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Can we stop this woman from eating her horse? (long)

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  • Quick....I feel psychic vibes coming on from the mare. I think her left front is bothering her. Does the barn owner have permission to treat injuries in the absence of the owner? I feel the mare needs a daily course of bute for 7 days. And, I think she is due for worming.

    You have a zealot in your barn. She is foisting her religious beliefs on her animal, which ALWAYS makes me very, very angry. Horses do not eat human meat to become one with us when we die. Religious freedom, be damned--this is cult practice. Get the wacko out of your barn right now. You have children and horses to protect.

    Have the sheriff there when you do it. See if she likes that kind of attention. (PS I am serious about the sheriff. Tell them that she has made strange threats and that you feel she may have mental issues that will cause her to become unhinged when you ask her to leave. Tell them you want protection because you are frightened of her. I am. That is extortion, and you are dealing with an unstable and perhaps criminal mind.)

    Kathy Johnson

    [This message was edited by Kathy Johnson on Jan. 31, 2004 at 10:33 AM.]
    Kathy Johnson

    Comment


    • [QUOTE]Originally posted by Kathy Johnson:
      Quick....I feel psychic vibes coming on from the mare. I think her left front is bothering her. Does the barn owner have permission to treat injuries in the absence of the owner? I feel the mare needs a daily course of bute for 7 days. And, I think she is due for worming.

      We have had her on Bute on a regular basis for arthritis in her knee, per the owners instructions.

      Comment


      • Perfect. Now dig up literature from the USDA on why they won't allow the use of Bute in animals intended for food, and mention it to her next time! If she really is in it for extortion and shock value, this may take the wind out of her sails.

        Edited to add this paragraph from Two Toofs' post on page 2:

        "DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES

        Food and Drug Administration

        21 CFR Part 530

        [Docket No. 03N-0024]


        New Animal Drugs; Phenylbutazone; Extralabel Animal Drug Use;
        Order of Prohibition

        AGENCY: Food and Drug Administration, HHS.

        ACTION: Final rule.

        II. Phenylbutazone

        Phenylbutazone became available for use in humans for the treatment
        of rheumatoid arthritis and gout in 1949 (Ref. 1), but is no longer
        approved, and thus not marketed, for any human use in the United
        States. This is because some patients treated with phenylbutazone have
        experienced severe toxic reactions, and other effective, less toxic
        drugs are available to treat the same conditions (Refs. 1 and 2).
        Phenylbutazone is known for its ulcerogenic, nephrotoxic, and
        hemotoxic effects in horses, dogs, rats, and humans (Refs. 2, 4, 5, 6,
        7, and 8). It is known to induce blood dyscrasias, including aplastic
        anemia, leukopenia, agranulocytosis, thrombocytopenia, and deaths
        (Refs. 7 and 8). The reported adverse reactions were associated with
        the human clinical use of 200 to 800 milligrams phenylbutazone per day
        (Refs. 7 and 8). Hypersensitivity reactions of the serum-sickness type
        have also been reported in patients with phenylbutazone. The threshold
        for this effect has not been defined. Therefore, it is unclear what
        level of exposure would be required to trigger such reactions in
        sensitive people. Moreover, phenylbutazone is a carcinogen, as
        determined by the National Toxicology Program (NTP) based on positive
        results in genotoxicity tests and some evidence of carcinogenicity seen
        in the rat and mouse in carcinogenicity bioassays NTP conducted (Ref.
        3).
        For animals, phenylbutazone is currently approved only for oral and
        injectable use in dogs and horses. Use in horses is limited to use in
        horses not intended for food. There are currently no approved uses of
        phenylbutazone in food-producing animals."

        "The acoustics at Tanglewood in Lenox, MA, are so good that when Bob Dylan plays here you can understand every word he sings." -Garrison Keillor
        \"It is good to be fine.\"

        Comment


        • Here's some more of the story. The farm owner has been embroiled in legal battles of her own for the past 3 years, with an ex-fiance, ex-business partner, con-man, who tied up her breeding business, ruined her credit, and wreaked havoc on her life. There is still a possibility that she could lose the farm, if he is able to continue to drag this out much longer. She has 30 horses including a stallion and 2 pregnant mares. There is nowhere for her to go with all these horses should something happen with the farm.
          She has now gotten word back from her lawyer that he can find nothing illegal in the state of Wisconsin in what the woman is planning. The woman says the horse will be humanely killed. From what I know of this woman, if we tried to do anything outside the boundaries of the law, there would be retribution....big time. She seems to be well-versed in the law. We are barely hanging on right now, and we can't afford to do something that could jeopardize our situation any further, we have 30 horses that need us. It's probably much easier to be radical when your survival, and the survival of your entire horse herd is not on the line.
          Also if we did try something we would be branded as "anti-slaughter radicals" that are trying to take away peoples rights to do what they want with their horses. The pro-slaughter people would love it, "taking away rights" is a big issue for them.(pointed out by someone here)
          This woman is also boarding her stallion with us, and before you say "kick him out"....he is for sale, and if she leaves him with us we will do everything in our power to help get him sold, and out of her hands. If we can't help the mare, maybe we can help her son.
          We don't have a legal leg to stand on, we tried to buy her, but the $20,000.00 figure she has come up with is not only way out of line, but way beyond our means, and I don't think that I want to deal with an extortionist anyway. Someone is supposed to be coming for the mare today. I will make a standing offer to buy the mare if she should change her mind.
          (I kind of like cranky old lady mares) I don't think she will. I think she will go through with it as much to distress us, as for whatever the original reasons were.
          This has been a really bad month. I want to thank everyone who has responded to this issue, whatever your point of view. I think that it really helped us work through it, and not get ourselves into a huge mess.
          Marie
          I will let you know as much of what happens as I know, especially if it's a good outcome, say she realizes that the extortion didn't work and agrees to sell her for a realistic price.

          [This message was edited by hey_marie on Jan. 31, 2004 at 04:01 PM.]

          Comment


          • [QUOTE]Originally posted by bigbay:
            Perfect. Now dig up literature from the USDA on why they won't allow the use of Bute in animals intended for food, and mention it to her next time! If she really is in it for extortion and shock value, this may take the wind out of her sails.

            She has a B.S. in Animal Science, you'd think she should know that already.

            Comment


            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hey_marie:
              [QUOTE]Originally posted by bigbay:
              Perfect. Now dig up literature from the USDA on why they won't allow the use of Bute in animals intended for food, and mention it to her next time! If she really is in it for extortion and shock value, this may take the wind out of her sails.

              She has a B.S. in Animal Science, you'd think she should know that already.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
              Makes you wonder even more about her intentions.

              Comment


              • Also, point out that there is no way for her to "humanely" kill the animal and then have it be safe to eat. The drugs used for lethal injection certianly aren't safe for humans. This is why horses at slaughterhouses are "bolted" or clubbed. Not humane, IMO.

                "The acoustics at Tanglewood in Lenox, MA, are so good that when Bob Dylan plays here you can understand every word he sings." -Garrison Keillor
                \"It is good to be fine.\"

                Comment


                • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bigbay:
                  Also, point out that there is no way for her to "humanely" kill the animal and then have it be safe to eat. The drugs used for lethal injection certianly aren't safe for humans. This is why horses at slaughterhouses are "bolted" or clubbed. Not humane, IMO. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                  Sorry - "bolting", done *properly*, while not pretty, is instantaneous. How much more humane can it be? Now the bit _before_ the killing (long travel cooped up, milling around, being driven into the pens) may not be particularly humane, but the killing itself can be.

                  Comment


                  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Heather:
                    No legitimate modern pagan religion would ever condone the sacrifice of an animal as part of ritual.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                    Pardon? Is there some definition of "pagan" I don't know? Or is there some "legitimizing" agency for pagan religions?

                    Just because many don't doesn't mean that _all_ don't.

                    Comment


                    • Um.. Who says it's paganism, anyway? Other religions have taken part in sacrifice as part of their history, like paganism, but MOST of it was phased out before reaching North America - in any religion. The only exception I can think of may be satanism.

                      "If consequences dictate my course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right -it's only wrong if you get caught." - Tool
                      \"If consequences dictate my course of action, then it doesn\'t matter what\'s right -it\'s only wrong if you get caught.\" - Tool

                      Comment


                      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by paw:

                        Sorry - "bolting", done *properly*, while not pretty, is instantaneous. How much more humane can it be? Now the bit _before_ the killing (long travel cooped up, milling around, being driven into the pens) may not be particularly humane, but the killing itself can be.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        Not when horses are slaughtered in the US. Unfortunately, they don't follow the guidelines for captive bolt use. They do not restrain the head, as is required by AMVA guidelines.

                        Two Toofs
                        (formerly - but still - NDANO)

                        Comment


                        • There are wackos in any religion--Christian, Muslim, pagan, you name it.

                          Just as you would say no legitimate Christian would choose to bomb the Oklahoma Federal bulding, no legitimate pagan would choose to scarifice and eat their horse.

                          This woman is NOT standing on her religious views anymore than David Koresh or the Jonestown people were--the visions of a deluded mind do not a relgiion make.

                          This woman is more than likely a mnaipulative person who is trying to hit hot buttons (and easy ones at that--look at the reponses here--she says pagan, and every single poster since, went, oh, ok, that must be true and what they do) for financial gain. However, she may also be truly mentally unstable, just like the guy on the corner who says God tells him to run around naked and spit on people.

                          But please, don't for a minute think that the vast, vast majority of people who follow an alternative faith find this acceptable, understandble, or anything representing their faith.

                          This woman is a monster, plain and simple.

                          Comment


                          • Hei_marie,
                            As I read the holw story aout the situation at your barn, could it be - by any chance - that the Horse owner sites with BO's ex, stiring up trouble, just for the heck of it, sitting back and having a good laugh at your expense?

                            To many things do just not add up the other way around.

                            And if it is, You and your boss have my sympathese, because all you can do is shrug your shoulders and let the things go...

                            I bet you, if anybody at the barn pulled any stunts, the Ex would know it before anybody ever left the barn!

                            The whole deals smells like some rotten fish!
                            And as much as it may break your heart, repeat after me: You can't save them all; the rescue peoples sanity mantra.

                            My best wishes!

                            Talk Spotted Dogs
                            http://pub31.ezboard.com/fdalmatianp...ssageboardfrm1

                            Comment


                            • Give a call to your local mental health office, and tell them what you're telling us. I may be wrong, but she sounds like she may need some mental health services.

                              And just on the subject of her desire to not only "sacrafice" her horse, but to torment other horse owners makes me think this woman has some other things going on. I had a friend onece who claimed to be Pagan....she said Pagans have a rule "first do no harm"...if this is true, then she's breaking her own "rules" by upsetting the other horse owners. Her lack of logic in this suggests it has nothing to do with a ritual, but more of a mental instability.

                              Please at least give everyone a chance at sanity by contacting your local mental health department. If the area you live in has a somewhat decent tax-base, they should send "Crisis" out to at least investigate. I know when I worked in Richmond in both the private and public sector, they would have at least sent someone to interview her as well as the people who had heard of her plan. It may be that they can't DO anything, but it could.

                              Comment


                              • . I am with Pacificsolo....

                                I've been thinking all along that this woman sounds ... non compos mentos. The religion and extortion bit seem to confirm that.

                                What about contacting this woman's family?

                                As much as I hate to say it (God, I feel so terrible for you in this situation), we can't save every horse. If you are out of options, I'd just kick this woman and her horses out of the facility, immediately. Tell her she has 24 hours to remove them or such. It might be enough of a shock to make her rethink her plans.
                                Enron, El Ron, El Lay.

                                Comment


                                • heymarie - any update?

                                  I am not a lawyer but I can't believe you can't try to stop this wacko via some infraction of public health rules.

                                  Glad you are consulting a lawyer, and I hope your weekend dealing with this situation wasn't too stressful.

                                  Comment


                                  • DING DING DING! Alagirl gets the prize. ...

                                    I agree 100%, this woman is a plant by the deviant Ex.

                                    Can you think of anything more torturous for an ex to do to his horsey Ex than plant someone in her barn (smack in the center of her livelihood) with stories of horse-eating (with the intent of driving off his Ex's good clients / income in the process?).

                                    Firstly, spend $100 for a simple profile by a P.I. on the alleged owner's background. If she can be linked up with the notoriuos Ex, his butt is gonna get toasted in court for attempting to sabotage his Ex's source of income.

                                    Assuming she said what stable from wence she came, FOLLOW UP and do a CHECK to see if this is accurate, and if they got the same stories, and how long she was there, how long she SAID she has had this horse, etc.

                                    POST HASTE -- Get rid of the b!tch. Then, HIS days of taunting his Ex thru her, at least within this issue, are OVERT.

                                    Finally, get - ahem -- a wee bit smarter with background checks on anyone wanting to board there.

                                    -------------------------
                                    *The lesser half of a team who BEAT EPM!

                                    Member of the Susie Ormond clique!*
                                    "If you don't know where you're going, you'll end up somewhere else."

                                    Comment


                                    • [QUOTE]Originally posted by pacificsolo:
                                      Give a call to your local mental health office, and tell them what you're telling us. I may be wrong, but she sounds like she may need some mental health services.

                                      She's in Mass. we're in Wisconsin

                                      Comment


                                      • Update. They didn't pick the horse up this weekend, said they never told us they were going to. They did, me in person and farm owner by email. Now she's saying the middle of the month. Had her husband sneak in with feed and the board check when no-one was around. She had one of her friends (she's very nice and seems to care about the horses, used to work the stallion until she got tired of being taken advantage of) come by to check on the horses and I told her the mare had a snotty nose. She did, honest, white yucky stuff. So now the mare owner says we may have to give her medication which will delay "the procedure" even longer. Maybe the vet can prescribe something that would taint the meat forever.
                                        The theory about her being connected with the barn owner's ex is quite interesting, and bears some investigating, but I think she's just wacko all on her own. Maybe once she figures out that we're not going to throw a bunch of money at her, she'll give up her plan. I just really don't know where she's coming from on this, if it's money, or it's entertaining for her to torture people or what. She's not even around to see it, she's in Boston.
                                        We don't want to throw the horses out in the middle of winter and as long as they are on our farm, we can hope that she'll screw up somewhere along the line, and maybe we'll have something legal we can do. Even if she goes through with this, we really want to try to get the stallion sold, to get him out of her hands.
                                        And the humane society, and the lawyer are quite sure that there is nothing we can legally do at this point.
                                        Still hopeful, Marie

                                        Comment


                                        • yeesh marie-hang in there

                                          have ya talked to the vet about this "plan"?

                                          what does whacko's hubby think of all this?

                                          molly
                                          *member of just about every clique*
                                          http://community.webshots.com/user/mavw1971

                                          www.oasisequestrian.com
                                          Co-founder of White Trash Dressage (WTD)
                                          http://www.lulu.com/mavw1971
                                          also available on Amazon.com
                                          http://www.cafepress.com/wtdressage

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