Grr...horse acting up on a group ride! How to handle? *Update on post 15*

[jenm]

Some of you may have read a thread I started a couple of months ago where I discussed my mare having a melt down on a trail ride. I've been trying to get her out more, but she still has "moments" some of which last for quite some time!

Yesterday, we trailered out to join a local group consisting of about 9 horses and ponies that was going Christmas caroling on horseback. In retrospect, I should have bailed when I saw how disorganized it was. My horse actually started out really well and I was proud of her. Someone made the (bad) decision to try to ride a bit through a downtown area, including cutting through the parking lot of a grocery store. Horse was fine with shopping carts, but did not want to cross the area where there was a small metal grate across the entrance. I ended up getting off and leading her because it was not a safe environment in which to school her, and we were well behind the others at that point. Group then left the downtown area and went back to local trails.

Sadly, my horse never settled down after the parking lot. She was prancing and hopping and then started kicking out at the other horses. Even when I got off and led her, she still pranced. Of course, having a naughty pony in the group didn't help... She got better when the group split up and she was with two horses from our barn, but even then, she still hopped, pranced and danced sideways. She actually did better when we put her in front of the group, rather than the middle or rear, but I do want her to be comfortable in all places. When we got back to our trailer, she was in a full lather. She just got herself so worked up!

So, my question is, what do you do when your horse is clearly uncomfortable and acting up? When she was scooting her hindquarters sideways, I put my leg on her and pushed her back so she was straight, but holding her back and trying to half halt while she was prancing, only served to frustrate her.

I learned that I won't ever go on a group ride that is so disorganized and where safety of humans and horses may be compromised. However, what I don't know is what situations call for discipline (and how to discipline) and what situations call for patience and understanding. I did get after her when she tried to kick out at another horse, but I just tried to calmly ride through her other antics.

Suggestions?
(Please don't beat me up for staying with the group, I didn't feel comfortable leaving the group and going back to the trailer alone.)

[katarine]

Some horses just hate that sort of stuff. You own one of them

Kickers can be trained to behave themselves in controlled environments, such as drill team work, riding in the warm up area at a horse show, etc...but that takes a lot of time and wet saddle blankets.

In the moment? You keep them busy and keep everyone safe.

If that means lead her- get off.

If that means leg yielding back and forth, do that.

If that means buddy her up tight and close to another rider who can help you and wants to help you-survive, do that.

She was clearly frazzled, probably shod, and on pavement. Just be careful as best you can, and skip any parade type caroling ideas going forward. that takes a horse with a patience of Job. That's not her.

If you want her to be able to handle being anywhere in a crowd...it's called time and riding and time and riding. Work.

[goeslikestink]

go out more shes not used to it, and ride middle rear and front and the worse thing you did was to get off as that rewarded her for a bad behaviour and made it tens times worse for you, next time out try not to tense and thiink iam going out in a gruop, or iam passing the grid or whatever clear your mind and her her forwards and sit the trama and ignore whatever is going on,

think when you think to much about xyz in this case group riding it comes across to the horse as a fear factor and they only have 2 of those 1st is to flee the 2nd is to adave you, so the horse hears it as OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO we going out in a group ride so already on his toes before you even start plus when in a situtation as you was sub conciously your tensing which is asking the horse to go and stop at the same time so there fore not giving the horse a direct signal of command added to that so therefore the horse throws himself about abitand you lose your confidence so get off then the horse has won and has the advantage and knows how to get you to re-act to him being naughty

the answer is dont let him antispate your moves and ride with confidence clear your mind and ignore stuff then the horse will to and if you do that you want be tense and give mix signals of which he cant understand and he want get het up about it either

here in uk we ride on the roads a lot more than usa as our country isnt as vast as yours and to get anywhere for a gallop then we have to go on the roads so its important that the horses become boomproof in traffic and anything else that we can trow at them so they dont panic and the only way to do that is to ignore it all and sit in and ride out and working the horse so his attention is on you and not whats going on a round him this also includes group riding as we tend to do a lot of that over here by going out with mates or sponsored rides or hunting whatever

ooh and the golden rule is if your know your horse kick out at others the have the decency to put a red ribbon its tail to warn people that way they wont be rushing up your arse and keep back off you which in the end will help your horse not to get to upset by having someone behind him every so often i time you will be able to take it out and trust your horse

[coloredcowhorse]

Probably too much too soon for her. Back up a bit and work with her in smaller groups (maybe the ones from your barn first) and do things like "leap frogging" on the trail....each horse gets to "leap" the leader while the leader goes to the rear...each gets to be leader, middle and trailer this way. You can also "braid" your ride where each rider goes out to the side some distance and then weaves back in and then out to the other side of the group. These kinds of exercises can help the horse that is a bit "herd bound" or "buddy sour" by teaching that they can be separated for short periods and will come back...and your horse can go out and come back as well. Increase time and distance apart and reward the horse when doing well out on her own. Another option is to take her out alone, go on a planned loop so there isn't a "go back the way we came" to get home. Go part way out, stop, loosen the cinch, brush/pet/visit with her, give her a treat or two and it won't be long until she thinks going out is wonderful. You can double up on this effect by making sticking around the barn/buddies the area where you do the hardest work..not necessarily the physically hardest but make her mind work. Horses are by nature conservative of energy (ie...lazy) so she will soon decide that being out on the trail is easier than being around the barn and buddies. You can practice with going over odd objects if you can find some (try flea markets/yard sales for some weird stuff) or use cans of spray paint to paint things on the ground somewhere.

If she acts up and gets nervous/fretful put her mind to work as well as her body....it is an excellent time to ask for more complicated things such as backing in an "L" or through/between some shrubs, doing a slow rollback, circling around other horses in figure 8's or other similar things. Practice a one rein stop until it is a habit/reflex. When you need it is not the time to try to think your way through it.

[Nezzy]

My horse can be a nutball with a large group. If there are more than 3 other horses he becomes very competitive. It's not easy to ride a horse like this. The safest thing is to stay with the group and ask them to understand what is going on. My last group ride i got lucky. i stuck him 3rd from the back and i relaxed myself as much as possible and after a little while he calmed down. I'm sorry i don't have an answer. But you are not alone.

[Watermark Farm]

Hey Jen, in my experience with OTTBs, groups can get some individuals hopped up (like a race). With those horses I tend to school trail riding with just one other horse that they like and do a ton of that. Then progress to very short sessions at home with a smaller group. Some horses never quite get it though. My eventing mare was a jigging mess on the trail despite hundreds of trail hours with me. But she could gallop an intermediate course with no fear.

[jenm]

Some horses just hate that sort of stuff. You own one of them

I was sort of thinking that as well!

If that means lead her- get off.

Yes, I did end up leading her about 1/2 the time and even with me on the ground, she was anxious and jigging.

She was clearly frazzled, probably shod, and on pavement.

We were on pavement for parts of the ride, and she went from barefoot to shoes, so being on the pavement did make me a tad nervous.

go out more shes not used to it, and ride middle rear and front and the worse thing you did was to get off as that rewarded her for a bad behaviour and made it tens times worse for you,

Most of the time, I would agree with you, but we were in the parking lot of a grocery store, cars were in motion in the parking lot, so were people with grocery carts. We were on pavement and it was very much an unsafe situation. If I had tried to stay on and school her, someone would have gotten hurt.

Probably too much too soon for her. Back up a bit and work with her in smaller groups (maybe the ones from your barn first) and do things like "leap frogging" on the trail....each horse gets to "leap" the leader while the leader goes to the rear...each gets to be leader, middle and trailer this way. You can also "braid" your ride where each rider goes out to the side some distance and then weaves back in and then out to the other side of the group. These kinds of exercises can help the horse that is a bit "herd bound" or "buddy sour" by teaching that they can be separated for short periods and will come back...and your horse can go out and come back as well. Increase time and distance apart and reward the horse when doing well out on her own. Another option is to take her out alone, go on a planned loop so there isn't a "go back the way we came" to get home. Go part way out, stop, loosen the cinch, brush/pet/visit with her, give her a treat or two and it won't be long until she thinks going out is wonderful. You can double up on this effect by making sticking around the barn/buddies the area where you do the hardest work..not necessarily the physically hardest but make her mind work. Horses are by nature conservative of energy (ie...lazy) so she will soon decide that being out on the trail is easier than being around the barn and buddies. You can practice with going over odd objects if you can find some (try flea markets/yard sales for some weird stuff) or use cans of spray paint to paint things on the ground somewhere.

If she acts up and gets nervous/fretful put her mind to work as well as her body....it is an excellent time to ask for more complicated things such as backing in an "L" or through/between some shrubs, doing a slow rollback, circling around other horses in figure 8's or other similar things. Practice a one rein stop until it is a habit/reflex. When you need it is not the time to try to think your way through it.

Lots of good suggestions here, thank you so much!

But you are not alone.

Thank you!

Hey Jen, in my experience with OTTBs, groups can get some individuals hopped up (like a race). With those horses I tend to school trail riding with just one other horse that they like and do a ton of that. Then progress to very short sessions at home with a smaller group. Some horses never quite get it though. My eventing mare was a jigging mess on the trail despite hundreds of trail hours with me. But she could gallop an intermediate course with no fear.

Thanks Katie, oddly enough, just like your mare, she also is fine out by herself on a cross country course!

[katarine]

Jen, it's not odd. she's an individual. Me, I hate crowds, hate the crush and hassle, hate all the moving parts attendant therein. Throw me out in the woods, alone on a horse or just alone, it's all good.

She's allowed to think hey guys, this is BS

[jenm]

Jen, it's not odd. she's an individual. Me, I hate crowds, hate the crush and hassle, hate all the moving parts attendant therein. Throw me out in the woods, alone on a horse or just alone, it's all good.

She's allowed to think hey guys, this is BS

LOL, katarine, I never thought of it that way! I also hate crowds and everything that goes along with it. I guess I learned the hard way and needed a reminder!!

[birdsong]

I ride MP and its always advised to stay on your horse. You have more control than you would on the ground. Hoping you had on a helmet.

When they begin to misbehave you have to give them something to do! Work them for a distraction and to keep the mind busy! Small circles, half halts, side passing...anything.

[dwblover]

Definitely sounds like a case of too much too soon. Although your horse may never become accustomed to parking lots and downtown areas. I'd stick with natural trails and smaller groups for quite a while. Reassure her that not every trail ride will be scary. Keep them short and simple and fun for her until she is totally relaxed. Some horses will always have a problem with a big group too. I think you were right to get off and lead the horse. If she would have slipped and fallen on the pavement that could have been life altering. Save the mounted schooling for a place with safe footing.

[Saidapal]

And be careful who you ride with.

If I rode with knowledgeable riders my OTTB mare was good with a fairly large group. Ride with what I called a bunch of ya-hoos and she would become a basket case. She just couldn't handle somebody suddenly sprinting into a canter from a stand still next to her without warning or flying by her in mach 10 without any notice. She would act like your horse, dance, jig, sideways, canter in place, it just wasn't fun for me and my usually well behaved horse could become downright dangerous. As long as I knew who I was riding with we would both have fun. We would announce, "Canter here?""Trot everybody?" So simple and yet so hard for some people to learn to be courteous. And we didn't dawdle believe me, we put some miles on those horses but we rode as a group. I learned to be very picky who I rode with.

[WildBlue]

I learned that I won't ever go on a group ride that is so disorganized and where safety of humans and horses may be compromised. However, what I don't know is what situations call for discipline (and how to discipline) and what situations call for patience and understanding. I did get after her when she tried to kick out at another horse, but I just tried to calmly ride through her other antics.

Suggestions?
(Please don't beat me up for staying with the group, I didn't feel comfortable leaving the group and going back to the trailer alone.)

It sounds like you did everything right after getting into a bad situation. It happens.

My rule of thumb is that it doesn't do a darn bit of good to school a horse if you can't get its attention focused on you. So, the first order of business is staying safe and looking for ways to calm the horse down. Sometimes dismounting does settle them down, even if you do have less control over the hindquarters. Sometimes their itty bitty mind has been totally blown and you're not going to get any schooling done that day, period, so you just try to safely extract yourself from the situation.

The only thing you didn't mention trying, and I don't know if it was even an option, is having a good horseman with a steady horse follow you at a bit of a distance (in case you needed help, but giving you space) while you let your horse walk as fast as she wanted down the trail alone (since you indicate that she's good alone, otherwise I'd keep the buddy closer). Being able to go foward in a safe, quiet place helps a lot of horses decompress and stop jigging, though it can take a while to work through the nerves.

You've gotten some good advice here. If there are specific things your horse did or didn't do (not listening to your leg, not leading politely, etc), then those are things to work on in future training sessions. Ditto for items that were particularly scary. As far as handling nutty situations... Yeah, in a perfect world horses would never have a meltdown, regardless of the situations we placed them in. And all children would be cute and well-behaved, all puppies would born housebroken, and all men would put down the toilet seat. <g> Since it's not, there's no shame (and a lot of wisdom) in listening to your gut and avoiding potentially bad situations.

[jenm]

I ride MP and its always advised to stay on your horse. You have more control than you would on the ground. Hoping you had on a helmet.

When they begin to misbehave you have to give them something to do! Work them for a distraction and to keep the mind busy! Small circles, half halts, side passing...anything.

I always, always, always wear a helmet.

As for staying on a horse in a sticky situation, had we been out on a trail somewhere, yes I would have stayed on. But as I mentioned before, this situation occurred in the entrance to the parking lot of a grocery store where there were moving cars, and people. My horse was backing up, and going sideways, anything she could do to avoid walking over a metal grate that was less than a foot wide. I would have loved to have been able to stay on and school her, but the odds of her backing into a person or a car were pretty high. I can't imagine that anyone would advise a person to stay on a horse in a situation where there are non-horse people in the area who don't understand that an anxious horse needs space.

When I got off and lead her, she was fine and had no issues.

[jenm]

Shame on me!

Well, now I feel like a horrible owner. The chiro I use comes to the barn every Tuesday, so I asked him to take a look at my girl. She had ribs out on both sides, her pelvis was out and her knee was hyper-extended. While this doesn't explain her acting up in the parking lot, it does explain her over all pissy attitude on the ride.

I should really learn that when she gets super pissy, it's because something hurts. I feel terrible that I missed it this time. I usually try to check her back once a week, but I haven't been riding her lately, my trainer has, so I got out of the habit. Yes, I'm kicking myself for being so dumb.

I also want to thank those of you who had great suggestions about better ways to get my horse to relax more on trail rides. I look forward to working with her on this and love that you have given me some concrete suggestions on what to work on and how to do it.

Thank You!!