• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 2/8/18)
See more
See less

please sign the petition to get the anti-slaughter bill onto the house floor

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stilicho:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by _Soup From the Store_:
    I believe Sea Oat's was up first, and much friendlier than this one. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    As usually you are dead wrong.
    The person you mentioned made a cross post from this one. Just check the date and time and you will see.
    No wonder you like that person's style better.
    From my point of view she is simply disgusting and I don't like your "soup" very much either... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Oh really? Been following all my posts to make sure I'm wrong about EVERYTHING, have we? Somebody needs to get himself a life

    Sea Oat's was started in August. This one was started in September.
    -The Girl With Endoscope Eyes

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      stilicho,
      my intent to educate myself was genuine. based on yours and snowbird's posts i initially thought that there may be something wrong w/ this particular anti slaughter legislation. that of course does not change the fact that i'm against ALL slaughter of ALL animals.
      http://www.eponashoe.com/
      TQ(Trail Queen) \"Learn How to Ride or Move Over!!\" Clique

      Comment


      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by marta:
        stilicho,
        my intent to educate myself was genuine. based on yours and snowbird's posts i initially thought that there may be something wrong w/ this particular anti slaughter legislation. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
        Nice try but it does look like it. Sorry.
        There is LOTS of things VERY WRONG with that Bill, provided one is able to analyse it. Its doesn't seem to be your case...
        __________________________________________________ __________

        Comment


        • Soup From the Store, I am shattered moi a "_itch". Don't you see that's why I'm so good for the business, I get people to love horses. Mine by the way are supportd by me and they are here until they are ready to leave on their own. I don't agree with euthanizing I prefer the unexpected bullet when needed. I know the horses know they are going to be executed when they see the vet and know it's going to happen. We usually wait fora nice sunny day and have they in the pasture being hugged when they go.

          Well of course and that's why they show them, look how the videos from beheading people work from Iraq.

          I don't think any of us has done anything to deserve what we get either.It is isn't a question of worth and it isn't a question of this much wrong for that much torture.

          Yes! in the best of all possible worlds we wouldn't need to eat and people would be perfectly well behaved and well mannered and kind to animals. It would be like the Garden of Eden where we all lived peacefully together man and beast. BUT IT JUST AIN'T THAT WAY!

          Then don't sign this petition and start a march on Washington for something that will be good for all the critters. HUMANE supervised and inspected executions.

          How can you help fix the world problems if you don't face them. I'm so sorry I will miss your reasoned logic but not your name calling.
          http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

          Comment


          • "You SeaOat have my blessings to spew your venom because I think you may need to do so for therapy with such a black view of humanity...."
            I on the other hand enjoy a rack of lamb, a rare filet mignon, a tasty pork roast, wine and good company."
            Well la te da!
            How hysterical...I'm not bleak at all, but I am pretty picky about the quality of what goes in my mouth and the people I pop the corks with! On that I assure you we've never mingled socially!
            So, how can you confuse anything about my ability to live an upbeat life (& still be able to have a side-line passion for a few good causes) with "spewing venom" and such nonsense. Seriously, how do you arrive at this crap? You read way too much into a persons character simply by reading their beliefs on a few subjects.
            Old age hasn't been kind to your elasticity, it's an expanding world out here with widening thoughts on improvement on oodles of subjects....my sympathies alongside your blessings should you feel left behind. I do give up trying to understand your concern except that people have feared every new idea from fire & onward. Ending horse slaughter in this country, or finding a better way to grow/harvest our animal products, is not going to send us sailing over the face of the ocean. I'll not apologize for my ability, or anyone else's ability, to think outside a box.

            Sorry Bald eagle, but I do have Muslim friends in Istanbul, my second favorite large city, as well as in other countries but could never be called an extremist by any of them. As for the rest of your long and insulting rant, well I just couldn't look. Yeash.
            "There's a fine line between genius and madness. I've removed that line." -Super Genius/me

            Comment


            • "I don't agree with euthanizing I prefer the unexpected bullet when needed. I know the horses know they are going to be executed when they see the vet..."

              Good gads, treating a colic or floating teeth, or sewing a wound MUST BE FUN at your place! And hunting season must really send 'em! Thank goodness we don't get called to treat your animals! And by the way, horses are in DEEP lala land before the purple juice is given. Modern medicine just keeps improving. Wow.
              Oh and I've edited to add that a kind bullet is euthanizing, BTW. Several attempts with a bolt is not. It's not too confusing.
              "There's a fine line between genius and madness. I've removed that line." -Super Genius/me

              Comment


              • Snowbird: I just said that I have nothing against eating meat, so long as the animal is put down in a humane manner.

                So what, exactly, are you arguing with me about? It seems as though we both want the animals to be destroyed in a kind way.

                However, this is where I am confused: Why is it that you seem to care SO much about how kindly YOUR horses are put down, but so little about how other horses leave this world?

                That just REALLY seems, to me, to be a bit hypocritical.
                -The Girl With Endoscope Eyes

                Comment


                • Nope! the fact is there are unwanted critters who didn't get a chance to do their job. I am all in favor of a March on Washington, I've been there before. I have all the contact information for the whole Horse Caucus.

                  I'll back you up in a heart beat to change the laws about how they're slaughtered and to get them to inspect facilities and prevent cruelty to any animal whether fish or fowl, domestic livestock or any other. I don't think they should be hyped on drugs to fatten them or keep them.

                  I'd be a hypocrite as a meat eater if I didn't do that! But to oppose a law against slaughter in my opinion will put more critters in worse conditions and more abuse than there is now by people who have horses they can't sell and can't feed. A few days of misery is still better than some I've seen where the poor things froze to the ground and couldn't move. Because no one cared and when we did get care the courts gave them back to the same B******s who let them freeze and starve because they were property.

                  And, I don't care if it's a chicken, a cow, a goat, a sheep, a pig or even a fish and I dont like fish. You're just backing the wrong cure for the wrong disease. You want my support for changing the slaughter laws? You got it and I'll take every one of my critters to Washington if we have to hack there. The farmers did that when they drove their tractors to Washington.
                  http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

                  Comment


                  • It would be easier (and make more sense) to reinforce current cruelty laws with harsher penalties than add inspectors in the slaughterhouses. Forget training the people on the kill floors or actually changing the method used to kill horses...
                    In spite of slaughter being available, it didn't stop abuse to the horse frozen to the ground from being returned to it's owner. And lack of slaughter wouldn't either, abuse is going to happen regardless.
                    I learned two wrongs don't make a right. Slaughter is the wrong cure for the wrong (abuse) disease, to use your words. It's replacing one disgusting act with another, and paying someone for washing their hands of the animal to boot!
                    ****None of you, not one of you in favor of slaughter, ONCE, have addressed why abused horses could not be impounded (with revised cruelty laws) and EUTHANISED by an official if unable to be adopted.********
                    "There's a fine line between genius and madness. I've removed that line." -Super Genius/me

                    Comment


                    • ****None of you, not one of you in favor of slaughter, ONCE, have addressed why abused horses could not be impounded (with revised cruelty laws) and EUTHANISED by an official if unable to be adopted.********

                      Well, for one reason, the bill doesn't provide money for that. It doesn't revise crulty laws, provide for shelters, or euthinasia. It doesn't provide for an army of humane officers to inspect horses. All it does is say "no more slaughter". If you really want slaughter end, then take care of the forseeable concequences BEFORE you take it away.

                      Part of the problem with the way government changes things, is that it doesn't even try to adress the ramifications in advance. This causes lots of problems, half of which could have been avoided easily by making changes in the laws etc to prepare for the change. Then at least it would only be the unforseen concequenses to deal with. If these kinds of changes were instituted in an offenceive manner, they would be less problimatic for people like myself, and Snowbird etc. but they are always handled on the defence.

                      And it seems that many people keep asking where the slippery slope of horses moving to companion animals etc. is written, it isn't there. Neither is a statement that they won't be reclassified. It truly wouldn't suprise me if the whole thrust of the bill WAS to then reclassify the horse to get more taxes out of the perceived "weathy" horse people.

                      The conspiricies are always out there. Just because you aren't paranoid doen't mean they aren't watching you.

                      I apologize for the spelling, but I can't seem to edit today.

                      Comment


                      • "Part of the problem with the way government changes things, is that it doesn't even try to adress the ramifications in advance."

                        This is true, the usual step is fix the problem to the degree necessary AFTER (if) the problem it arrises. Unfortunatly, the problem must be recognisable and large enough to get the public's attention and backing. No matter if it's Iraq or Greyhound disposal, we tend to do things the hard way. After the fact. It's hard to keep people focused on ANY one given cause, we are a fickle nation with a short attention span, for the most part. One disadvantage to getting too comfortable.
                        The bill is not meant to provide $$ beforehand, nor is it the way to get ANY bill passed, unless ABSOLUTLY necessary. Animal shelters rely most on public donations and there's no reason to assume local horse enthusiasts will not lend continued funds to the needed shelters that house local horses until they can be placed or humanely destroyed. Just like we do with the millions of small animals who are unwanted and reproducing by THE LITTER (not every 11 mos at MOST like some mares). I think your idea of "ramifications" is extreme and paranoid, as noted by your last statement. The population of unwanted horses can be managed w/out slaughter. And still keeping things on a local level. Abuse of all animals will continue the same as it does with or without slaughter, as apparent by new equine cases arrising daily. Shelters raise awareness to abuse and it's consequence, as well as offering adoption or euthanasia. No big deal, really.
                        "There's a fine line between genius and madness. I've removed that line." -Super Genius/me

                        Comment


                        • That's easy SeaOat Money! It's like they gave state veterinary the authority in a recent "feel good" law but no money to implement the order.

                          The general impression that all horse people are the very wealthy makes us a target as suggested by Blueskidoo.

                          Yes! they want an excuse to cancel Farmland Assessment relief because we rich folks don't need it and they could use that money to buy votes with patronage.

                          They want to tax and license horses because us rich folks can afford the extra costs. The fact is that with slaughter we still have abandoned horses, and without slaughter there will be more abandoned horses. They're waiting for the price of meat to go up because mean while the horses get skinnier.

                          You are not stopping the slaughter of horses for dog food cans. You're not stoppng the slaughter of horses for zoos that have large exotic animals. Only for human consumption and that means nothing in the big picture. They can still be cruelly slaughtered for RENDERING into a lot of other commonly used products.
                          http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

                          Comment


                          • I haven't read the entire thread so if this has been brought up before...Then please read it again because this is important !

                            I'm very concerned about what seems to be the bill's move toward reclassifying animals as pets rather than livestock, but not because of the financial reasons (though those are certainly valid). If horses are no longer livestock, then they are no longer under the jurisdiction of the USDA. While that may not effect many of you, anyone concerned about getting rid of horse abuse needs to be aware that the USDA is the sole enforcer of the Horse Protection Act. The HPA is the act that makes it illegal to sore a Tennessee Walking Horse. As imperfect as the act is, it is the ONLY legal protection these horses have against the abuse endemic to the TWH show world. If the USDA is taken out of the picture, it's open season on the most kind-hearted and0 giving of horse breeds.

                            Anyone who cares about horse abuse in any form has a responsibility, if not to directly help those of us who are actively fighting soring, at least to not make it harder on us to fight it. Please don't support any bill that reclassifies horses as anything other than livestock. We NEED the USDA!

                            Comment


                            • That statement is SO frustrating to me!!! Just because Marta, and I, and SeaOat, and many, many others disagree with you on what the bill means doesn't mean we are stupid, or lack the ability to analyse! Why can't you just stand by your position without insulting everyone who sees this issue differently!?

                              I disagree with you; I disagree with your analysis; I disagree that this bill will have a negative impact on the horse community. You've made your arguments, I've read them, and I still disagree. That's life!

                              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stilicho:
                              There is LOTS of things VERY WRONG with that Bill, provided one is able to analyse it. Its doesn't seem to be your case... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                              "It's not a perfect world....But it's still good to be alive! If you don't know by now, you'll probably never understand the way it feels to wanna live....One Perfect Moment!!"

                              Comment


                              • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SteppinEasy:

                                If horses are no longer livestock, then they are no longer under the jurisdiction of the USDA. While that may not effect many of you, anyone concerned about getting rid of horse abuse needs to be aware that the USDA is the sole enforcer of the Horse Protection Act. ... If the USDA is taken out of the picture... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                WRONG, also wrong, and wrong again. Slaughter legislation has nothing whatsoever to do with the Horse Protection Act. HPA is a separate act of Congress. USDA's funding for, and enforcement of, the HPA has no connection to slaughter legislation. HPA was not enacted on the horse's status as either livestock or a companion animal. It was enacted to stop a specific type of animal cruelty.

                                I keep asking for someone to point me to info. that states that USDA's only interest in horses is based on their status as livestock versus companion animal. In my forays onto the USDA website, I sure can't find anything to that effect. USDA regulates puppy mills, too, and last I'd heard, puppies weren't livestock.

                                I don't know why I bother to post on these threads.

                                Comment


                                • You are living in Never Never Land if you don't think it's related. The Horse Protection Act is funded by the Department of Agriculture because the horse is livestock.

                                  If the horse is neither "Food not Fiber" then it cannot be in the Department of Agriculture. Do you seriously think any Law spells out all of the implications that may come down the pike once it is passed?

                                  Ask anyone from the Department of Ag to define a farm product and you will get "Food or Fiber"; eat it or wear it. They regulate the puppy mills because they pretend to be farmers in an agricultural area usually with a farm product of some legitimate farm product and breeding puppies. They would otherwise have to comply with Kennel Zoning codes and the number of dogs restricted. Don't let a little error like the fact that no one has sued for a misuse of farmland and an error in their judgment. Loopholes exist until they're plugged by some irritating citizen.

                                  There is a thin gray line between breeding and owning. Companion animals can be much more resticted than breeding animals and if you are selectively breeding pedigreed dogs it might even be considered like fish farming.

                                  In communities they want all the dogs neutered that are companion animals so there is no breeding, that leaves the back door wide open. Where there is a market for a product someone will fill that need and there is an annual market for puppies in direct proportion to the number of new born children.

                                  I think you keep posting because you think eventually you'll get the answers you want.
                                  http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

                                  Comment


                                  • Snowbird, I would like to be respectful, but you're full of baloney.

                                    I have a lots of opportunites to peruse the USDA website because I work for the USDA. Your statements on this issue just have no credibility in my eyes, since you persist in spouting as "fact" things that are simply not true.

                                    HPA is an act of Congress that is 30+ years old. It is enforced by the USDA. It is funded by Congress. And it has nothing to do with horse slaughter legislation, or with the status of horses as livestock or companion animals. Since it took an act of Congress to create the HPA, it would also require a specific act of Congress to repeal it. It simply isn't going away.

                                    I *have* read the HPA, and lots of the Animal Care regs. I've even prepared Congressional testimony on funding of those regs. How about you?

                                    Regardless of my opinion on the issue of slaughter, I am disgusted by the vocal posters opposing the slaughter legislation, who keep calling holders of contrary opinions naive. Believe it or not, people may disagree with you because you're just plain factually wrong.

                                    Comment


                                    • Someone above said that 'even with slaughter allowed, there are still horses frozen to the ground and starved, etc'
                                      At the risk of a good flogging, errr, that would NOT happen if there were still slaughter plants in every state. There was one in Virginia years ago; this meant that the few horses that were irretrievably lame or 'bad' could go there, not having to ship too far.
                                      The problem is that owners can't easily send their horses off and earn just a few $$ to care for the ones that ARE healthy and productive. Its unattractive to send them to a sale, on a van, to another sale, in another pen, on a longggg ship to Mexico or Canada or whereever the hell they have to go nowadays. Why not make it easier, not harder, on responsible horse owners?
                                      Yes yes, humane treatment, adequate water, calm confident competent bolt useage etc. But methinks we're making this wayyyy too hard.
                                      * www.huntersrest.net -- Virginia hunt country's best Bed-and-Breakfast-and-Barn.

                                      Comment


                                      • Give credit (or blame) where it's due, Hunter's Rest. The smaller plants, like the one in VA, closed for economic reasons, not because of anti-slaughter activists. If it were economically viable, it might still be there.

                                        Comment


                                        • Well now isn't it nice that we can disagree. That's what a public forum is for and sometimes people learn new things and somethimes they don't learn anything.

                                          I appreciate you effort to be respectful and I think you for the effort whether successful or not. My information comes first hand from the Department of Agriculture with their represents who were present for that purpose at the American Horse Council Meeting and from participating with our own New Jersey Department of Agriculture. It also comes from 30+ years of experience with both Associations and their relationship with the Department of Agriculture.

                                          I was deeply involved during the past Farmland Assessment issues here in New Jersey. I have been involved with the Farmland Preservation Programs and I can tell you that whatever you're research it's incorrect. It is a daisy chain of circumstances that keeps us in the Department of Agriculture a change in any one thing could get us off the Board of Agriculture. Most states have s seat for horses only because it produces the 5th highest domestic groos product for the state in Agriculture and the Fema people said they would not rescue horses because they were not a valuable enough commodity to Agriculture.

                                          So while we each think we are right the differences and the opportunity ot express them is what I appreciate and respect.
                                          http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X