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To bite my tongue or not...?

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    #81
    I feel strongly about animal issues and am an animal advocate and activist. The person you describe is truly ignorant and needs firm guidance for the sake of her horse and the issues stalling brings without turnout or regular exercise or any engagement. It is unnatural and unfair to this horse - he is being punished because of someone's ignorance and it is an abusive situation. Ignorance is NOT an excuse IMO - if you become involved with any animal it is YOUR responsibility to learn how to care for them and their needs. They are voiceless victims in these circumstances and it is a responsibility of anyone who sees it to speak up and do all they can to change the animal's life for the better. I have no problem intervening on the animal's behalf and if she is such a good friend, that shouldn't be a problem. I would have no problem speaking frankly to a good friend (or anyone) regarding their care or lack of care for an animal, which has feelings but lacks a voice. I think society has become overly sensitive and too politically correct, especially in these instances -- and I really don't care what anyone else thinks of this opinion. I am more interested in the animals than the people and choose to act on their behalf regardless. Animal lives matter!

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      Original Poster

      #82
      Originally posted by TKR View Post
      I feel strongly about animal issues and am an animal advocate and activist. The person you describe is truly ignorant and needs firm guidance for the sake of her horse and the issues stalling brings without turnout or regular exercise or any engagement. It is unnatural and unfair to this horse - he is being punished because of someone's ignorance and it is an abusive situation. Ignorance is NOT an excuse IMO - if you become involved with any animal it is YOUR responsibility to learn how to care for them and their needs. They are voiceless victims in these circumstances and it is a responsibility of anyone who sees it to speak up and do all they can to change the animal's life for the better. I have no problem intervening on the animal's behalf and if she is such a good friend, that shouldn't be a problem. I would have no problem speaking frankly to a good friend (or anyone) regarding their care or lack of care for an animal, which has feelings but lacks a voice. I think society has become overly sensitive and too politically correct, especially in these instances -- and I really don't care what anyone else thinks of this opinion. I am more interested in the animals than the people and choose to act on their behalf regardless. Animal lives matter!
      I don’t disagree with you. But I really think the bigger issue is the professionals that run their places like this. My friend thinks this is ok because the trainers whose opinion she respects think it’s ok. I can relate because I remember when I started riding as a kid I NEVER questioned anything my trainer did because they had all the answers and everyone else was an idiot. (Turns out, not the case but I thought that way for a long time)

      The number one advice we give beginners on this forum is “hire a trainer” or “work with a trainer” on anything. And it’s not bad advice but I know of tons of trainers at least in my area that have zero business training horses or teaching people about their horses. I’m speaking from experience, breaking away from a bad trainer that taught you tons of bad habits and terrible horsemanship is a little like leaving a cult. It’s really hard to do.

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        #83
        Have you tried the arguement from authority approach? Assemble information from experts for WHY horses need exercise and that what she's doing is hurting her horse. I'm thinking specifically about research into how exercise helps bone remodeling and can make injury more likely. Same with how exercise improves hoof health. Also how the horse evolved to move over great distances.

        She seems willing to pay for stuff like chiro since it sounds like she wants the horse to want for nothing. Sounds like she cares but really needs to understand that she's hurting the horse. Would she be open to paying someone to exercise the horse when she can't ride?

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          #84
          Originally posted by Equkelly View Post

          I don’t disagree with you. But I really think the bigger issue is the professionals that run their places like this. My friend thinks this is ok because the trainers whose opinion she respects think it’s ok. I can relate because I remember when I started riding as a kid I NEVER questioned anything my trainer did because they had all the answers and everyone else was an idiot. (Turns out, not the case but I thought that way for a long time)

          The number one advice we give beginners on this forum is “hire a trainer” or “work with a trainer” on anything. And it’s not bad advice but I know of tons of trainers at least in my area that have zero business training horses or teaching people about their horses. I’m speaking from experience, breaking away from a bad trainer that taught you tons of bad habits and terrible horsemanship is a little like leaving a cult. It’s really hard to do.
          If we are to believe what you have posted in this thread, your friend is the problem, not every trainer in your entire area.

          It sounds like your friend does not take advice or subscribe to the program at any barn they have been at. How is it the trainer's fault that your friend is not listening?
          If it was just one trainer I would be willing to jump on the 'evil trainer' band wagon. But from what you have said this happens to your friend at every barn. That means it is your friend, not the evil trainers.

          Comment


            #85
            What an excellent description, "She has not put two and two together." Why is she stuck??? Is there a situation she is terrified that is going to happen to her horse if the horse is let out of the stall? Obviously she is taking some interest in the horse's care - except for exercise. Can you ask her what her ultimate concern is? Your tongue shouldn't be bleeding! Does she honestly acknowledge the horse is struggling and hence exploding? Gently probe and see what happens?

            I agree with the others, if you lay it out fully and clearly, and the owner is not going to consider what is happening and offer some of her thoughts on the subject, then you will most likely continue suffering in silence. I understand your reluctance to get too involved though.

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              #86
              I would ask her if she was willing to listen to my opinion and tell her that I was willing to drop the subject at any time.
              Then I would tell her that in my opinion, she should try a barn that offered a little bit more “natural” horse care and not worry so much about little cuts and scrapes or blanketing. I would tell her that the barns she was boarding at were ok for people that need an indoor to ride every single day, but for her schedule her horse would be better off turned out in fresh air and getting natural exercise. Talk to her about colic prevention and stocking up and how while stalls are not cruel in and of themselves, it isn’t healthy for a horse to be stuck in a stall for 23 or 24 horse a day without exercise. Perhaps it will help and perhaps not, but I think that there are benefits to having one really direct conversation.
              I will admit though that boarding is hard. I fully believe in turn out but it is hard to find a barn that is everything that you want. Boarding barns often have difficulty managing turn out. Sometimes if the horses are turned out all of the time, boarding barns just have too many horses to do pasture maintenance and rotation, and pretty soon you have erosion and problems with the fence and so on and so forth. It is always a compromise. It is true what someone said that not all trainers are great, but I do think that it would be helpful for your friend to find a new trainer before she falls off and gets hurt that can help her with her horse.
              I hope that makes sense.

              Comment

                Original Poster

                #87
                Originally posted by trubandloki View Post

                If we are to believe what you have posted in this thread, your friend is the problem, not every trainer in your entire area.

                It sounds like your friend does not take advice or subscribe to the program at any barn they have been at. How is it the trainer's fault that your friend is not listening?
                If it was just one trainer I would be willing to jump on the 'evil trainer' band wagon. But from what you have said this happens to your friend at every barn. That means it is your friend, not the evil trainers.
                I didn’t say every trainer in our area. She’s only ever been at 2 places with a trainer. And both of those places are in the same circle. One of them is where she bought this horse and where she learned everything she knows. That trainer never turned horses out which is why she thinks this is how horses are supposed to live.

                The trainers she’s at now is very similar. He’s Not telling her to exercise the horse or turn it out either. He’s just collecting the board check and he’s telling her to breed this mare too.

                The issue is not her refusing to listen t a trainers advice, she does, the two trainers she’s worked with are just crap.

                Comment


                  #88
                  Originally posted by Equkelly View Post

                  I didn’t say every trainer in our area. She’s only ever been at 2 places with a trainer. And both of those places are in the same circle.
                  Oh, I guess I got confused by the part in the original post that said she had been to 7 or 8 places in two years.

                  Originally posted by Equkelly View Post

                  But she is about to move to ANOTHER barn (she’s probably on barn 7 or 8 in 2 years) with again no turnout.

                  Comment

                    Original Poster

                    #89
                    Originally posted by trubandloki View Post

                    Oh, I guess I got confused by the part in the original post that said she had been to 7 or 8 places in two years.
                    She’s been to 7 or 8 places but most of them have been just boarding barns with no head trainer or anything like that. The two barns with head trainers are both in the same circle and work together. She seeks out places with conditions exactly like how those trainers do things. (Tiny paddock/ stall and zero turnout)

                    Comment


                      #90
                      I feel where you are coming from. I had friend who was taking lessons at a place that had no business doing lessons. Got dangerous but the best thing you can do is keep your mouth shut. The horse is healthy, stir-crazy maybe but healthy. If you were that worried maybe you could offer to go over and exercise her horse occasionally or maybe she suggest she finds someone to half lease him.

                      Comment


                        #91
                        Originally posted by Foxglove View Post
                        I asked her to have her Coggins on hand when we hauled to a park over state lines --her reply, "That's just a way for vets to make more money."
                        I am not sure if this is true in every state, but in NY it is illegal to transport a horse without a coggins. And also a permanent quarantine for the horse if they are EIA positive and it does not kill them. Most cases are actually euthanized.

                        I cannot believe a horse person would not take it seriously. LORD!

                        Comment


                          #92
                          Originally posted by trubandloki View Post
                          Your posts make it seem like you are assuming all kinds of things and have had very little actual conversation with this person you call a friend.

                          If this person is your friend - freaking talk to them.

                          You are allowed to not agree with your friends and still have conversations with them. You do not have to walk away and make them not a friend. But really, why assume things when you can just ask.

                          Suzy, is there a reason you do not want Dobbin to get any turn out? And then listen to the whole answer. Not what you think she is saying, the whole answer. Then you can help her move forward with either new knowledge or figuring out what is best for Dobbin (maybe Dobbin has a founder history and can not do grass turn out, or.... ). Maybe Dobbin needs a half leaser who can ride Dobbin during the week?
                          Couldn't agree more.

                          You can't expect a beginner to read between the lines and grasp some tactfully worded, terribly subtle message about proper care. She's a novice - spell it out.

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