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Pedigree Analysis Please!

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    Pedigree Analysis Please!

    Hey! I'm new to CotH- I hope this is an okay forum to ask this question. I am maybe toying with the idea of offering to buy this horse. I BELIEVE she's a hunter type- she's big (16.1hh) and her sire was an American warmblood (as well as an appendix QH) who competed as a hunter. However I have no idea about lines or important ancestors, and I've got no history in the QH or TB world. I would love it if anyone has any insight!

    #2
    Welcome to CotH! I’ll warn you that the “American Warmblood Registry” is kind of controversial here. Lots of people don’t think it’s very legitimate and that the title is misleading because you can register. Admittedly, I’m one of them. It’s not that they’re not nice horses. It’s just that the phrase kind of implies that the horse couldn’t be registered with any other registry. When I horses listed as an “American warmblood” I usually don’t click to find out more details because I automatically assume that really just means “backyardigan”.

    To me, I would call the sire what it is, an appendix qh that happens to be registered with the AWR, and not the other way around.

    And like I said, it doesn’t mean that the horse isn’t nice, it just should be priced like an appendix and not like a warmblood.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by SiennaRain View Post
      Hey! I'm new to CotH- I hope this is an okay forum to ask this question. I am maybe toying with the idea of offering to buy this horse. I BELIEVE she's a hunter type- she's big (16.1hh) and her sire was an American warmblood (as well as an appendix QH) who competed as a hunter. However I have no idea about lines or important ancestors, and I've got no history in the QH or TB world. I would love it if anyone has any insight!
      That is a mostly western pleasure type bred horse.
      If that is what you are aiming for, then yes, that is the kind of horse that trains and shows well western pleasure and probably with some size AQHA "English" classes.

      if you wanted a cutter or reiner, no, those lines would not be good for that.

      Comment


        #4
        Indian Artifacts and Artful Move were both AQHA hunter horses. I can say the first time I saw Artful Move trot, I literally choked on my drink. He would make you sigh in pleasure. This guy had the flattest knee, daisy cutter LONG stride. He could jump and he had a good mind as did Indian Artifacts. Where they Appendix, yes, would I kill to own one, yes.

        Lucky Zip on the bottom side was western pleasure bred, modern western pleasure, taller more elegant, with a brain, that could go more all around. More Foundation QH but good Foundation.

        This horse ought to move very flat kneed, have a fairly nice demeanor. She should kill it on the flat, give you a nice hunter round and he's bred to be flexible enough to handle several different disciplines . Will she event at the top level or do show jumping, maybe? If you are looking for a reiner then no.

        Comment

          Original Poster

          #5
          Originally posted by Equkelly View Post
          Welcome to CotH! I’ll warn you that the “American Warmblood Registry” is kind of controversial here. Lots of people don’t think it’s very legitimate and that the title is misleading because you can register. Admittedly, I’m one of them. It’s not that they’re not nice horses. It’s just that the phrase kind of implies that the horse couldn’t be registered with any other registry. When I horses listed as an “American warmblood” I usually don’t click to find out more details because I automatically assume that really just means “backyardigan”.

          To me, I would call the sire what it is, an appendix qh that happens to be registered with the AWR, and not the other way around.

          And like I said, it doesn’t mean that the horse isn’t nice, it just should be priced like an appendix and not like a warmblood.
          I actually don't "believe" in American Warmbloods either but that's what Indian Artifacts seems to have been advertised as so I was just trying to go by that!

          Comment

            Original Poster

            #6
            Originally posted by four2farm@gmail.com View Post
            Indian Artifacts and Artful Move were both AQHA hunter horses. I can say the first time I saw Artful Move trot, I literally choked on my drink. He would make you sigh in pleasure. This guy had the flattest knee, daisy cutter LONG stride. He could jump and he had a good mind as did Indian Artifacts. Where they Appendix, yes, would I kill to own one, yes.

            Lucky Zip on the bottom side was western pleasure bred, modern western pleasure, taller more elegant, with a brain, that could go more all around. More Foundation QH but good Foundation.

            This horse ought to move very flat kneed, have a fairly nice demeanor. She should kill it on the flat, give you a nice hunter round and he's bred to be flexible enough to handle several different disciplines . Will she event at the top level or do show jumping, maybe? If you are looking for a reiner then no.
            That's great! She's 17 and been used as a broodmare for MANY years, though she was allegedly broke to ride before becoming a broodmare (which I believe, based on her lunging skills alone!) I'm not 100% sure if she's sound to ride (has had a few injuries in the hind end and a hind leg injury I don't know the history of), so that would be a deal breaker.

            I grew up an English rider so I was looking at her being a little hunter ​​​​​​. It's nice to see the pedigree back up that hope!

            Comment


              #7
              She has some very nice TB's in her background -- but you probably already know that. Papers/registries matter less than the horse itself. Enjoy her!

              Comment


                #8
                [QUOTE=SiennaRain;n10741857]

                That's great! She's 17 and been used as a broodmare for MANY years, though she was allegedly broke to ride before becoming a broodmare (which I believe, based on her lunging skills alone!) I'm not 100% sure if she's sound to ride (has had a few injuries in the hind end and a hind leg injury I don't know the history of), so that would be a deal breaker.

                I grew up an English rider so I was looking at her being a little hunter ​​​​​​. It's nice to see the pedigree back up that hope![/QUOTE

                I would bet she was a broodmare, those are really nice (IMHO) AQHA lines. Some people claim that these horses had bad minds,Since this mare is 17 her mind is easy to see at this point. I would hope this mare has the zippo bred head and all of my Zippos' were super easy, really natural to handle. The one thing I know was the Indian Artifacts/Artful Move babies did NOT do well in the snatch and grab world. It made them angry and you ended up with a bad tempered handful. I also know they personality tended to go a bit to the dam side on personality. If you bring this mare back into work, we had a ton of success with the Artful Move babies using a nice dressage foundation and a lot of lateral work to get them to soften on the bit, but the head carriage and lovely movement was their birthright.

                DeGraff (Indian Artifacts owner) made a big deal to get accepted into AWS. This was a really smart cross marketing tactic to make AQHA hunter breds more appealing to the world at large. So many people think a QH is a short fat little pleasure horse. Not so, I rode at a barn of horses that had three names: Barn Name, AQHA name and a USHJA name, they all were 16.2 HH or better, Bay, Black or Gray. The went to the A rated shows and won and the AQHA shows and won. They were almost all Appendix bred, many from the AQHA racetracks. That was the difference in the 90's, top AQHA racing breeders bred for racing and resale. That's why there was no need to have a nationwide QH racehorse adoption program. There are still some that need placement but not nearly like the OTTB market. Those horses came and ruled the AQHA Hunter Division and were the beginning of specialization in the AQHA. In the barn I came from you were not allowed to go to Congress without AQHA qualification and three USHJA "A" rated wins. Artful Move was bred to skip the racing step, he was lovely, there are videos of both he and Indian Artifacts. Get past the head carriage and watch the movement. Look up Artful Move Stallion on you tube, he is there under Leading Hunter Under Saddle Sire . Enjoy and she how much the mare looks like her grandsire. I hope she is sound!

                Comment

                  Original Poster

                  #9
                  Thanks for the insight four2farm!! Her biggest vice is food aggression and she runs pretty high anxiety. I would hope I could fix the food aggression with free access to hay and consistent work and attention (as well as checking for ulcers- I'm not convinced she's pain free!). She's very sweet to handle and work, if a bit spooky sometimes. I think this mare just would really benefit from consistent attention and work and would really blossom into a great little partner. I also hope she is sound!

                  I appreciate all the tips!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Have you ever started a horse from scratch, or do you have a pro trainer to help you? Re-starting an aged horse who has not had to work in a decade or more is not a simple training task. Are you prepared to wait 1-2 years before you have a "partner" rather than a "training project"?

                    Comment

                      Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by HungarianHippo View Post
                      Have you ever started a horse from scratch, or do you have a pro trainer to help you? Re-starting an aged horse who has not had to work in a decade or more is not a simple training task. Are you prepared to wait 1-2 years before you have a "partner" rather than a "training project"?
                      I have started a horse from scratch as well as restarted many longtime out of work horses. Yes I plan on taking my time with her to do it right and I'm confident I'll be just fine with her if this works out

                      Comment


                        #12
                        If you have not yet bought her, I would think hard about whether this was what I wanted. She is an older mare that has been out of work for a long time. It will take time and skill to retrain her assuming she stays sound. By this point you might run into age related problems.
                        If I was looking for a project, I would look for a younger one.

                        Comment

                          Original Poster

                          #13
                          MsM, thanks for your advice. I am not actively looking for a project, my interest in her stems more from the fact that she is currently unwanted by anyone in a position to own her and I've known her for over a year and really like her.

                          Comment

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