Thanks!!!
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Any man who can render himself unconscious with a pretzel, isn't smart enough to lead the Free World -
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaOat:
Louise mod decided for some reason to close all threads (including one that began before this one). I've asked why the RACING threads were closed, will see. Louise? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I am always against "moderation" in any Forum. However this time I must applaud the intervention of Louise because duplicating threads is not the way of doing anything, just a way of spending unnecessary bandwith that costs money. Thanks Louise !
I am only surprised why they didn't opt to close them all, because this brainwashing that is going on is clearly out of proportion and poisoning an otherwise very warm relationship between all posters.___________________________________________
[i]50,000 horses a year with a life span left in average of 10 years, means half a million horses to take care with a cost tag of a BILLION DOLLARS plus. There are plenty of far more urgent [b]human needs[Comment
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This seems excessive! There are lots of open threads that fit that description! People just disagree. I'm glad the thread is here - I learned some new things. And it is possible to disagree without rancor, if we respect one another's rights to hold an opinion.
Where I have been offended here is by the suggestion that because I hold my particular view, I am therefore uneducated on the subject or on the way the world works. No, I've done my research, done my homework, lived in the world for 35 years with plenty of life experiences, including a 4 year stint at the White House -- working to end horse slaughter is still the position I choose to take. I know it differs from the positions some others of you hold, but I arrived here honestly, and this is where I stand.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldEagle:
I am only surprised why they didn't opt to close them all, because this brainwashing that is going on is clearly out of proportion and poisoning an otherwise very warm relationship between all posters. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>"It's not a perfect world....But it's still good to be alive! If you don't know by now, you'll probably never understand the way it feels to wanna live....One Perfect Moment!!"Comment
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Sometimes Mods think differently on things. We'll discuss, and may reopen the thread on the Racing Forum, though it is my belief that one thread on any subject is enough for any one BB. It will remain closed for the time being.
However, if the sniping and insults do not stop on this thead, it will be closed, regardless of what we decide on the Racing thread.If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.
Desmond TutuComment
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BALD eagle:
It's approx. 55,000 horses annually, but what does it matter.....they can be EUTHANISED (NOT financially "taken care of" into old age at BILLIONS of dollars).
Around here we euthanised enough in the course of a month to know how easily it can be done, and it's no doubt *the cheapest* part of owning a horse! Ha! Figure that!! No seriously, figure it.
A waste of bandwidth? There you go again, fretting over something you're not paying for.
How surprising you are against moderation until it suits your agenda.
And since you brought up wasting broadband, are you also Stlicho or not??"There's a fine line between genius and madness. I've removed that line." -Super Genius/meComment
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Racing gets *accused* of supplying the majority of horses in the kill pens. It is VERY fitting the topic is allowed to run there also. This topic has surfaced on every forum & I find it a personal move when picking racing as a place to not allow it. As well OTTB "rescues" from slaughter post EVERYWHERE.
It was a pretty friendly thread over on racing that was closed at that!
In fact, it was started there LONG before this thread, many times. And often snarky remarks are made on previous threads on OT telling us racing folk how we are most responsible. So what now, no one is allowed to bring up horse slaughter unless on this thread, on this forum??????"There's a fine line between genius and madness. I've removed that line." -Super Genius/meComment
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Any popular breed is going to be overproduced. For every top notch own son of X there are many, many, modest own son's of X, and daughters, and half siblings, etc, down the point where someone runs an ad that reads 'ABC and 123 bloodlines' even though those famous faces are 7 or 8 tiers back in their papers.
It doesn't matter whether they are arabians, TBs, QHs, mutts, etc...at some point many are essentially cast offs with nowhere to go. Me, I'd rather be run through a kill pen than rot forgotten and mouldering with bad feet and even worse rain scald, 'retired' in some back field somewhere.
All horses go to heaven, I'm OK with that. We need legislature to create equine heaven on earth? For all of these creatures? No.Comment
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Louise:
However, if the sniping and insults do not stop on this thead, it will be closed, regardless of what we decide on the Racing thread. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thank you Louise for popping in and saying that. I have not figured out why some folks and often the same people time after time
can't discuss a subject without being sarcastic, nasty and personal.
I just want to say that I appreciate what you mods do. I am also a moderator on another board and know what a thankless job it really is and that it's nice to be appreciated once in a while.
Comment
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http://www.sharkonline.org/horseslaughter.mv
This is a veterinarian sponsored set of videos (scroll down site) of the normal proccess of a slaughter plant, following horses down the line from start to "finish". It will surprise you, no matter what you think you know about slaughter. These film clips are NOT of a rare occurance, but of what is normal in slaughtering a horse.
Keep in mind while viewing: It is not in a horses nature to stand still while a piece of machinery is coming towards their head. There is echoing noise and bloody smells all around. This is reason enough to give credit to these clips as "the norm".
I hope you watch, while upsetting and time consuming, it is a visual that is useful to understand the need for everyone who is active in the horse community to stand up CALMLY & INTELLIGENTLY (not emotional & ranting) do what you can to stop this.
Regardless of it's effects on stopping or not stopping other countries from this practice, we as a civilized nation should not participate. As a group of people who's nation was founded on the back of a horse, who finds pleasure with a horse, there is no excuse to ignore this or find it in the best alternative interest for a horse.
You've read all the pros & cons till you're blue in the face but have you really had a look at the actual proccess? No matter your position, it is THE fundamental piece of your education on the subject. No matter who you are or to what level you are envolved in horsemanship."There's a fine line between genius and madness. I've removed that line." -Super Genius/meComment
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Yes! it is always gross and unpleasant to think about any creatures being murdered for any reason. It is an unpleasant thought we prefer not to consider. It is however, equally unpleasant and gross for fish, chickens, birds of all kinds, pigs, goats, sheep and of course the cow.
The video does not say why the horse should be special and not included as livestock. The video would make my long term suggestion more practical if all these energy and time went into the proper laws controlling slaughter houses and the way that all creatures meet their demise.
From a marketing perspective it is the same as showing a fetus as a reason to deprive women of the right to choose. There is a time and place when it may be more cruel and damaging to preserve life. We all make those choices. You certainly have the right to choose to never eat any creature. But you do not have the right to pass a law that tells me what I may eat and what I may not eat. Certainly, neither of us has the right to other people from other societies what they may or may not eat or how the creature must be killed.
We excecute people in what is supposed to be kind ways. Yet, I don't think the prolonged torture of laying strapped to a table knowing that there are chemicals in a bag that will kill you and then watching them seep into your veins is particularly kind even if well intentioned. Killing anything even people is a nasty business and none of us want any part of any of it and we don't want to see pictures or keep it in our mind.
There are farmers who kill a chicken by chopping off it's head. It's been known to run around the yard minus the head for some time afterwards. Fish when they are hooked and taken out of the water die from breathing the air that keps us alive.
I will live with these problems before I am prepared to replace that food with chemical alternatives.Comment
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snowbird:
Yes! it is always gross and unpleasant to think about any creatures being murdered for any reason. It is an unpleasant thought we prefer not to consider. It is however, equally unpleasant and gross for fish, chickens, birds of all kinds, pigs, goats, sheep and of course the cow.
The video does not say why the horse should be special and not included as livestock. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
precisely why we should ban slaughter of all animals.http://www.eponashoe.com/
TQ(Trail Queen) \"Learn How to Ride or Move Over!!\" CliqueComment
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I have signed the petition ! Horse slaughter is sickening. I can't even begin to go into the horrors that I have witnessed.
I just wish it would stop. Horses are not livestock ! They never have been and never will be.
If the foriegn owned slaughter houses stay I guess Dog and Cat slaughter houses are the next big business for unwanted dogs and cats.
It would be the same thing.Ms Robin
Farm Websites & SEO, Low Prices, Barter available!
~No Horses to Slaughter clique~Comment
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"But you do not have the right to pass a law that tells me what I may eat and what I may not eat."
Really Snowbird?? You think you have a right to eat WHATEVER you want? Hmmm. That certainly explains some things. And I do have the right to tell you what you can eat or not, if the law says so. A law brought on by majority vote. Horses are not meant to be a food items, IMO and I believe that is already a law in this country (that you cannot eat them here). Just as certain drugs are legal in other countries, do you think it OK for our farmers to grow opium for export?
But curious, you think pigs, horses, cattle, falcons, rhinos, elephants, condors, etc., should be treated w/ blanket laws/rules? And if not, how did these separations evolve, IYO?
You think domesticated horses previously handled as companion animals, as the ones you enjoy on your farm, should be treated the same as cattle who were grown for food? Do you think anyone would know how *all* food animals are processed were videos as these not reported, and are they not essential to educate those willing to change inhumane slaughter, regardless if you want to eat meat (I do) or not????
Did you see "the video" (there were several, had you bothered to look)?
And comparing human fetuses & the issues surrounding them is as far fetched as me bringing up areas of the planet where consuming humans is acceptable, I'd say you're being silly by doing so."There's a fine line between genius and madness. I've removed that line." -Super Genius/meComment
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This SeaOat is like the Islamic fundamentalists clerics.
We nee the intervention of the USAF fast pretty fast
__________________________________________________ __________Comment
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by marta:
precisely why we should ban slaughter of all animals. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
For someone that in this thread was just pretending "to get yourself educated" you did it very fast didn't you ???
You are like those thinly disguised horse ads… How much should I ask for this horse ?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
"... the general trend of the last thirty years has been one of falling incomes, despite a steadily growing economy."
- Jeremy Rifkin, The End of Work
The U.S. Bureau of the Census shows that 13.3% of Americans, or 35.6 million people, lived in poverty in 1997. Forty-one per cent of those (14.6 million) had incomes of less than half the poverty level. The definition of a poverty level income for a family of four in that year was $16,813 and below. (For the year 2000 it is projected to be $17,050 and for 2003 $18.932 a year.)
While the number of people living at or below the poverty line has not changed in recent years, the number of those living in "extreme poverty" has increased by over three per cent. <span class="ev_code_RED">Forty per cent of persons living in poverty are children. In fact, the 1997 poverty rate for children is almost twice as high as the poverty rate for any other age group.</span> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Understanding Poverty in America
POVERTY IN AMERICA - We can end it
Poverty in America - Poll and the results
Statistics on poverty & food wastage in America
More grist for campaigns: Poverty in America rises
Executive Summary: - Understanding Poverty in America
The number of Americans in poverty is rising, as is the number without health insurance.
Kaiser Foundation - National Survey on Poverty in America
Poverty USA: The State of Poverty in America
What does it mean to be poor in America?
Patterns of Poverty in America
On homelessness and Poverty
U S Census Bureau - POVERTY
$18.932 a year
50,000 horses a year to take care for 10 to 15 years need Billions of dollars in infrastructures and over a Billion annually to take care of. There are no way out, magic wands, theories, fairy tales, stories or pure fabrications of "vanishing horses" by the will of a few that persist in the sick proposal of putting animals ahead of human beings.
And those pro-bill money grabbers with some thinly disguised "Horse Rescues" behind want Billions of dollars for horse welfare. You should be ashame of yourselves.
This is really a case of complete failure to understand what this bill is all about and its consequences INCLUDING those that breed and raise horse not to speak about FARMERS.
<span class="ev_code_RED">Save the horses -- slaughter the children instead!!!</span>
Ahhhh those tax cuts somebody did to the rich so they can keep on doing things like this !!!!__________________________________________________ __________Comment
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>precisely why we should ban slaughter of all animals <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
There now we have the truth, you believe that we should not eat any meat. That my friend is not your decision THANK GOD! You are not either God or the font of all wisdom simply a victim of a contemporary fad that will pass away quietly one day and that would destroy civilization because we would all be sick if we did not eat real food and we tried to live on reconstituted chemical combinations intended to taste like food.
You are free to gorge on oat meal if that is how you want to spend your time. I on the other hand enjoy a rack of lamb, a rare filet mignon, a tasty pork roast, wine and good company. Unfortunately, I will not be here to see how you fare when you are my age if you are here at all by then.
I think the purpose of all this propaganda is some mischievious plot to rid the earth of people too. Every thing that walks and breathes makes waste and adds carbon dioxide to the the world. We are the pollutants but we are made in the image of "GOD".
What is next to control porcreation so nothing less than perfect people are born. How boring the world would be!
You SeaOat have my blessings to spew your venom because I think you may need to do so for therapy with such a black view of humanity. You do not by any law made by God or man have the right to tell me to do anything. The law only means a professional cannot slaughter dogs for food, but they and horses can be equally cruelly slaughtered for glue and other by-products. So what have you accomplished except to look like a narrow minded would be Master of the human race.
They can be slaughtered privately for food if it is so desired. You on the otherhand cannot have it both ways if a horse is a domestic farm animal then he is livestock, if on the other hand the horse is always born wild and never domesticated then you are protected by the Equine Activity Laws. A wild animal is not protected by any statute from being slaughtered by anyone even you.Comment
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldEagle:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by _SeaOat_:
Louise mod decided for some reason to close all threads (including one that began before this one). I've asked why the RACING threads were closed, will see. Louise? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I am always against "moderation" in any Forum. However this time I must applaud the intervention of Louise because duplicating threads is not the way of doing anything, just a way of spending unnecessary bandwith that costs money. Thanks Louise !
I am only surprised why they didn't opt to close them all, because this brainwashing that is going on is clearly out of proportion and poisoning an otherwise very warm relationship between all posters. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I believe Sea Oat's was up first, and much friendlier than this one. I post a lot on the racing forum and just noticed that there was another anti-slaughter topic on Off Course, and my, it's a hell of a lot nastier. Gee, why am I not surprised
Personally, I liked Sea Oat's better.-The Girl With Endoscope EyesComment
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stilicho:
This _SeaOat_ is like the Islamic fundamentalists clerics.
We nee the intervention of the USAF fast pretty fast <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Gee, Bald Eagle, taking up more bandwith?-The Girl With Endoscope EyesComment
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Soup From the Store:
I believe Sea Oat's was up first, and much friendlier than this one. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
As usually you are dead wrong.
The person you mentioned made a cross post from this one. Just check the date and time and you will see.
No wonder you like that person's style better.
From my point of view she is simply disgusting and I don't like your "soup" very much either...__________________________________________________ __________Comment
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To everything Snowbird just posted:
Quit being such a bitch. Snippy people like YOU are the reason most of us prefer horses to humans anyway
I, personally, saw nothing wrong with slaughter. But then I watched those videos.
Are you telling me these poor animals have done something to DESERVE this fate? Suggesting, perhaps, that because something cannot EASILY be done about it, nothing should be done at all?
I think any person who can watch that and not have at least a small twinge of guilt is no horse lover at all.
And not all of us animal lovers eat oatmeal, Snowbird. There are plenty of options available, including farm raised meat, milk, and cageless chicken and eggs.
I have no problem with slaughter when the animals have a good life and are killed HUMANELY!
A missed bolt to the head is hardly humane.
I'm just so disgusted with what I have read on this forum it makes me sick. THIS is the reason I rarely post here anymore.-The Girl With Endoscope EyesComment
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