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Ugh. Free "rescue" horse for sale now with false claims. Vent.

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  • Originally posted by KimPeterson:
    Interesting that the law doesn't apply to racing industry?? I would think they would need it most of all!
    Horse racing, and more to the point, gambling money, are important in NJ.
    Again, no little of the law except from reading the papers though can ask an almost lawyer if needed. My impression is no release, warning or any other paperwork will help you if you are found to have known of a dangerous situation that is not usual ie a dog with bite history, a horse with unknown bucking or attack history. You may or may not need to tell..depends on issue. But still can be found at fault.
    The dog rescue, the barn owner, the horse trader(if I understand this with dogs at least) is presumed to have a higher level of knowledge of the behaviors and what is not normal, therefor more responsible if something goes wrong. I would NEVER place a dog with bite history. If I was positive the dog bit because a toddler bit first or whatever I might try to find it a home, but a dog who actually bit? no.

    Comment


    • My point is all horses can buck, if a horse bucks once in it's life you are best off still saying then in any situation that a horse can and may buck I guess no matter if it has or not with you... If you are a private person not a horse trader, anyway you only have knowledge of what the horse has done while with you... I am saying - than the safest thing to do is to just say every horse bucks and may bite (IE person feeding carrot the wrong way, or may kick - horse swats at fly and hits person is one sernario I can think of) I wouldn't call any horse that swatted at a fly or bucked when green or when something spooked him dangerous, but from what you are saying you are better off informing people that those situations are possible.

      Where do you stop? Horses are animals, unpredictable and BIG so even the best behaved have an off day..even if it is the handlers fault you have to forsee any future incident that may arise?? Thats crazy?

      Comment


      • Must say NightMare, you are handling these posts in a very mature manner! It is obvious to those who knows better that you are just trying to prevent someone else from being injured and the horse from going to an unsuitable home.

        Comment


        • Just one thought on this -

          I had a horse who developed neurological issues. The vet proclaimed her "dangerous to ride" in that she was off-kilter enough that she stumbled fairly often. I don't know if the vet was trying to protect himself or me, but he told me that under no circumstances should she be ridden because it was just too risky.

          In the current story, the horse was determined "untrustworthy" and "dangerous to ride" by two different professionals.

          Now here's my question/pondering: I returned the horse with the neuro issues (was only leasing her), owner received full diagnosis and vet records from the incident. She maintains, however, that there's nothing wrong with the horse. She is planning on reselling her this year. So, just because in her opinion (and she does have 40 years in the industry, though I think she is blinded by the fact that she bred/raised/trained the horse herself) the horse is fine, are we saying that the vet's official statement that the horse was dangerous to ride would not have to be disclosed to a prospective purchaser? The neuro issues are noticeable, yes, but only if you're specifically looking for them. Easier to see when the footing is good, because on crappy footing, a lot of tripping seems normal. Owner has crappy footing in her arena. Translation: buyer could honestly not know if the horse had issues just during a test ride.

          Similarly, are we then saying that, because of one person's opinion that the horse is "working through his issues and is almost over them," the conclusions of two other trainers (one of which spent over 6 mo with him, correct?) do not have to be disclosed to the buyer? Just because he only bucks once every six months instead of once a month or something? And the buyer should beware that the horse might injure or kill them in one of these episodes even though it was never disclosed to them that this occurred, nor did the horse exhibit these symptoms while being evaluated for purchase?

          I can't believe that. Just because the current owner thinks the issue is over, whether it's medical or behavioral, it's okay not to mention these things? So if a horse colics a good 2-3 times a year, even though it's random and unpredictable, and then for a year it doesn't colic, it can be proclaimed "over" this problem? And if the horse doesn't colic while the prospective rider is buying it, they have no recourse whatsoever? That's lunacy.

          IF, however, they were to say "Hey, he had these problems with colic in the past, and he was actually given to us because of that. Two vets said he would always have these problems and recommended euthanasia. We wanted to give him a chance, though, so we put him on a special diet that had worked for another horse with similar issues. In the time we've had him, he's only colicked once, several months ago, and has been fine after that." Now see, if a buyer chose to get the horse after receiving this info, caveat emptor. But just "No colic/bucking/neuro episodes for _ months!" doesn't make the horse not have that condition. If after 5 years the horse hasn't had an episode, THEN you can possibly claim that the issues were resolved. One year? I don't think so. Hell, one could ride the horse 2x in that whole year, which both happened to be buck-free days, and then claim to have fixed the horse. Yeah, right.
          Last edited by TB or not TB?; Mar. 9, 2006, 08:54 PM.

          Comment


          • RedHunter--

            It is incorrect to say that a seller who misrepresents a horse has no exposure to liability if the buyer, relying on these misrepresentations, buys the horse and then gets hurt.

            I have no idea if in fact this horse is being misrepresented, but to say generally that any horse seller is insulated from any liability in any circumstances through caveat emptor (buyer beware) or assumption of the risk is just not the law in any state that I am aware of. The buyer could have remedies under both a contract (warranty) theory and a tort theory. Regarding the former, some warranties / representations can be disclaimed in a sales contract (provided that it is drafted properly, which is rare), but not all warranties can be disclaimed in all states (eg warranty of fitness for a particular purpose).

            There is case law on this. Do a Westlaw search.

            The barn owner has done the horse owner no favors, either, regardless of how well intentioned the post. The barn owner had confirmed that, as the OP claimed, New Owner promised a "forever home" (just not with new owner, wink wink), the horse has "issues" that they have "all" witnessed, and these issues are not yet resolved (on the road to resolving them is not the same thing).
            Roseknoll Sporthorses
            www.roseknoll.net

            Comment


            • Oh, poor henry. I haven't seen him for a long time, but I do remember him from standing by the arena watching me and Mac's lessons.
              ----------------------------------
              I Am A Iron Tiger (aka Codi)
              2004 15.3 Grullo QH Gelding

              Comment


              • YankeeLawyer, thank you for posting that. I was hoping that I had indeed read something about disclosure and responsibility on the part of a horse's seller. Nice to know that it wasn't that I'd got into the cooking sherry again. ;-)
                In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
                A life lived by example, done too soon.
                www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

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                • If any of you actually replied to the add on Lennox, you would of gotten a reply from the owner that said "call me and I will tell you his story". There is nothing wrong with people marketing something to get people's attention. The person selling Lennox has never been misleading about him. I understand how Nightmares may feel.. it is just the person selling Lennox is not the person that has been portrayed. She made a mistake about the pictures and complied when asked to change them... current pictures would have been good, but maybe there was a perfectly good reason for that as well. Once again... The person who owns Lennox does not own my farm, and there is no way I would ever be liable. It is my opinion that Lennox would be a good horse for an understanding, experienced, and informed person. He is so young and talented and will either stay with his current owner, or go to a home she sees fit because...well... he is her horse.

                  Comment


                  • post your own copy of your picture

                    give just the facts:
                    you took this picture of this horse
                    you gave the horse away as "known to be dangerous" on X date,
                    with the verbal understand it was not to be resold.
                    heads up!
                    if this horse is for sale: Caveat Emptor.
                    Last edited by armandh; Mar. 14, 2006, 05:43 AM.
                    more hay, less grain

                    Comment


                    • Two Simple- I am very surprised that you would be so quick to believe what Cypress said about saddle marks and hoof wear. You don't seem to be the type of person to jump to conclusions so quickly. Of course the current owner, or the person defending her, is going to try and justify his past behaviours by alleging abuse or neglect. This makes it easier to justify to potential buyers how he could be fixed so quickly.

                      I am sure that Nightmare, having tried so many different trainers and so many avenues to work with Henry, would have observed something so obvious as improper saddle fit and saddle marks.

                      One thing I'm curious about is if a chiropractor or accupuncturist was ever consulted with Henry. Sometimes they can work medical miracles with a bucking horse!
                      Erin and
                      Instant Karma "Sunny", ShineDown "Liam"

                      "You can't control the wind, but you can adjust the sails."

                      Comment

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