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Blue Roan/Breeding for blue roan color question?

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  • Blue Roan/Breeding for blue roan color question?

    Just wondering, I am not breeding anything, but I have a blue roan mare, my question is: if I breed her to a Blue Roan and she is a Blue Roan, would I have a 100% chance of getting a Blue Roan. I know that is how it is with Grey's.

    If I breed her to any other color would I have a 50% chance of getting a Blue Roan?

  • #2
    That's not actually how it is with greys. 75% chance.

    You should think of her base color (black) as being separate from roan. She may contribute black, roan, black AND road, black and agouti (modifier that makes bay), and so on.

    Comment


    • #3
      roans...

      Roan is dominant, so her offspring should be roan.
      Since she is a blue roan, her base coat is black, so she does not carry the agouti gene.
      She is EEaa or Eeaa.
      if you want the offspring to be blue roan you should breed her to another black.
      You could breed to a chesnut and still get blue roan, but
      genetics being what they are, she could have a recessive chesnut gene and then you would get a strawberry roan.
      There are some excellent websites on equine color genetics, and there is one that has a color calculator so you can enter different combinations and see what color the offsrping might be.
      Punnett Squares are fun!
      Don't breed to a grey, as the grey modifier is dominant and you will get a roan that greys out.
      if you breed to a bay, you have a very good chance of getting bay roan. as agouti is dominant.
      UC Davis has a great website about equine color genetics and you can also send off a sample of mane hair and get her tested.
      Although she is black, she could carry a recessive chestnut gene.
      The test doesn't cost that much and you would then know for sure.
      hope this isn't tmi.
      I love blue roans too.
      "They'll be no butter in hell."

      Comment


      • #4
        There are a few homozygous roans out there, but not a huge amount.. some (a lot that i know) feel that the roan pattern is nicer if one parent is solid colored (i have not noticed this, but there is no roan in arabian land, and i am there more now). You do want to breed her to a non-grey Black or Blue Roan or Grulla (though that could give you a grulla roan) or Smoky Black or Smoky Cream. If they carry the roan gene as well, you have a 75% chance of roan. If both her parents or both the sire's parents are roan, there is a possibility of homozygousity.

        Comment


        • #5
          If you breed her to a non-roan you have a 50% chance of roan.

          If you breed her to another roan you have a 75% chance of roan, unless that other roan is guaranteed to be homozygous for roan, in which case you have a 100% chance of roan.

          Since she is black based, you can guarantee a black based foal by breeding to a homozygous black stallion.

          So for a 100% chance of a blue roan foal, you need a homozygous black, homozygous roan stallion. There are some AQHA listed here: http://www.hancockhorses.com/homoz-roan.html (you would want those with EEaaRnRn )
          Flickr

          Comment


          • #6
            Grays and roans are some kind of coats that, if the horse is active and keeps getting scrapes, will eventually look moth eaten as the years go by.
            Grays, because they have black skin that shows thru the white when they get a scrape, but generally those grow in back white.

            Roans, they really, especially if they have a dark skin, get the motheating look, because their roan hairs don't come in the scrapes as well, only the darker ones.

            This mare is an example of an adult horse with mostly permanent scrapes, where the white roan hairs didn't come back in:

            http://www.brokenlfarm.com/images/sa...n_102_0445.JPG

            Hancock horses in AQHA lines have traditionally been cowboy horses, tended to be rank.
            Today they are gentle, nice all around horses that many can get along with 99% of the time.

            If and when one were to act up, they can become not smooth, quick horses having a blow out, but stiff legged, jarring, explosive broncs few can stay with, that disregard even their own safety, running into or thru fences or off cliffs.
            I have seen too many of both, the rank and puppy dog ones and know that little explosive trait is still in the very gentle ones, if it came thru their lines.

            No surprise, those puppy dog ones have been telling you all along, here and there, that they can have their moments and if you have been watching, you know to be alert when they do have one such day, rare that they may be.

            There are other lines that have roaning in them and don't have that little pesky rank Hancock trait.

            Comment


            • #7
              So I guess it's just a old wives tale that breeding roan to roan results in failed pregnancies more often than not?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by AnastasiaBeaverhousen View Post
                Roan is dominant, so her offspring should be roan.
                Since she is a blue roan, her base coat is black, so she does not carry the agouti gene.
                She is EEaa or Eeaa.
                if you want the offspring to be blue roan you should breed her to another black.
                You could breed to a chesnut and still get blue roan, but
                genetics being what they are, she could have a recessive chesnut gene and then you would get a strawberry roan.
                There are some excellent websites on equine color genetics, and there is one that has a color calculator so you can enter different combinations and see what color the offsrping might be.
                Punnett Squares are fun!
                Don't breed to a grey, as the grey modifier is dominant and you will get a roan that greys out.
                if you breed to a bay, you have a very good chance of getting bay roan. as agouti is dominant.
                .
                It being dominant only means that if the horse carries it, they display it on their coat (phenotypically). It does not mean it will always be passed on. That would be homozygous.

                The mare could potentially be bay-based with roan, or be a very dark bay or seal brown and be mistaken for a blue (black) roan. If the OP doesn't know much about color genetics, this is quite likely. Best to have her tested to make sure.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by showhorsegallery View Post
                  So I guess it's just a old wives tale that breeding roan to roan results in failed pregnancies more often than not?
                  Yup. Though some still won't breed roan to roan.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                    Grays and roans are some kind of coats that, if the horse is active and keeps getting scrapes, will eventually look moth eaten as the years go by.
                    Grays, because they have black skin that shows thru the white when they get a scrape, but generally those grow in back white.

                    Roans, they really, especially if they have a dark skin, get the motheating look, because their roan hairs don't come in the scrapes as well, only the darker ones.

                    This mare is an example of an adult horse with mostly permanent scrapes, where the white roan hairs didn't come back in:

                    http://www.brokenlfarm.com/images/sa...n_102_0445.JPG

                    Hancock horses in AQHA lines have traditionally been cowboy horses, tended to be rank.
                    Today they are gentle, nice all around horses that many can get along with 99% of the time.

                    If and when one were to act up, they can become not smooth, quick horses having a blow out, but stiff legged, jarring, explosive broncs few can stay with, that disregard even their own safety, running into or thru fences or off cliffs.
                    I have seen too many of both, the rank and puppy dog ones and know that little explosive trait is still in the very gentle ones, if it came thru their lines.

                    No surprise, those puppy dog ones have been telling you all along, here and there, that they can have their moments and if you have been watching, you know to be alert when they do have one such day, rare that they may be.

                    There are other lines that have roaning in them and don't have that little pesky rank Hancock trait.
                    My roan mare has exactly what you stated puppy dog most of the time and then a day or two a month I don't even mess with her. when she was 6mths old she was grazing in the round pen, all of a sudden she turn and tried to run through the round pen hanging all four legs in the panels, some days I will not ride her she is still legged and only looks at the stars, most days she walks around with her head down without a care in the world. she is double bred blue valentine. thanks for posting.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Dr. Castle McLaughlin of the Peabody Museum of Harvard, researcher and historian and VP of the Nokota Horse Conservancy writes:

                      http://nokotahorse.org/cms/index.php...d=46&Itemid=12

                      She includes in this paper a mention of the roan color in the breed. Blue Roan dominates the Nokota horse breed.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Check out this website. It calculates the likelihood of getting a particular color foal depending on the parents.

                        http://www.animalgenetics.us/CCalculator1.asp

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