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Barefoot advice please - update post 55

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Alter1234 View Post
    I guess I could ask the farrier for specific reasons, rather than just accepting a blanket "no".
    I'd really have a good talk with your farrier before making your decision. He may have some very valid reasons for not feeling like barefoot is a good choice for your horse.

    If he can't or won't give you a reason, though, I'd politely explain to him that you want to give it a try and you will be seeking the help of someone willing to assist you with that. If it really is financially motivated, he may change his tune if he thinks he'll lose your business entirely.

    Definitely give him a chance to explain himself, though. From what you've told us it doesn't sound like there's any issue that would prevent him from going barefoot, but since none of us have seen your horse our advice is worth exactly what you've paid for it.
    exploring the relationship between horse and human

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    • Original Poster

      #22
      Originally posted by Pristine View Post
      I think barefoot with boots when out on trails sounds best. I have 2 Thoroughbreds and both are barefoot year round. All of the horses I have had have always been barefoot during the time I owned them. If your financial situation gets worse and your horse is well behaved you could get a farrier kit for $24.(rasp only $9.) and a book on hoof care. Rasping hooves once a week might be all he needs if he does not get enough exercise to wear them down. Mustangs never get their hooves trimmed as long as they are running wild and do just fine. Farriers are not a necessity. Carrots are an excellent source of biotin,protein,vitamins and minerals for hooves. Mine get some every day.
      To this point we haven't done much in the way of trail riding, but boots will be an option should we start! My guy gets 5lbs of carrots a week . . .

      Not sure I'd be comfortable getting a farrier kit, although I did rasp my mare's hooves occasionally. Wouldn't want to attempt a trim though.

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      • Original Poster

        #23
        Originally posted by danceronice View Post
        My farrier sounds like Sandy M's--he will use shoes if he thinks the horse NEEDS shoes (ie, if I were going to start taking Lucky foxhunting and would be galloping on wet grass where I might need studs, if he had something wrong with his hoof that wearing shoes would help) but he'd prefer to keep them barefoot if possible as it's easier on all concerned. When he pulled Lucky's racing plates he was a little concerned about him being sore at first, but Lucky walked off without even a wince, and he let the hoof grow for a while and decided shoes weren't necessary right now. If that changes, he'll let me know.
        You are lucky!

        I would absolutely ask for a specific 'why' besides 'everyone at the barn does it.' Not to sound like a mother but if everyone in the barn jumped off a bridge, would you? You are the client and customer and the one paying the bills. At minimum you should get an explanation specific to your horse.
        You're right - I am the one paying the bills and I should be able to get a detailed explanation about "why" for my horse.
        Might be a totally valid reason, then again, might not be!

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        • Original Poster

          #24
          Originally posted by CosMonster View Post
          I'd really have a good talk with your farrier before making your decision. He may have some very valid reasons for not feeling like barefoot is a good choice for your horse.

          If he can't or won't give you a reason, though, I'd politely explain to him that you want to give it a try and you will be seeking the help of someone willing to assist you with that. If it really is financially motivated, he may change his tune if he thinks he'll lose your business entirely.

          Definitely give him a chance to explain himself, though. From what you've told us it doesn't sound like there's any issue that would prevent him from going barefoot, but since none of us have seen your horse our advice is worth exactly what you've paid for it.
          Yes, I think I owe my farrier the chance to explain why he feels so strongly about shoes for my guy. Maybe we could just try barefoot in the back to start and see how it goes . . .

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          • #25
            My farrier seems to have no shortage of business and didn't bat an eye when I asked him to pull my OTTB's shoes this summer. Sure, he gets paid less just to trim, BUT it takes less than half the time and a lot less effort, too, so I don't see how he'd be getting a bad deal. (LOVE my farrier, btw...)

            I would be highly suspicious of a farrier, trainer, BO, or anyone who told me that my horse HAD to be in shoes without providing a darned good reason for it... Especially in OP's case, where her horse had previously been barefoot and fine with it. MY horse, MY decision, you know?
            *friend of bar.ka

            "Evidently, I am an unrepentant b*tch, possible trouble maker, and all around super villian"

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            • Original Poster

              #26
              Originally posted by cnvh View Post
              My farrier seems to have no shortage of business and didn't bat an eye when I asked him to pull my OTTB's shoes this summer. Sure, he gets paid less just to trim, BUT it takes less than half the time and a lot less effort, too, so I don't see how he'd be getting a bad deal. (LOVE my farrier, btw...)
              Not many just get a trim any more . . . If I decide to go barefoot though, I would switch to the barefoot trimmer I had used previously for another horse. Farrier trim was OK, but I think the barefoot trimmer did a much more thorough job.

              I would be highly suspicious of a farrier, trainer, BO, or anyone who told me that my horse HAD to be in shoes without providing a darned good reason for it... Especially in OP's case, where her horse had previously been barefoot and fine with it. MY horse, MY decision, you know?
              Totally agree, my horse, my decision - his feet were pretty cr@ppy when I bought him and I could honestly see why they might have put him in shoes. Now however, his hooves have improved tremendously and I think it might be worth a try.

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              • #27
                FWIW, barefoot is much easier to deal with in the snow
                I wasn't always a Smurf
                Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
                "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

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                • Original Poster

                  #28
                  Originally posted by carolprudm View Post
                  FWIW, barefoot is much easier to deal with in the snow
                  Sure is! Last winter, and this still scares me (although it turned out OK) he was in regular shoes all around with snow pads in front. I asked the farrier then about it being dangerous to have regular shoes (no borium) with icy paddocks, etc. He said not to worry - I did - a lot. I think we were lucky not to have had any issues with slipping, etc.

                  I have seldom had a horse with shoes over the winter (usually barefoot), when I did it was just fronts and then they had borium . . . of course, I was mostly trail riding then.
                  Last edited by Alter1234; Sep. 16, 2010, 10:32 AM. Reason: addtional text

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                  • #29
                    Jesus H. Christ am the only one left in the country that still shoes in the summer jerks them off in the winter and does NOT have a horses that are "expected to be lame and sore for months"?!?!?!?!

                    I grew up with summer shod horses and barefoot winter horses, for the most part I still do it that way when I can. I do NOT have lame horses after pulling shoes!!! The whole line of "lame or sore for weeks or months is normal" is a load of BS. A horse that has GOOD feet will not go lame when his shoes are pulled! Most polo ponies spend half the year shod and half the year barefoot and they sure as heck do not limp around for weeks, need "hoof boots" and come up lame. A horse that has GOOD feet and has been correctly shod will "transition" (I hate to use that word) to barefoot with the aid of a GOOD farrier/trimmer/witchdoctor/whatever with no lameness! Horses that come up lame are either POORLY/INCORRECTLY trimmed (for THAT horse) or had poor feet to begin with. Again many horses do half on half off shoeing and barefoot year round and they are NOT lame. IT used to be pretty normal to keep horses this way, shoes in the summer, barefoot in the winter. At some point it went to either or ALL the time. Then for some reason people got it in their head that a horse SHOULD be lame after pulling it's shoes, or that it's NORMAL. IT's not!

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                    • #30
                      Yes, it used to be very common for horses to have their shoes pulled for the winter.

                      The only comment I'd make is to pull the shoes before the ground gets frozen; it will make the transition easier.

                      But, if the horse was barefoot before, I wouldn't think there'd be a problem.
                      "The formula 'Two and two make five' is not without its attractions." --Dostoevsky

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                      • #31
                        When I switched my boy from being shod to the "wild horse" or "natural" trim which required a different farrier who only did that trim, I was just upfront with him about it and told him if it didn't work out, I'd be back.

                        That was like 5 years ago and Levi has been on that trim ever since. I bought an OTTB about 7 months ago and, as with most OTTBs, he had been shod pretty much his whole life. I pulled the shoes and we do the natural trim on him too. I ride him at least 6 days a week in a solid training regimen including jumping and hacking, my trimmer is thrilled with how his feet look. She uses him as an example to those who tell her they can't use her because they jump and horses can't be barefoot if they are in hard work. It's just not true! I think some horses must have shoes due to poor hooves or more work than their feet can handle but my boys both do great barefoot and I even trim them myself now (my farrier is THAT cool, she is teaching me!) so I'm saving lots of $$$.

                        I agree if your horse was barefoot once, he could be again since it seems he was just shod because "everyone is doing it" LOL.

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                        • Original Poster

                          #32
                          Originally posted by RougeEmpire View Post
                          Jesus H. Christ am the only one left in the country that still shoes in the summer jerks them off in the winter and does NOT have a horses that are "expected to be lame and sore for months"?!?!?!?!

                          I grew up with summer shod horses and barefoot winter horses, for the most part I still do it that way when I can. I do NOT have lame horses after pulling shoes!!! The whole line of "lame or sore for weeks or months is normal" is a load of BS. A horse that has GOOD feet will not go lame when his shoes are pulled! Most polo ponies spend half the year shod and half the year barefoot and they sure as heck do not limp around for weeks, need "hoof boots" and come up lame. A horse that has GOOD feet and has been correctly shod will "transition" (I hate to use that word) to barefoot with the aid of a GOOD farrier/trimmer/witchdoctor/whatever with no lameness! Horses that come up lame are either POORLY/INCORRECTLY trimmed (for THAT horse) or had poor feet to begin with. Again many horses do half on half off shoeing and barefoot year round and they are NOT lame. IT used to be pretty normal to keep horses this way, shoes in the summer, barefoot in the winter. At some point it went to either or ALL the time. Then for some reason people got it in their head that a horse SHOULD be lame after pulling it's shoes, or that it's NORMAL. IT's not!
                          I do remember those days and I agree - I'm not sure when it became acceptable for a horse to be "off" after a trim, unless there are extenuating (spelling?) circumstances.

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                          • Original Poster

                            #33
                            Originally posted by HappyHorselover View Post
                            When I switched my boy from being shod to the "wild horse" or "natural" trim which required a different farrier who only did that trim, I was just upfront with him about it and told him if it didn't work out, I'd be back.

                            That was like 5 years ago and Levi has been on that trim ever since. I bought an OTTB about 7 months ago and, as with most OTTBs, he had been shod pretty much his whole life. I pulled the shoes and we do the natural trim on him too. I ride him at least 6 days a week in a solid training regimen including jumping and hacking, my trimmer is thrilled with how his feet look. She uses him as an example to those who tell her they can't use her because they jump and horses can't be barefoot if they are in hard work. It's just not true! I think some horses must have shoes due to poor hooves or more work than their feet can handle but my boys both do great barefoot and I even trim them myself now (my farrier is THAT cool, she is teaching me!) so I'm saving lots of $$$.

                            I agree if your horse was barefoot once, he could be again since it seems he was just shod because "everyone is doing it" LOL.
                            I do think that honesty is the best policy and will let my farrier know that I would like to try going barefoot.

                            I only hope my guy does as well as yours seems to have done (fingers crossed)!

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                            • #34
                              I used a farrier *ONCE* who said it was normal for a horse to be off for at least three days after being shod or trimmed. Ummm. No, it's not.

                              I have the opposite problem from the OP with the farrier we use now - thank goodness! Like a lemming, I want to put shoes on because all the big jumpers have them (same reason I want a GPA helmet). But, as my farrier keeps patiently pointing out, my horse jumps great, is sound and happy barefoot and has been for the past 3 years.

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                              • Original Poster

                                #35
                                Originally posted by Come Shine View Post
                                I used a farrier *ONCE* who said it was normal for a horse to be off for at least three days after being shod or trimmed. Ummm. No, it's not.

                                I have the opposite problem from the OP with the farrier we use now - thank goodness! Like a lemming, I want to put shoes on because all the big jumpers have them (same reason I want a GPA helmet). But, as my farrier keeps patiently pointing out, my horse jumps great, is sound and happy barefoot and has been for the past 3 years.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  My horse was having trouble holding shoes last year. I discussed it with my farrier and she and I agreed to pull the shoes and use hoof boots to get him through the transition. A year later, my horse is still barefoot. He had no real "down time" during the process thanks to the boots and he did great barefoot over the winter.

                                  Another farrier at my barn told a barnmate not to pull her horse's shoes for the winter unless she didn't want to ride. I asked my farrier about this and her opinion was that either the farrier had insight into why this particular horse wouldn't be able to go barefoot or, more likely, he didn't want to cut his income from $200 plus for winter shoes to $50 for a trim.

                                  One thing I REALLY like about my farrier is that she wants to to the best thing for the horse. She agrees that my horse's feet look great and that going barefoot was the right choice -- even though she earns less from me. I am always there when she trims him and she's very collaborative and generous with her knowledge. Not every farrier I've worked with has been like that, though.
                                  Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
                                  EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

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                                  • Original Poster

                                    #37
                                    Originally posted by Bogie View Post
                                    My horse was having trouble holding shoes last year. I discussed it with my farrier and she and I agreed to pull the shoes and use hoof boots to get him through the transition. A year later, my horse is still barefoot. He had no real "down time" during the process thanks to the boots and he did great barefoot over the winter.

                                    Another farrier at my barn told a barnmate not to pull her horse's shoes for the winter unless she didn't want to ride. I asked my farrier about this and her opinion was that either the farrier had insight into why this particular horse wouldn't be able to go barefoot or, more likely, he didn't want to cut his income from $200 plus for winter shoes to $50 for a trim.

                                    One thing I REALLY like about my farrier is that she wants to to the best thing for the horse. She agrees that my horse's feet look great and that going barefoot was the right choice -- even though she earns less from me. I am always there when she trims him and she's very collaborative and generous with her knowledge. Not every farrier I've worked with has been like that, though.
                                    And you see, there's the rub. Although I like my farrier, I am not sure it's about what's best for my horse - or what's best for his income! Esp now when I have seen real improvement in my gelding's hooves . . . I guess we'll see when we have a talk.

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                                    • #38
                                      IME some farriers are more interested in discussing the process with horse owners than others.

                                      Mine is very tolerant of all my questions. And I ask a lot. But together we have made changes that have helped my horse.
                                      Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
                                      EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

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                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by Alter1234 View Post
                                        And you see, there's the rub. Although I like my farrier, I am not sure it's about what's best for my horse - or what's best for his income! Esp now when I have seen real improvement in my gelding's hooves . . . I guess we'll see when we have a talk.
                                        Alter I am having the same problem in reverse! I think my horse needs shoes and my farrier is not willing to listen to me. He tells me he is fine, don't worry. Now my horse has abscess due a a fungus that he is sensitive to. It is hard when the farrier does not listen to you. Iam switching farriers because my horses problem could have been prevented by a different trim or shoes. Your quote about your farriers incomeor your horses interest is funny because my husband and I were just saying the other night, we did not think ours had our horses best interest in mind but his time (he wants me to pull all our horses shoes because, he could stretch the time he comes in between trims)
                                        Do what is best for your horse

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                                        • #40
                                          Just wanted to share my experiences with the shod to barefoot to shod to barefoot transitions.

                                          My 27 year old mare was front shod as a 3 year old, and had her shoes pulled at age 9 when she went to live on a big christmas tree farm as a family trail horse. No issue on the transition for her. She came back to me at age 19, and was barefoot until the lesson kids wanted to do cross rails with her, so she got front shoes with pads (due to a diagnosis of moderate navicular bone changes. Stayed sound until a pulled hamstring ended her lesson horse career and the shoes were pulled. She was foot sore for about two weeks (not surprising at age 21) and the ground was hard with rocks and ice chunks. Moved to FL with lovely sandy soil, grass and no rocks. She is still pasture sound at age 27 (at least foot sound, we won't talk about her arthritic hocks, knees and shoulder).

                                          Gelding was shod from age 2 - special trims and shoeing at age 14 due to navicular diagnosis. The very trusted farrier said that this particular horse would probably never be a barefoot candidate due to his hock and navicular issues. Well, two years ago the FL farrier asked me one day, what are you doing with this horse (he was 20 years old). I said, not much, some hacking around, short trail rides in the neighborhood, etc. He said, let's pull his shoes and see how he does. That was 2 years ago, and he is fine, rarely does he have a foot sore day unless he gets a pebble stuck in the clefts of his frog.

                                          6 year old mare has never had a shoe on a day in her life, and she is fine.

                                          Long story short, give the farrier a chance to explain his reasoning, and give the barefoot a try, you can always put shoes back on if it doesn't work out.
                                          There are friends and faces that may be forgotten, but there are horses that never will be. - Andy Adams

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