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FEMA Director Mike Brown was fired by the IAHA??? - Katrina TIMELINE on p.17

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  • #41
    Thanks Erin, I had not seen that. OMG, is that story distressing.

    I guess the survivors should have staged a mock terrorist attack to get them down there sooner.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~:<~
    \"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda.\"—George W. Bush

    Comment


    • #42
      I can't recall all the sordid details on the Boggs/Brown/IAHA debacle, but it was something like this:

      David Boggs had cosmetic surgery perforemd on a number of horses, including removing muscle tissue to thin the throatlatch and tatooing the sclera of the eyes.
      One of the horses won the national halter stallion title.

      A disaffected employee had polaroids.

      Brown went after Boggs.
      The rank and file of IAHA were initally thrilled. Finally the Big Hairs were getting their comeuppance for all the crap that had been going on for years.

      Then things began to unravel.

      Here's where it becomes confusing enough that my memory is not reliable.

      (What I did and still do believe is that Boggs was guilty, but was thrown to the mob as a sacrifice. He'd pissed off enough of the other heavy hitters with his arrogance that they were happy to see him nailed. and they figured that would satisfy the great unwashed, and then they could get back to business as usual.)

      There were problems within the Boggs investigation, with promises being made to certain people about many things.

      Then, a year or so later, another trainer *faked* qualifications for a couple national championship horses. Actually fabricated an entire competitive trail ride, so the halter horses could get the performance point they needed to compete at nationals.
      (I ended up filing an affadavit for a complainant who got screwed out of an amateur championship by one of these illegally entered horses.)

      The problem was, one of the trainers involved was one of the "good guys" according to Brown. He had testified against Boggs. So Mike didn't want to go after him.

      In fact, someone at IAHA got wind of the fact that people were suspicious of this "Tree Top Ride" that had never been advertised anywhere, and where only horses under the control of this trainer and a buddy were apparently entered.
      So someone at IAHA gave Gallun a "heads up" that he might want to make sure he got another point or two somewhere. He took a horse into a very small Western Pleasure class with another guy on a horse to make up the minimum 3 horse class for the ribbon to count (same fellow who, IIRC, had been the steward on the Tree Top ride...) and theother guy was seen to be deliberately switching gaits and screwing up to insure that his mount didn't beat the National Contender.

      IAHA was presented with information about this *before* Nationals, and refused to consider it. They were presented with the information again *after* Nationals, and then had a different excuse as to why it wasn't a legitimate issue. The amateur/owner who got screwed then went to (then) AHSA, who had to threaten IAHA, that if they didn't follow their own rules, they'd take action.

      Mike was right in the middle of all this muck.

      Then there were lawsuits all around about the horses which had had plastic surgery, and whether or not Brown could prove that the surgery wasn't legitimate, and all kinds of other BS.

      Mike had, by this time, alienated everyone who had been happy to see Boggs go down.

      All in all, what I recall most was that it was a depressing mess, and reminded me why I didn't take showing seriously.
      "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

      ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

      Comment


      • #43
        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by carolprudm:
        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nhwr:
        Here is an audio link to Nagin's interview this morning

        http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9173940/site/newsweek/

        My God! The idiocy. Bush and his administration are killing this country. FEMA was in LA before Katrina hit, why didn't they help people evacuate? 1 in 4 people in New Orleans live in poverty. This includes many, many children and eldery people. How could they leave, where could they go without assistance of some kind?

        So much for Homeland security! This is a disgrace </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
        Why didn't they put people who didn't have transport on school busses and NO transit busses and even hotel shuttle and tour buses and get them outta there before the storm hit??
        I know they couldn't have gotten them all out but it would have been a start? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

        They tried to bring them to shelters outside the city - they would not leave. The mayor also told them that due to the "short notice" the dome did not have all necessary supplies. They were told to bring food, water, clothing and bedding...enough to last three to five days.

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        • #44
          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nhwr:
          Here is an audio link to Nagin's interview this morning

          http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9173940/site/newsweek/

          My God! The idiocy. Bush and his administration are killing this country. FEMA was in LA before Katrina hit, why didn't they help people evacuate? 1 in 4 people in New Orleans live in poverty. This includes many, many children and eldery people. How could they leave, where could they go without assistance of some kind?

          So much for Homeland security! This is a disgrace </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

          oh my god - I wanted to give him a standing ovation - and a hug
          Nothing says "I love you" like a tractor. (Clydejumper)

          The reports states, “Elizabeth reported that she accidently put down this pony, ........, at the show.”

          Comment


          • #45
            Ghazzu: "and they figured that would satisfy the great unwashed, and then they could get back to business as usual."

            And after reading the FEMA expose I was thinking Brown didn't have the experience to go to DC. Was I ever wrong.
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~:<~
            \"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda.\"—George W. Bush

            Comment


            • #46
              I guess this is somehow horse related..
              The thing about smart people, is they look like crazy people, to dumb people.

              Comment


              • #47
                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jumphigh83:
                I guess this is somehow horse related.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                You don't find a scandal relating to national championship halter horses to be horse related?

                Boy, you're a tough audience.
                "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

                Comment


                • #48
                  This situation was anticipated http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9175204/

                  This problem is the result of failed leadership and policies that are removed from reality. More and more, FEMA looks like a political organization. They were all over Florida in the hurricane season before the last election. Though they now admit they "over gave" and are suing to get the money back.

                  We could mobilize aid to a hostile Islamic nation on the other side of the world faster than we mobilized support for poor Americans. And it begs the larger question, how is it that we are so casual about this kind of poverty? Shame on us
                  See those flying monkeys? They work for me.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #49
                    Ghazzu: thanks for the background.

                    queasy:
                    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      My GOD people. What on earth do you think you are doing to help the problem by criticizing? Unless you are able to step in and take over the whole effort, it is RIDCULOUS to sit back and complain, complain, complain. Do you realize how DIFFICULT all of this is? Casting blame does NOTHING to help the situation.

                      I work with members of Texas Task Force 1, one of the biggest rescue efforts going in there. Part of the Task Force is sent in by FEMA, part summoned from other authrorities. I know what these guys are doing. I know the training they have had, the preparation they have had, the efforts they are putting into this. The sacrifices they are making.

                      How DARE you come in and criticize what they are doing based on what you THINK you know about the situation. Fact is, this is something that the United States has NEVER dealt with before, at least in "modern" times. Nobody had a freaking CLUE how to respond because we are HUMANS, not because we are BAD or WRONG or CARELESS. The responders have been trained to the HIGHEST standards. If you question that, I challenge you to come to College Station, stay with me, we'll go visit the facilities where many of the world's TOP emergency responders have been trained. There will be no question in your mind. And then you can go take ONE DAY in Bush's shoes, or Brown's shoes... and you see if you can do a better job. My God, people, anyone can look back on a situation and say "Well it should have happened this way..." But when you've got the world and the country and your own life pulling you in a thousand different directions with "this needs attention" and "that needs attention," NOBODy is going to see everythignt hat needs to be done, and nobody knows the future. Then try making those decisions in a situation like this where NOBODY can think clearly for the sheer pain of what they are seeing. It's all fine and dandy to say that "A leader should be able to think clearly in any situation, a leader should always see clearly the most important things, a leader should always make the decisions the way I want them..." But let me tell you, if that is your definition of leader, there isn't a single leader in the world. The world is an imperfect place. The world is a tragic place. And if you think you can do better, by all means, RUN FOR OFFICE.

                      This is why I like horses. They don't make ridiculous judgements about things that can't be changed, they just eat grass.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        I have read most of the posts on this thread.

                        I am sad and sick over the plight of my fellow citizens. We have people dying not from the hurricane but from lack of water, food, medications, medical help, and shelter. You all know this.

                        Frankly, I do not know this Mike Brown. However, if he is truly the director for disaster relief in my country- my home land. he has failed. This is the USA and no one should have to go five days without water and food in this country that sends relief so quickly to other nations

                        I am truly ashamed that my fellow citizens of my country have been so abandoned.

                        I have donated money and you probably have too but what good is that if the supplies are not delivered. Animal or plants we can only survive "X" number of days without food and water. Shelter at this point is a luxury.

                        I am sad and ashamed!!!

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Archie no-one is criticising the people on the ground (and I know at least a dozen people who are out there driving boats and wielding chainsaws right now). We are criticising the leadership that is making it damn near impossible for those people to do the jobs that nees doing.

                          I run logistics to very remote places all the time so I have some idea of the challenges of running helicopter relays and gassing up boats where there are no pumps (you only get about 3-5 mpg with an outboard). Getting people off the roofs was a nightmare from the start given the conditions and the small capacity craft being used but there is NO reason for it to take nearly a week to get supplies there or for the director of FEMA not to know about 25,000 refugees at a convention center live on TV. None whatsoever. I'm quite sure the on the ground staff would have been happy to help. I read that the locally stationed marines showed up expecting to be deployed to assist somehow and were told that they could put their names on a list and someone would get back to them after Labor Day Weekend. That is F'ed up.

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            FEMA’s purpose is to have a plan for these kinds of foreseeable disasters.

                            It’s true that Katrina disproportionately impacted the lives of the very poorest of the poor, but it impacted thousands of others as well. There is no excuse for this failure of leadership. None!!

                            Here are some text messages begging for help (reported in the NYDN): <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
                            Doctors, patients and staff are stranded at Baptist Hospital. My brother, Dr. Bryant King, is stranded there and has been sending occasional text messages to let us know the situation. Yesterday, management at the hospital decided to selectively withhold food and water from patients. Doctors are being forced to decide who gets to live and who will starve to death. My brother argued with them, refusing to do it, that's when he called to ask for help. Rachelle King

                            Save Methodist hospital - urgent! I just received a phone call from my sister, it is 1:20ish in the morning and she has just informed me that FEMA is not helping them at all. They are out of water, food and diesel fuel for the generator. There are 700 people in the 3rd floor lobby, about 50 of staff, and around 50-60 patients (a few have been evacuated but the rest of died). This is no joke, if we don't get help to my parents and everyone in the hospital may die. Phillip Barrocas

                            1200+ patients and medical staff are stranded at University Hospital on Perdido Street. Women are giving birth in the halls and patients are dying. Newborns and many others will not survive for much longer. Boats have been seen going to Charity Hospital, but completely ignore those at University Hospital. Please, someone help! The food and water dropped on the roof of the hospital has not withstood the drop and has broken upon hitting the roof and therefore cannot be eaten/drunk. The situation is deteriorating QUICKLY! Dennis Montelibano </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
                            It took this country 4 days to get 4 thousand National Guard troops to New Orleans to respond to the overwhelming need for water, food and order… said need having been predicted accurately on August 28th ( and for years before). Taking four days to respond is disgraceful. This is not a situation where the federal government had to get permission from a foreign government or fly over hostile air space. FEMA already had legal authority to act and to act immediately. There is no excuse for the suffering and death that occurred in New Orleans these past four days.
                            Logres Farm on Facebook
                            http://logresfarmpintowarmbloods.com/
                            http://logresdobermans.com/

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                            • #54
                              Thanks Cartier. My god, can you imagine the stories to be told. I hope they got help.

                              For those criticizing the critics I'd like to ask, just when will this country be ready for a disaster? We weren't ready for 9/11 and we weren't ready for Katrina and a lot in between (unless you were in Florida last year at election time). And when should we start criticizing exactly? 3 weeks from now when the deaths are tallied? This is just the beginning of seeing what went very, very wrong.

                              A day after 9/11 there were semi trucks filled with food and water from major corporations and organizations. Barges offshore were filled with donations of food and water and clothing that was not used and eventually went to warehouses. I'd venture to say those *same* companies have been offering that same assistance but have been told they'd get back to them.

                              We can't get even fresh drinking water to thousands stranded in New Orleans? How can you not see what's wrong with this picture?
                              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~:<~
                              \"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda.\"—George W. Bush

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                              • #55
                                Our survival will depend upon the American people making wise informed choices… about the leadership of this great country… about our priorities ... about how we treat our fellow citizens, and about how we prepare to respond to disasters. The choices are ours.
                                Logres Farm on Facebook
                                http://logresfarmpintowarmbloods.com/
                                http://logresdobermans.com/

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                                • #56
                                  Finally read Bush's comments from yesterday. When your boss says what you've done is unacceptable you're going down. Who knows how many more people died because of their lack of mitigation and inaction after the hurricane. Brown will be replaced next week I'll bet. Just hope he doesn't turn up at a horse association again.
                                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~:<~
                                  \"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda.\"—George W. Bush

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    What did the Federal Government know and when did they know it? Quoting from the New York Times:

                                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There was shock at the slow response: Joseph P. Riley Jr., the 29-year Democratic mayor of Charleston, S.C., and a veteran of Hurricane Hugo's wrath, said: "I knew in Charleston, looking at the Weather Channel, that Gulfport was going to be destroyed. I'm the mayor of Charleston, but I knew that!"

                                    But perhaps most of all there was shame, a deep collective national disbelief that the world's sole remaining superpower could not - or at least had not - responded faster and more forcefully to a disaster that had been among its own government's worst-case possibilities for years.
                                    …
                                    Around the nation, and indeed the world, the reaction to Hurricane Katrina's devastation stretched beyond the usual political recriminations and swift second-guessing that so often follow calamities. In dozens of interviews and editorials, feelings deeper and more troubled bubbled to the surface in response to the flooding and looting that "humbled the most powerful nation on the planet," and showed "how quickly the thin veneer of civilization can be stripped away," as The Daily Mail of London put it.
                                    …
                                    Andrew Young, the former civil rights worker and mayor of Atlanta who was Jimmy Carter's ambassador to the United Nations, was born in New Orleans 73 years ago, walked on its levees as a boy and "was always assured by my father that the Army Corps of Engineers had done a masterful job." But, Mr. Young said, "they've been neglected for the last 20 years," along with other pillars of the nation's infrastructure, human and physical.

                                    "I was surprised and not surprised," he said of the failures and suffering of this week.

                                    "It's not just a lack of preparedness. I think the easy answer is to say that these are poor people and black people and so the government doesn't give a damn," he said. "That's O.K., and there might be some truth to that. But I think we've got to see this as a serious problem of the long-term neglect of an environmental system on which our nation depends. All the grain that's grown in Iowa and Illinois, and the huge industrial output of the Midwest has to come down the Mississippi River, and there has to be a port to handle it, to keep a functioning economy in the United States of America." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                    This is a wake up call folks... America is a great country... but we have to remain focused on what makes us great... we need to take care of our people, our environment and our infrastructure.
                                    Logres Farm on Facebook
                                    http://logresfarmpintowarmbloods.com/
                                    http://logresdobermans.com/

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                                    • #58
                                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jumphigh83:
                                      I guess this is somehow horse related.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                      Well, way back when in this thread, I actually did ask what I believe to be a valid horse-related question, so with your permission I'll reiterate it here...

                                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> What I'd like to know more about, if we know, is the allegation that he spun off money intended for IAHA's legal defense fund into his own legal defense fund once the lawsuits started flying. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                      Ghazzu, thanks for responding. Anyone else hooked into the Arabian horse scene have any comments?
                                      "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Here is an article from the Washington Post, dated Tuesday morning, by the director of emergency preparedness in Seattle on what FEMA has become.
                                        FEMA and priorities

                                        And here is an article in today's Post on what the US gov., including FEMA, is doing today and how they are viewed by people on the ground in Miss and La.
                                        Today on the ground

                                        I'm from Miss, and I have no idea how we are going to pay for all the damage, since we have lost so much casino revenue and casino related job income (and multipliers) from the Coast. We couldn't balance the budget before the storm; now we will be in dire straits--with a governor who has stated flatly in the past that he will veto all new taxes.

                                        Once again, poor Mississippi is being ignored in all the national news. From what our state newspaper wrote on Wednesday, looting on the Miss. Coast has been going on since the minute people could get out after the storm. Even places as far inland as Hattiesburg have been severely wind damaged. Jackson still is without power in many places, and the police have been in place at GAS stations, for pete's sake.

                                        All the relief will be going to Louisiana, and we will have to fend for ourselves. Our governor, who is a Bush crony, refuses to admit that the administration's response has been anything less than ideal.
                                        "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
                                        Thread killer Extraordinaire

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                                        • #60
                                          WEll vineyridge maybe people will beign to realise that being the governor or mayor is a practical position not best filled by some idealogue who has never done an honest days work in their life. I practically cheered when I heard Nagin ranting and raving on the radio. Fire Brown, install Guiliani and let the two of them along with the professional Coast Guard and military/ National Guard sort this mess out in New Orleans. Bring in anyone with experience in MSF and the Army Medical Corps to run the field hospitals along the coast and ask for professional logistics people to do the distribution networks. Give them out of state cells that will work better and ham radios and they can move mountains. My small company alone could and would send half a dozen people with years and years of remote logistics experience: government agencies like USGS have dozens more. Keep the figure head FEMA and Red Cross people the hell away from it as it's clear they are in way over their heads.

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