcowhorseranch.com
        Northern NV

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        • #24
          I just bought a Paint gelding, and I'm the one who sent in the transfer on the registration certificate, plus the fee. Every time I've bought a horse I've been the one to take care of that detail.

          Once the new registration certificate arrives I have the brand inspector out, and she uses that certificate as my proof of ownership in obtaining the brand inspection. Then I carry the lifetime cards in my wallet for all three of my horses. Those cards have a photo of each horse on them, plus my info. For any in-state travel my registration would be accepted if I were to be stopped by a brand inspector, but it's not enough if I were to go across the state line.

          As someone already said, if you're stopped and you don't have the proper inspection and vet certificate they will impound your horse and charge you board and penalties until they can get a vet and brand inspector out. Much cheaper to take care of it when you first get the horse and buy a lifetime card. I bought a horse from Wyoming and the sellers arranged for a temporary brand inspection and vet certificate, but once I got him home I had to get another inspection.

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          • #25
            This is an interesting thread and I thought I would revive it and chime in. It is applicable in my situation as I purchased 2 horses from a breeder who I am having problems with. The state of Montana ONLY recognizes a brand inspection as ownership. PERIOD. Since this breeder refused to give me bills of sale for either horse (my mistake for being too naive to ask for them at time of purchase) there followed a terrifying period of time where I thought I had no way to get proof of ownership on the horses. Even proof of payment wasn't good enough! Even the declarations on her website that the horses had been sold to me weren't good enough! But after doing a bit of research and going directly to the top livestock inspector in the state, I discovered that they would accept a health inspection or coggins certif stating "change of ownership" and signed by the seller. Those I had!!! So I was able to get them both brand inspected. I am told that the brand inspection is recognized as legal ownership in all lower 48 states.
            And another scary scenario related to ownership/brand inspections: I was given a JC registered mare. (who also happened to have a brand on her shoulder) I decided to breed that mare. When her foal was 3 months old we decided we'd better get them both brand inspected so that we could transport them to Idaho for their RPSI inspection. The first thing the inspector said to me was "who owns this brand?" My response was "HUH?"
            I had no idea. He then proceeded to tell me that whoever owned the brand also owned the mare, and her foal too!!!! YIKES. Talk about panic. He went into the office and went on his computer and up came about 6 million different brands and their coinciding "owners" My mare's brand just happened to be owned by the original breeder of the mare, who had signed her over to the next owner, who had signed her over to me. So there was a legal paper trail and it was fine. Had that not been the case it could have turned into a legal nightmare and I would have had to hunt down whoever owned the brand.

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            • #26
              I had a trainer bully me into giving him my mare, he said that he would take me to court over her and because I didn't want a problem I gave him her papers in exchange for a foal. He worked my mare so much that she wasn't cycling and I lost my booking fee for the stallion. So we amended the agreement to train another horse for me in exchange for her and that never happened. A few years ago I had given him another horse and I never asked a dime for even though I paid 3k for. My question is can I contact the breed registry to keep him from registering her until the dispute is resolved?

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              • #27
                Originally posted by Jenua View Post
                I had a trainer bully me into giving him my mare, he said that he would take me to court over her and because I didn't want a problem I gave him her papers in exchange for a foal. He worked my mare so much that she wasn't cycling and I lost my booking fee for the stallion. So we amended the agreement to train another horse for me in exchange for her and that never happened. A few years ago I had given him another horse and I never asked a dime for even though I paid 3k for. My question is can I contact the breed registry to keep him from registering her until the dispute is resolved?
                My big question is, why didn't you walk away from this trainer years ago? You gave this trainer two horses? Why on earth? I am sure there is more to this story than noted here, and that the trainer may have a very different account of events (which might also have gaps and holes in it too).

                As far as the breed registry, you need to contact them specifically, whichever one it is. There are many registries. Contact the appropriate one for your breed.

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                • #28
                  My experience is that breed registries do not get embroiled in ownership disputes. They have a process for the transfer of registration papers than must be followed. You can contact the breed registry and let them know there is a legal dispute in progress regarding ownership. Most registries will wait until there is a resolution.
                  Where Norwegian Fjords Rule
                  http://www.ironwood-farm.com

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                  • #29
                    Likewise the law authorities do not get involved in ownership disputes. You may need to go to small claims court or the like to get this sorted out.

                    meanwhile, you really do need to find someone else to do business with.

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                    • #30
                      N.B. that this is this poster's first post...
                      Maybe the reason I love animals so much is because the only time they have broken my heart is when they've crossed that rainbow bridge

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                      • #31
                        Originally posted by Where'sMyWhite View Post
                        N.B. that this is this poster's first post...
                        Oh yes, noted. Would probably be more useful for poster to start a new thread, rather than revive this old one.

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                        • #32
                          Originally posted by Jenua View Post
                          I had a trainer bully me into giving him my mare, he said that he would take me to court over her and because I didn't want a problem I gave him her papers in exchange for a foal. He worked my mare so much that she wasn't cycling and I lost my booking fee for the stallion. So we amended the agreement to train another horse for me in exchange for her and that never happened. A few years ago I had given him another horse and I never asked a dime for even though I paid 3k for. My question is can I contact the breed registry to keep him from registering her until the dispute is resolved?
                          Perhaps with a court order. Is the mare unregistered now?? Or are you asking if you can prevent an ownership *transfer*?

                          Do you have a contract detailing this agreement?

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