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please sign the petition to get the anti-slaughter bill onto the house floor

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  • Hunter's Rest that is the issue isn't it. I don't understand why these advocates do not care about horses that are slaughtered for dog food or even cat food and for feeding other carnivorous critters.

    It seems to me that if we see a problem with the slaughter process the thing to fix is what wrong with the process and that's the methods and the handling.

    In which case all the horses that will be slaughtered for feeding other animals would have a more pleasant demise, as well as all the other critters which we also slaughter would benefit, including some exotic creatures that may be on the line.

    I do not understand this obsession with not letting the French eat our horse meat. Is there some sublimial meaning that eludes me?
    http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

    Comment


    • HeyYou, my information about this comes DIRECTLY from the head of the USDA's HPA enforcement division, so perhaps your two divisions need to communicate more often?

      Again, the USDA is the ONLY enforcer of the HPA. It doesn't matter whether the law still lives unchanged on the books or not -- without the Dept. of Ag. money given to the USDA vets, there will be NO enforcement of the HPA.

      Behind closed doors in TWH country, there is great hope that this bill is passed, because the trainers know exactly what it will mean to them. They've been trying for years to get the HPA weakened; now the word on the street is to just simply sit back and wait until well-meaning people make it irrelevant.

      I have great respect for the USDA vets. I've witnessed firsthand what the HPA inspectors go through and wouldn't wish it on anyone. While your part of the USDA apparently thinks this bill is a great thing, the HPA enforcers are worried.

      Comment


      • Jesus Christ people. Ok, here's my view - in 5 minutes (literallY) I am calling the huntsman to make an appointment to come and put down my old horse (who seems like he has wobbles or something terribly wrong that I can neither diagnose nor cure. Ok, fine. He will come to MY farm, and with ME holding the horse shoot him so he can be FED to the hounds. This is my choice. I am a horse professional and it is my responsibility to take CARE of the horses I can, and make responsible decisions for those I cannot.
        If I did not have the luxury of a pack that still feeds meat nearby, you can be damned sure I'd have VAlley Protein come and get my horse's body and take him away to be used for, well, I don't know what, but it doesn't matter. It is selfish and sort of retarded to NOT use a perfectly good horse for other purposes when his time here is done. I only pray that, in time, someone will take my organ donor wishes seriously when I can no longer, well, use my organs.
        There is no slaughter plant here in Va., so that was not a choice for me. Of COURSE I would not sell this elderly gentleman down the river for a horror ride a LONG way to a slaughter plant. But, if there was one here, and IF my financials were such that I could not PAY to have the horse euthanized and if by being PAID to send him for meat use I could look after other horses entrusted to my care, then by god, I would consider it.
        Just my two cents, writtn at what you can see is a terrible juncture but this issue I am passionate about. Just sort of hard to 'argue for' horse slaughter. If those do-gooders that hope to get it banned want to sign up to look after all my old crippled horses (in their time) then I'll be happy to mail them right over. Post an address here.
        * www.huntersrest.net -- Virginia hunt country's best Bed-and-Breakfast-and-Barn.

        Comment


        • Steppin, I am not arguing USDA's role in enforcing the HPA. What I said was, HPA enforcement/funding and slaughter legislation are unrelated. They are not connected.

          So you, Snowbird, and I will have to disagree on whether what you two think you heard from someone at USDA is correct.

          I will happily change my mind, when someone can refer me to the portion of the Code of Federal Regs, or the U.S. Code, or other actual laws and regulations that show otherwise.

          Someone's second hand "I heard it from..." doesn't quite cut it for me.

          On the other hand, for all you know, I'm a 12 year old skipping school and writing from my mother's computer.

          Comment


          • When someone writes a bill that addresses the METHOD of slaughter, instead of the end use of the carcass, I will support it.

            Here's a clue: instead of writing legislation that makes it illegal to slaughter horses for human consumption, make it illegal to have a plant that kills horses at a rate greater than n per hour, or that has any kind of assembly-line functionality for the death. Or similarly requires that care and attention be taken with each horse so there aren't repeated misses.

            There you go. It probably would have the same effect, because it would add cost to the process. It would keep those same plants from shifting to produce dog/cat/zoo food. And it would make things better for the horses.

            REGULATING THE USE OF A DEAD BODY does nothing productive for horses. It costs money and adds red tape. Regulating their treatment and care while alive does.

            Once you've decided a horse will die, I only care that he is treated humanely and kindly. Indeed, having his flesh eaten is the finest form of recycling and no less icky than having him melted down or buried (and eaten by worms). (Do the euthanasia chemicals affect worms?)
            If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

            Comment


            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by poltroon:

              _REGULATING THE USE OF A DEAD BODY_ does nothing productive for horses. It costs money and adds red tape. Regulating their treatment and care while alive does.

              Once you've decided a horse will die, I only care that he is treated humanely and kindly. Indeed, having his flesh eaten is the finest form of recycling and no less icky than having him melted down or buried (and eaten by worms). (Do the euthanasia chemicals affect worms?) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

              Exactly, Poltroon.
              Freaky Farm Hermit Clique
              Mighty Thoroughbred Clique COMH Page: Tory Relic

              Comment


              • I have been fighting with our township representatives all summer that are trying to remove horses from farming and agriculture. You might as well kiss your horses goodbye if they aren't considered agriculture.

                I don't agree with slaughter but the worst of the two evils is removing them from agriculture. This is what I believe will happen with this bill.

                Comment


                • SNOWBIRD: HORSES ARE NOT PART OF YOUR PET'S DIET, and haven't been for quite some time.

                  Horse Protection Act (HPA):
                  In enforcing the HPA, AC oversees the Designated Qualified Person (DQP) program. DQP's are trained and licensed by USDA-certified horse industry organizations or associations to detect sored horses. DQP's are responsible for barring from shows horses that do not meet the HPA regulations. To ensure DQP's continue to adhere to HPA standards, AC personnel conduct randomly scheduled unannounced inspections at horse shows and sales.

                  For those who violate the HPA, APHIS can impose criminal or civil charges. If convicted, violators can spend up to 2 years in prison, receive penalties of up to $5,000, and be disqualified for 1 or more years from the right to show, exhibit, or sell horses through auction sales. Trainers can be disqualified for life.

                  In addition to the HPA, many State and local governments have passed animal welfare legislation. The public is encouraged to work with Federal, State, and local officials as well as local humane organizations to help eliminate inhumane treatment of animals.

                  This law was ammended once or twice, as all laws can be.

                  SNOWBIRD: WHY DO YOU THINK WE HAVE AN "OBSESSION" WITH NOT LETTING THE FRENCH EAT HORSEMEAT?? I never said that, but just not OUR horsemeat. I no more want to supply something I'm against anymore than one may not want to provide heroin or child pornography, in countries where that is loosely enforced or even legal. It's legal in some countries to set your wife on fire. Just because someone else says it's OK, DO YOU??? WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE? Please answer.

                  As for the slaughterhouse in VA., 74% of likely voters in VA are AGAINST slaughter, FYI. This is what the VA Horse Council says on the subject:
                  The Virginia Horse Council's position on the American
                  Horse Slaughter Prevention Act:

                  WHEREAS, all horses are produced as agricultural animals the Virginia
                  Horse Council recognizes that horse ownership can be both for recreation
                  or business purposes. Sound business decisions are required in the
                  business enterprises to operate a viable and continuing business. For this
                  reason, the Virginia Horse Council supports the humane and ethical
                  disposal of horses
                  as an additional option for equine businesses.
                  Abstention regarding a position on the American Horse Slaughter
                  Prevention Act on the Council's part does not imply support or opposition.
                  The VA Horse Journal:
                  http://www.virginiahorse.com/Archive...ntion%20Act%20(HR857)%20-%20September%202003.htm

                  On a personal level, a former VA neighbor and well respected horsewoman (barrel racer) took her 30 year old blind mare there and left her. Another hunter instructor who chairs a pony club sold my daughter an older mare in foal and said "If you don't want the mare you can take her to killers". Our dressage neighbor took one of hers there who bowed a tendon (she routinly holds clinics on her farm & also "loves" her horses.....ALL COULD AFFORD A VETERINARIAN but prefered to SELL instead. Take away the option to sell & most drop them privately.
                  "There's a fine line between genius and madness. I've removed that line." -Super Genius/me

                  Comment


                  • FAQ:

                    http://www.equineprotectionnetwork.c...ughter/faq.htm

                    PRO SLAUGHTER argument:
                    http://www.equineprotectionnetwork.c...horses/pro.htm

                    It's no wonder some want this bill tied up, if brought to vote sensible people will see this to an end.
                    "There's a fine line between genius and madness. I've removed that line." -Super Genius/me

                    Comment


                    • Hunters Rest:
                      This is where you differ from many, you are having your horse humanely put down. Anyone can sell a dead horse. And certainly nothing wrong with using their bodies to feed other animals.
                      Note this ad from Horse & Hound:

                      D L TURNER & SON LTD
                      Phone: 01629 640305

                      Specialist horse abbatoir will purchase horses and ponies for immediate slaughter under vet supervision. Payment by deadweight. Deliveries by appointment or nationwide collection service available. Horses can also be put down at home for a reasonable charge. Free advice offered on pending horse passport legislation. Red Lion Abattoir, Nantwich, Cheshire. Phone: 01629 640305 (Turners)

                      Were slaughter not available people would find/create a viable market. There is NOTHING humane about horse slaughter now, & it's too profitable to find other solutions. Pet food companies cannot compete with the prices brought for live horses (human consumption).
                      "There's a fine line between genius and madness. I've removed that line." -Super Genius/me

                      Comment


                      • I haven't read all million pages, and am unfamiliar with the laws in the states, but my input is this:
                        Years ago I sent a horse to slaughter. A horse that I loved and rode for close to ten years. I could not afford to pay to euthanise him. He was delivered by someone who cared for him, in a private trailer to the plant. He had an immediate kill order (meaning he did not stay in the paddocks there). He was no longer pasture sound and was in pain. He spent his last several years of semi-soundness teaching children to ride. The proceeds from his sale to slaughter went to buying more horse for the kids program (non-profit). No, it was not ideal, but at the time it was the only real option. Selling horses for meat allows the camp program to continue.
                        There are too many horses, and too much abuse to eliminate slaughter. Horses must be considered livestock. IMHO.

                        Comment


                        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by winter:
                          I haven't read all million pages, and am unfamiliar with the laws in the states, but my input is this:
                          Years ago I sent a horse to slaughter. A horse that I loved and rode for close to ten years. I could not afford to pay to euthanise him. He was delivered by someone who cared for him, in a private trailer to the plant. He had an immediate kill order (meaning he did not stay in the paddocks there). He was no longer pasture sound and was in pain. He spent his last several years of semi-soundness teaching children to ride. The proceeds from his sale to slaughter went to buying more horse for the kids program (non-profit). No, it was not ideal, but at the time it was the only real option. Selling horses for meat allows the camp program to continue.
                          There are too many horses, and too much abuse to eliminate slaughter. Horses must be considered livestock. IMHO. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                          What can you say . This was an animal that not only took care of children, it took care of special needs children? This was his fitting end? I have been in horses for a solid 20 years and over those years I have met many equine vets. I have yet to meet one that doesn't provide some special circumstances services, such as for non-profit programs even if its doing it at a low cost rate, many for no cost. I must say I don't know Canada, so I'll look into what's available in your country. Are there any rendering plants, can you bury on your property. A gun and a hole is better than this end, that's MHO .
                          NO HORSES TO SLAUGHTER CLIQUE
                          http://www.cafepress.com/maneshirts

                          Comment


                          • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by winter:
                            Years ago I sent a horse to slaughter. A horse that I loved and rode for close to ten years. I could not afford to pay to euthanise him. He was delivered by someone who cared for him, in a private trailer to the plant. He had an immediate kill order (meaning he did not stay in the paddocks there). He was no longer pasture sound and was in pain. He spent his last several years of semi-soundness teaching children to ride. The proceeds from his sale to slaughter went to buying more horse for the kids program (non-profit). No, it was not ideal, but at the time it was the only real option. Selling horses for meat allows the camp program to continue.
                            <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                            I can't believe that anyone who loved a horse would knowingly sent them to the death that awaits in a slaughterhouse. If you haven't already, please view the horse slaughter video. http://www.sharkonline.org/horseslaughter.mv and watch them be bolted in the shoulder when they won't stand still. Figure your horse had wait in a long line in chutes listening to scary sounds and feeling the tension of other scared horses....maybe getting kicked and knocked around as they are pushed towards the end of the line. Then finally he had to walk into a "knock box" full of blood and gore from previously slaughtered horses and got to see dead horses hanging beside the knock box. It probably took several boltings to render him unconcious...hopefully dead. I'm sorry but to say you love a horse and then send him to die like that is beyond my ability to understand. If you don't believe my description of what happens, watch the videos. If you can't afford a couple hundred $$ to put him down and have his carcass hauled off, you need to rethink your camp program business. For that matter a bullet is pretty cheap and would have saved him a lot of fear and stress. Sorry if I sound harsh but I think what you did was unconsionable.

                            Comment


                            • Winter.

                              That is one of the most horrible stories that I have read on this board.

                              He gave you and yours the best years of his life,and his reward is the Slaughter house.

                              Absolutely disgustng.!!!

                              I cannot believe that as a Non-Profit,you could not have that horse Euthenaised at home,instead of the ghastly end you sent him to.

                              How do you explain his leaving to the kids.

                              Lies???
                              \"I have lived my life-it is nearly done-.I have played the game all round;But I freely admit that the best of my fun I owe it to Horse and Hound\".

                              Comment


                              • Sea Oat (and others),

                                I still don't understand why you don't work to prohibit the inhumane METHODS. The use of the carcass is irrelevant.

                                THE BILL AS WRITTEN DOES NOT SHUT THESE PLANTS DOWN. IT MERELY REQUIRES THEM TO FIND A NEW CUSTOMER.

                                My approach would produce a much better bill, AND it would not have the slippery slope worries of ag vs companion animal.
                                If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                                Comment


                                • Oh for God's sake dead is dead...Any of the morally superior please feel free to step forward with your CHECK BOOKS and adopt/euthanise/keep/whatever!!!!!! The lady did what she had to do. Not what I would do but she is NOT ME!!!!!!!!! Or YOU. Horses are livestock. Before I get grilled I have at least a DOZEN lawn ornaments in my yard but I would NEVER presume to judge someone with different ethical values than myself. Instead of judgement put your $$ where your moralizing is...
                                  The thing about smart people, is they look like crazy people, to dumb people.

                                  Comment


                                  • There are a lot of things worse than death for a horse, and in my opinion the whole slaughter operation is one of them. I know it is death, but it's awful, it's an awful way to die. Watch the video. Ask yourself why we allow horses who serve us to be killed in this way in order to support a practice that most Americans find abhorrent.

                                    I would get a gun and shoot any of mine myself before I allowed them to come to this end.

                                    I don't know what this video looks like, because I can't watch another one. But I'll tell you about the first video I saw. This horse was run into the kill-chute in a blind panic. I've never seen a horse this afraid. He lost his balance and fell but scrambled back to his feet. He was bolted in the head, but it didn't kill him. He fell again and scrambled back to his feet. He was bolted again, fell against the side of the chute, reared, didn't fall. He was bolted again. Fell. Got back to his feet. He was hoisted off his feet by his hind leg. His throat was slit. He was alive and clearly struggling until he finally bled to death.

                                    He was a bay horse with a pretty blaze and a trace clip. I had nightmares about that video and I will never, ever forget the damn thing. I've always wondered who he belonged to and whether that person knew what happened and just didn't care or whether he or she got to live in blissful ignorance.

                                    I've rescued a few horses here and there, some quite injured, neglected, what have you. For some of them, I did wonder why the person didn't just come out and put a bullet in their heads and end their suffering. At no point did I wonder why the owner didn't put them on a trailer to New Holland where they would get put in pens without food or water with other possibly aggressive horses, get run through the auction ring, loaded on a double decker truck alongside a big draftie that would crush him if he lost his balance, travel for 20 hours to the plant in Texas, spend a few days in the feedlot, and finally gain an "end to his suffering" through the method described above.

                                    I honestly don't see how anyone can see the entire slaughter process, from auction to throat cut, as a means to end an abused or neglected horse's suffering.

                                    Where the heck is that fruitbat when you need him?
                                    "It's not a perfect world....But it's still good to be alive! If you don't know by now, you'll probably never understand the way it feels to wanna live....One Perfect Moment!!"

                                    Comment


                                    • Well, I *would* presume to judge someone with different ethical values than myself. The guy who did this to Flower had different ethical values than myself and the state of Virginia saw fit to judge him too.

                                      By the way, as to where my money goes... always have and always will spend it to rescue horses whose owners' morals allow them to get the last couple of hundred dollars a horse can give.



                                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jumphigh83:
                                      ... I would NEVER presume to judge someone with different ethical values than myself. Instead of judgement put your $$ where your moralizing is... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                                      "It's not a perfect world....But it's still good to be alive! If you don't know by now, you'll probably never understand the way it feels to wanna live....One Perfect Moment!!"

                                      Comment


                                      • Send my own horse to slaughter??

                                        NEVER!!!

                                        I would find a quick way to make some money, sell something, ANYTHING, whatever I could do to make that money to have the horse euthanized.

                                        Even if that meant I had to dig a hole for it myself with a toothpick.
                                        -The Girl With Endoscope Eyes

                                        Comment


                                        • Yeah, what Fernie said!!!

                                          I've posted this before, but it must be done again... if you can afford to buy and keep a horse, you can afford to kill it. That is the most pathetic excuse in the book, bar none. It is nice that he was delivered to the slaughter plant and didn't have to go through the horror of transport, and I hope for his sake that they honored the immediate kill order (most of the time that is bs), but he still had a horrible death as payback for years of service and I find the fact that you used money you got for that horse to buy more utterly disgusting. But, I know this sort of thing goes on every day and I guess the most some of us can hope for is that there isn't anyone out there keeping score, and that we don't really ever get what's coming to us...

                                          But hey - thanks for reminding me to give my horses (including the one save from this fate 2 weeks ago) an extra hug and to assure them, again, that I will not forsake them in their moments of greatest need. As Dizzy said, I'd shoot them in the head myself before I'd ever let that happen.
                                          My Equines:::
                                          Flower: http://www.eqbydesign.com/flower.htm
                                          Quin: http://www.eqbydesign.com/quin.htm
                                          Half Magic: http://www.teamwindchase.com/Half_Magic.htm

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