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fugly blog and AC4H

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  • fugly blog and AC4H

    http://fuglyblog.com/

    I am running out now, but will add my own disappointing experience when I purchased 3 horses from AC4H and made a sizable donation.

    I have not said anything, because a horse saved is a horse saved, but what this woman wrote on fugly, I can say I experienced the same thing. Plus, my donation was not able to be accounted for!!! Please. Christy is smooth, and I thought I finally found a good rescue I could make a donation to.

    I donated to quite a few rescues that particular year, and in all honesty, the only one I think is above board and ethical is CANTER.

    I am not discouraging people from buying from the likes of AC4H, but please do not donate extra...unless you don't care where your money is going. Yes, you will pay high price for a slaughter horse that probably went for 10 bucks and line some kill buyer and Christy's pockets. But, you also do save a life.

    I haven't said anything to anyone till now...because I don't want to harm a horse's chance.
    But, I don't donate anymore(aside from the fact, I run my own little rescue here...non profit and treat these horses as my own, and pay barn help, etc out of my pocket).

    When money donated could not be accounted for where it was spent, and I got the same line, you can't come to the feedlot to pick up your horse, but I can get someone to bring it to you(actually the father of a well know jumper), well, they are all in on it.
    There is a lot of money to be made off bleeding hearts...and some people know it.
    This is when I think of Karma, or God and meeting him and explaining your choices and what you did not only to people, but to the horse. Hell, yup.
    save lives...spay/neuter/geld

  • #2
    Just what I needed on a Sun. morning. That's absolutely sickening.
    "Rock n' roll's not through, yeah, I'm sewing wings on this thing." --Destroyer
    http://dressagescriblog.wordpress.com/

    Comment


    • #3
      Wow. And this is why I am leary of sending money to a person who deals with the KB who won't let you send the money to the KB and just pick up the horse yourself.

      Comment


      • #4
        Im sorry you and this person have had a bad experience with AC4H. Like you said, a life saved is a life saved and sometimes thats what it comes down to. I think a lot of people just purchase the horse off the feedlot and then dont make any donation towards AC4H. While i don't personally know Christy or have any experience with her I can tell you that some of the money generated from each horse saved goes back to the rescue to pay for gas, shipping, feed, vet care, farrier work, etc on all of the horses that AC4H currently houses.

        I think the kill buyer price listed on the horses on AC4H's website is very the majority of the kill buyer's asking price. He's your typical KB who is going to mark up the price as much as he can and try and get it from outside buyers within one week. if he can't get the price....then the horse goes to the slaughterhouse and another takes its place the following week. Im sure Ac4H makes a $100 off each horse.

        What i dont understand from the listed story is why the author would feel the need to phone the Moore's houshold repeatedly within one day to try and see if the shipper could come THAT DAY. Heck if someone left me repeated messages on my ansewring machine; i'd pick up screaming too. If the daughter had JUST paypal'ed the money to Christy then its obvious that the KB hadn't recieved the money yet and it was obvious to me that it was OK for the wife of Brian to tell her she couldn't have the horse until they recieved the money from Christy.

        I do think the author took it a step too far. You were dealing with a very well known rescue which has worked this way for many years so far without a hitch. i don't see the big deal with picking up the horse at New Holland on monday when Brian goes there to drop of the sold ones and pick up his next load fromt he auction that day.

        Lastly, if you want to be professional....don't TEXT the person who is bringing in your horse...CALL THEM AND ASK. Instead of running around the auctin and created a ruckus, why didnt she just WAIT for Christy to arrive to determine where her horse was. This lady needs to keep in mind that the horse auctin at New Holland every monday is a business and Brian Moore is there to do his business and she doesn't need to be going around the auction creating a scene. Why didnt she just take a breath and wait for Christy to get there to help her find the horse.

        I was reading the confrontation with Dr Holt about the condition of the TB and while i understand their concern for the horse's condition...the horse is coming out of a FEEDLOT run by people who could really give a rats a$$ about the horses as long as they get money. The vet's job is to take coggins and treat the horses the Moore's want to treat. It is not Dr. Holt's job to contact each individual buyer of these horses to confront them about individual treatment of each horse. he is pulling coggins so that you can legally transport them....not to do individual evaluations. treatment can begin when the horse makes it to its next destination.....

        Whil i agree that Christy should of initiated some sort of treatment for the horse; you need to keep in mind that these horses have been crammed into pens, livestock trailers, run through auctions by careless people and many of them are in need of some major TLC. you are not buying from a sales barn. you are buying from a horse dealer, kill buyer who doesnt care about the horse other than what it will bring in for money on the hoof

        Comment


        • #5
          i for one, know that KB's don't want to deal with the private buyer if they don't have to. they dont want to welcome this horse rescuing nuts to their farm because then people start getting emotional, might see something they dont want them to see, etc. They dont want to deal with paypal, etc. Its too much hassle for them. if they are going to do it; theyd much rather have another rescue help them with it under certain rules and guidelines.

          As for Frank who owns Camelot Auction. He IS NOT the norm. If you want to buy one of his kill pen horses he allows you to call him directly and discuss the horse and pay over the phone. Frank is quite nice to deal with and hes very willing and generous when it comes to selling his feedlot horses. but i repeat, HE IS NOT THE NORM and he is probably the only persn or KB who operates in such manner. just try and buy one of the kill pen horses from one of the KB at new holland and see how much of a hassle they will give you.

          Comment


          • #6
            Wow....how sad....No wonder I don't trust "rescues".....and don't want to deal with them again....

            Not including SKA and a few others.....
            Life is too short to argue with a mare! Just don't engage! It is much easier that way!

            Have fun, be safe, and let the mare think it is her idea!

            Comment


            • #7
              To me, AC4H is the CBER of the East. Without the child molesting sidekick...

              Same business model, same lines, same "truck is coming" ... I got caught with CBER and since, I have never looked at a horse on AC4H. Burned once, never again.

              I am truly sorry for the horses that get caught in the pipeline, but there are many that can be saved before someone else gets their greedy hands on them. Christy seems to have soooo much time posting on ABR too...

              quote " Im sure Ac4H makes a $100 off each horse"
              Where do they state they make $100 (only $100?). CBER used to "make" $50, then $150 and sometimes, they made double the horse "price". So I don't believe anything ...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by farmgirl88 View Post
                the horse is coming out of a FEEDLOT run by people who could really give a rats a$$ about the horses as long as they get money.
                Oh, it sounds like the FEEDLOT people weren't the only ones who couldn't give a rat's ass about the horse as long as they got the MONEY.
                Sheilah

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by farmgirl88 View Post
                  might see something they dont want them to see, etc.
                  That would the TBs Brian Moore gets shipped from Penn National; the ones which should be protected by their zero tolerance policy.

                  Funny how those identifiable horses never show up on the broker page.
                  ************************
                  \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    My opinion is that it is not really saving horses, it is just exchanging it for another nameless photoless other unfortunate that takes it's place and then some considering the HUGE markup the broker makes. You buy one horse from him at an inflated price, he can now afford to ship 2 or more in its place. Is this really rescue?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Maybe some people are missing one hard fact. IF the horse had not been not listed on the broker pages, it would be long gone and dead meat. If the former owner had not been notifed about her horse's situation (by Marli, I believe), again dead meat. The rest of the story is just hysterical overkill.

                      I can see why the dealer didn't want just anyone coming onto his place and letting just one person list his horses. That's just the fact of the situation. The fact that the prior owner tried to bypass the chain of command only served to piss everyone off, especially the broker. That's why he has Christy handling all the details--he doesn't want to be bothered by all this crap.

                      Ownership--Christy collects the money on her PayPal. She evidently pays the broker on Mondays at NH. Until she gives him his money he (or she) has actual ownership of the horse. Again the owner was trying to pick up a horse that had not officially been paid for.

                      Broker vs auction. I believe we are dealing with the old retail vs wholesale pricing thing. Brokers are allowed to try to sell item (horse) at a retail price. If it doesn't sell, he already has it pre-sold at the plant. Anyone who doesn't want to pay retail can go to the auction and pay wholesale. The $25 which is charged by Christy can be called a handling fee for her time and effort to photograph and list these horses. I have no objection to that.

                      Bottom line is that the owner had to wait an additional day or two before they picked up their horse. The horse did not die from the infected leg. Because he was listed on the broker page and somone notified the past owner, he got to live. The owner should be grateful for that one little fact.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I don't have any dealings with AC4H or read Fugly except for the occasional linked entry from here, so I don't really have a dog in this fight. But I have to say, the woman who wrote that account sounded a bit nutty. So the broker sometimes gives lessons and hosts shows at his property, that means she can come pick up a horse whenever she wants, even though arrangements have been made? Just because he sometimes deals with the public doesn't mean he has to deal with her, and honestly I can understand why he doesn't want to get personally involved with people getting horses through AC4H. And Paypal does take awhile, sometimes 3-4 days for the payment to clear, and then Christy would have to get it to him...sounds to me like there were plenty of reasons AC4H set it up that way, but the writer didn't want to play by their rules. And her behavior at the auction itself sounds obnoxious and kind of bizarre.

                        I'm not saying there wasn't anything shady on AC4H's part (unless the author was flat-out lying, it sounds like they at least need to clarify their ownership policy/be careful what they say, and the "their blood is on your hands" histrionics are absurd), and if I ever were to do anything with them (not likely because I'm on the other side of the country and there are plenty of horses in need around here) I'd keep this in mind, but I can also understand why Christy and the broker were upset with her actions.
                        exploring the relationship between horse and human

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          so let me see if I understand this correctly...minus the hysteria.

                          Billie was contacted by a person about a horse bred by a deceased relative that was at a broker.

                          There is an Middle Person who deals with both the broker and the buyer.

                          The deal is that the Buyer sends money to Middle Person, who then hands the money to Broker who gives over the horse at an assigned day. Which is when/where the buyer can pick up the horse. Pretty simple when you don't add in all the "but he's hurt!" and "why do I have to give YOU the money!" and the "she won't do it my way!" wailing.

                          If the buyer doesn't want to do it this way, it does not equal the broker OR the buyer being bad guys. It means the buyer has a choice to make....do it their way or leave the horse.

                          The problem came when the Buyer decided to harass the Brokers Wife at home and bother the Vet and the Broker at the place of business.

                          This actually happens all the time without drama in other circumstances. Buyer contacts Agent to find a horse, Agent finds a horse and Buyer pays Agent who pays Seller what Agent and Seller agreed to.

                          Buyer>Agent>Seller>Agent>Buyer. What happens between Agent and Seller is THEIR business.

                          I am unclear if this was really about getting the horse, or pointing out that there is still a pipeline for OTTB to go to slaughter. Two different issues.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            There are many layers to this that stretch over years and neither Ann R nor Christi S are wrong or right, just very different in their approach to keeping thoroughbreds out of slaughter. It's a shame to see the "facts" presented so that one damns the other. Here's an advisory to keep in mind, people tend not to use the internet to serve justice, fairness, truth, etc.

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                            • #15
                              I'm pretty sure people like the one writing on Fugly are exactly why kill buyers don't want to deal with the public. Calling the KB's wife immediately and repeatedly after sending Paypal, and arranging a shipper before knowing if anyone was even on the farm? She knew she was dealing with a go-between, of course the money might take a day or more to make it to the horse's current owner.

                              I've never heard of this rescue and for all I know it might be crooked as hell. But Billie's mom is a freaking nutcase too. If I was the one who had to deal with her I'd have refunded her the PP payment and told her to take a flying leap.
                              Proud Member Of The Lady Mafia

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                It always raises eyebrows for me when rescues are BFFs with kill buyers. Talk about keeping the buyers in business....

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Paragon View Post
                                  It always raises eyebrows for me when rescues are BFFs with kill buyers. Talk about keeping the buyers in business....
                                  so by this thought process, if the Agent doesn't have a relationship with the Broker, the horses won't go to slaughter?

                                  No. The logic doesn't work.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by threedogpack View Post
                                    so let me see if I understand this correctly....
                                    Thank you for the synopsis. I skimmed the really.lengthy.letter. on Fugly, and that's what I got out of it, too.

                                    I don't get what AC4H did wong. I've never used paypal, but if it's true that it takes 72 hrs for funds to go through, I can understand AC4H getting really upset about someone trying to collect the horse before it received funds.

                                    I don't know about all the "blood on their hands" hysteria. Whenever I hear or read that kind of hyperbole, I tune out.
                                    I'm not ignoring the rules. I'm interpreting the rules. Tamal, The Great British Baking Show

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' View Post
                                      Thank you for the synopsis. I skimmed the really.lengthy.letter. on Fugly, and that's what I got out of it, too.

                                      I don't get what AC4H did that's so bad.
                                      You're welcome. I have to sift through the hysteria all the time at work and pick out the bits that matter. Most of this was side issue and frantic noise.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I got totally confused by the post on FUgly.

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