Ugh. Free "rescue" horse for sale now with false claims. Vent.

[beausgirl]

Is that jumping 4.5 over a fence, or just to dislodge rider? Sproing, sproing...

[Trixie]

It's curious that they actually list people on their website as "Barn Goddess."

[3fatponies]

Um, I know this will no doubt require the use of a flame suit, but honestly, what did you expect? I ask that in a generalized way, not just to the OP, but to everyone who gives away a horse, especially an "unrideable" one.

I see horses in the Giveaway section all the time--do you honestly believe that ALL those horses go on to great lifetime homes?? If you can't or won't do care for them yourselves, what makes you think someone else will? Because they say so? What kind of loyalty will they feel to your horse if things get tough or money gets tight paying for joint meds and senior feed?

And even assuming that you check their place etc., what guarantee do you have that they will do what they say? A contract?? Come on now, let's be realistic....

Every week there are new horses advertised there, and let's face it, most are unrideable. If you love the animal that much, then you need to either keep it yourself, put it down or take your chances--honestly admitting that it may not end up safe and well. Sorry to mention so many ugly things, but I think people frequently kid themselves about things like this because it's easier.

Flame suit on. *zip*

[caffeinated]

Originally posted by Alagirl:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dazednconfused:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NightMare:
tbluv, I KNOW! I am sure they viewed me as the most pathetic "gunsil" ever!

Um, I have to ask...what in the heck is a "Gunsil"??? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You - if you have to ask!

I am not sure what the Webster has to say, but in HR terms - sort of - it is a person not yet enlightened by the Parelli methods... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The dictionary definition is somewhat different. LOL.

[ESG]

What IS the dictionary definition, anyway? Can't seem to find it in mine.

[NightMare]

3fatponies, you won't be getting flamed by me.

I thought it was worth a try. Henry needed to go. He loved people and being worked with - not being ridden. My own sister worships at the shrine of PP. I see "NH" clinics monthly here where I live with horse owners who are probably never going to ride their horses but spend hours and hours on ground handling. They spend money on clinics and gear and have trailers - and they do not ride. I have first hand knowledge that there are plenty of people who don't need to ride to be into horse ownership, and a LOT of them follow PP. Some of them are certainly on this board.

Put this attitude together with a "save all horses" rescue mentality and many acres of open pasture ... and it was definitely worth a try.

If Henry was bad on the ground I would have had him put down. He was a prince on the ground. A wretched hand could have handled him on the ground, except when he was panicked - which he was by the trailer fiasco. That was the only time I ever saw him panic on the ground.

It was not that I "loved him that much," it was that I thought he deserved what might be a good, and maybe last, chance.

I do stand by the decision I made at the time, with the information I had, but it did not turn out as I'd hoped. She is within her rights to sell him. I'm still pissed and concerned. I am waiting to hear back from some helpful folks who are inquiring about Henry before I approach her myself. I want to know exactly what she is claiming to inquiring parties before I go. I want to know what she says about his known history and experience / training since she's had him. I do know that the jumping picture she sends out has my daughter riding him - his second time over jumps, 2 years ago. I will be putting a stop to that. So far, she has not sent an under saddle picture to anyone besides that one.

[caffeinated]

Interesting. Last time this conversation happened, google yielded whole lots of results for it as a slang term for "homosexual"

It also means "hoodlum" under the alternate spelling, specifically, a hoodlum with a gun.

(it is there on several websites, but they don't seem family oriented. LOL)

[fourhorses]

No flame suit required 3fat -- at least not from me. You pretty much tell it like it is -- there's very little way you can assure that your giveaway horse is going to go to an appropriate forever home, and no way of enforcing your wishes where the horse is concerned with the people who take it. That being said sometimes you get lucky and the horse ends up in the best of circumstances, but it can end up differently too -- even if you think you know the people really well.
Sorry you find yourself in such a position OP; I think you should be able to pull those photos from the ad as they are yours and why risk being affiliated with that train wreck, but these "rescuers" sound as though their in the hoss-tradin' biz, and there's really nothing that can be done about that.

[NightMare]

Oh, one more self-defensive thing:

My main problem is NOT that she failed to give this horse a "forever home." It is that she is offering him for $7,000 to the general public, knowing his issues, with hugely inflated claims.

[MissintheSouth]

I am not just saying this to make you feel better NightMare, but I probably would have done the same darn thing.

If you look at the farm website, the facilities look great. It seems that they have more than adequate pastures and stalls seeing as he was going to a home where he wouldn't be ridden. I do think that in our own little riders' bubble it seems no one wants an unridable horse, but there are tons of NH people who love to work on the ground. Many of these people who worship the P also have that "Black Beauty Complex" as well-wanting to tame the wild thing that no one else can handle. I would have seen his owners as a little crazy, but harmless. If Henry(Lennox) was safe on the ground, the worst these folks could do was annoy him with scarf tossing and lunging.

I would see what the owners tell prospective buyers. If they are honest and say that he has issues, then I wouldn't worry about it-buyer beware. If she misrepresents him, I would give her a call and let her know that you know she is misrepresting the horse and that could put her in a bad legal stance if the buyer is injured. Nothing wrong with a polite reminder that you are watching her.

[3fatponies]

Originally posted by NightMare:
I thought it was worth a try. Henry needed to go. He loved people and being worked with - not being ridden. My own sister worships at the shrine of PP. I see "NH" clinics monthly here where I live with horse owners who are probably never going to ride their horses but spend hours and hours on ground handling. They spend money on clinics and gear and have trailers - and they do not ride.

I do stand by the decision I made at the time, with the information I had, but it did not turn out as I'd hoped.

Thanks for not thinking I am being nasty--I honestly feel for you and can only imagine what is rolling around in your head and stomach right now. And, having seen the PP shrine-types, I can see why you thought it would work out for Henry. I am honestly sorry that it didn't. I just don't trust people much anymore--I've got 15 years of small animal rescue under my belt with various rescues and that makes it very hard to believe in best intentions anymore.

I hope that this works out and you and Henry can both find some peace of mind.

[vxf111]

I love the idea of you sending her, certified mail, all the letters and documentation showing Henry's past history. Worst case scenario-- at least she can't say you never told her. Best case scenario-- she'll pass them along to the new buyer and at least represent him truthfully as a talented but possible dangerous horse.

I do think that any serious rider with any experience and $7000 to spend to buy a jumper: (1) probably wouldn't be shopping there anyway; (2) would notice the blatant misrepresentations and weirdness when it comes to Henry's background (is his registered name really "Lennox Wee Pot o' Gold"? if not, when potential buyers ask to see papers they'll realize the seller lies); (3) will recognize within a test ride that the horse is seriously misrepresented and will pass.

Don't beat yourself up, we all try to do the best we can. Next time though-- WRITTEN CONTRACT.

P.s.- I do think these women misrepresented themselves to you. That have almost 30 horses for sale/lease, many from auction. That doesn't exactly seem like what they initially represented themselves to be-- mushy parelli nonsense or not.

[pegasus209]

I gotta agree about calling her, berating her for misrepresenting herself, and getting him back if possible. A year later and she's trying to get 7k out of him, and misrepresenting him to boot? sheesh!!
On a side note, do you think he would be okay to drive? I would have loved for the chance for a horse like that, even if he proved explosive driving, he could probably babysit weanlings, learn liberty tricks, etc.
I'm sorry this is happening, people really suck sometimes.

[NightMare]

That really IS his registered name, I fear ... because she took him to an inspection for the AWS after she got him! I bet she found that name on one of those internet "name searches" - you know, like you can find your Goth name, your Rapper name, and I suppose she searched for Henry's Leprechaun Name. Why you would want the word "Wee" in the name of a big boy like that ... why would you want the word "Wee" in any horse's name? Or, "Pot," either?

[Kaleidoscope]

I've been on both ends of things like this ... the giver ... and the receiver, though not necessarily as an informed recipient ...

The one thing I have learned is that there are horses that are unsafe and are not candidates for rehabilitation. There are not too many situations/trainers that are able to deal with these individuals knowledgeably and responsibly either.

... and whether I like it or not, the only way that I can guarantee a dangerous horse does not get into a situation where it is able to do damage to someone ... is if I make the decision to put that horse down and have it done.

There are some good horses that deserve another chance ... and I've met a few in my lifetime that I do feel did not need another chance to hurt someone.

[jacksmom]

as the VERY grateful recipient of a 'giveaway' this whole posting makes me very sad. i'm sad for all the people who will read this post and think that there aren't good homes out there for thier horses. please, don't let this bad apple spoil the whole bunch.

nm, i'm sorry that you put your trust in the wrong person. hindsight is 20/20 - i read your posting about this gelding and felt that you really did your best to do the right thing for him. i'm hoping that some of that good karma will carry him to a better place. (i also KNOW that his new owner is really setting herself up for a good bite having misrepresented herself and now this horse.)

for anyone considering re-homing a horse, do your homework. my freebies former mom did - she spoke with my vet and my farrier. she knew that i didn't market horses and that her mare would be a good fit for my farm plans. i also had no hesitation putting 'in writing' my intentions and a 'right of first refusal' should i ever need to find another home for the horse.

the result for me was that i have a lovely mare who softly wuffles to me every morning at breakfast. she is, hands down, the nicest thing that anyone has ever given to me. i hope to have her (and her offspring!) for many years to come.

[fourhorses]

Sorry this is happening; you seem like a person who got burnt by their own good intentions, and I certainly would hate to see anybody hurt by this horse too, but there really isn't much you can do except call this place up, request that your photos not be used for their sale info. and giving them a piece of your mind in the meanwhile.
Some of these NH/P worshipping types are wolves in sheeps clothing -- they've latched on to the "rescue/NH" label to hide what they really are: really inept, unethical horse-traders. I've got nothing against rescues or NH methods personally, but it's a really good front/cover for creeps who're out to make a fast buck and prey upon the uninformed public's thinking they're caring, concerned, and intelligent horsepeople.
Just mo.

[fourhorses]

And I was snorting over the name -- I was thinking the same thing to myself before I saw your last post "God, what a strange moniker for such a big horse"
Hey, look on the bright side, maybe he'll end up dumping one of those Macarena Amazon Riding Cult womyn who comes out to test ride him -- thus giving them that karmic payback which I mentioned on that post

[Magnolia]

Interesting that all of their wonderful riding horses that they have for sale.... aren't represented with riding photos. I know not everyone has show photos, but its not that hard to snap a photo or two of a horse jumping. Oh well, sucker born every minute, I guess.

[Auventera Two]

Well I'm for sure putting on the flame suit because I *KNOW* I'll need it. (sigh)

Anyway, horses can and DO change. I have a friend who owns a grade gelding, about 17 years old. He was 10 before he was halter broken. She started breaking him and went very slowly over the course of a whole year. He was actually very sweet and gentle to work with and trusted her completely. She started taking him out farther away from the barn and his spooks started getting bigger and more dangerous. Leaves would rustle and he'd launch into this huge bucking, bolting, spinning, shaking fear episode.

She worked with a handful of different trainers and started boarding him. He moved to 3 different barns and every trainer basically said that due to his late start, he would be seized with this fear forever. They did try very hard but he was just wasn't snapping out of it.

Enter trainer number 4. Trainer number 4 was a miracle worker, if ever one lived. He was a hunter jumper trainer and show rider with an "old time cowboy" attitude. He did use a lot of natural horsemanship tactics and believed that horses should "just be horses."

In just a few short weeks the horse was trail riding ALONE with no spooks and bolts. He was jumping 18" fences and even galloping on the racetrack just for fun. For the first time ever he could actually canter a whole circle in the indoor arena without bolting out from under his rider.

That was 2 years ago and the horse is a saint now. He's back at home and she rides him alone, in the woods, down the trails, and feels 110% safe. Trainer 4 was able to get his attention and his trust enough to change him forever. So yeah, I believe that horses can change.

Also I want to say that when you sell a horse to someone, I hate to say it, but what they do with that horse is then their business, not yours. Unless you have a contract.

If you are truly concerned, maybe it would help if you called the woman and talked to her very straight forward. Tell her that you saw the ad and you are scared someone will get hurt. LISTEN TO HER STORY! Maybe the horse HAS changed. Maybe he outgrew his bucking. Maybe there were underlying saddle fit issues or bad teeth, or lameness that caused bucking at your place. A neighbor even told me her horse was behaving very badly and they eventually found out that he could sense/feel stray voltage from a faulty power line. The power company fixed it, and the horse's behavior straightened right up. So.......hey......stranger things have happened! lol

Hey! One of my horses was lame for 2 years and subsequently bucking bucking bucking bucking. I was scared to ride. Once we figured out that she had bad feet, and actually fixed the problem, she quit bucking totally. Never bucked again. Only a tiny crowhop once in a great while if she was "fresh."