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Buyer claims horse is lame

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    Buyer claims horse is lame

    I really don't like selling horses. I thought I had a buyer lined up. She rode my horse and loved him. Her daughter rode him and did well. I was honest about all his behavioral quirks and health history and really wasn't asking much for the price.

    She wanted to ride him again which I agreed too. Then i get a email stating she showed her poor quality cell phone video to her trainer and the trainer thinks he is lame. This horse has never been lame to my knowledge. Not even a stone bruise.

    It's probably for the best. I wasn't certain they were the correct home for him anyway.


    #2
    If you weren't sure it was a good fit anyway, it probably was for the best. I bet something else would have come up, maybe even after the horse was paid for and at her barn, which would be a real pain!

    I'm sorry.
    I loff my Quarter horse clique

    I kill threads dead!

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by 4horses View Post
      I really don't like selling horses. I thought I had a buyer lined up. She rode my horse and loved him. Her daughter rode him and did well. I was honest about all his behavioral quirks and health history and really wasn't asking much for the price.

      She wanted to ride him again which I agreed too. Then i get a email stating she showed her poor quality cell phone video to her trainer and the trainer thinks he is lame. This horse has never been lame to my knowledge. Not even a stone bruise.

      It's probably for the best. I wasn't certain they were the correct home for him anyway.

      Since you didn't communicate with the trainer you have no idea if the trainer said this. Also no idea what the trainer might have seen. My trainer had a good eye for horses going short behind which in shorthand is "lame" but isn't really to the average recreational rider. And can be caused by being ridden under tempo by a child.

      But buyer could have made this up to get out of the sale.

      Just chalk it up to experience. It will happen.

      Comment


        #4
        It's also possible that the trainer said you horse was lame because the trainer had an ulterior motive (perhaps wanted to sell them a horse directly). In any case, you're almost certainly better off without that buyer.

        Comment


          #5
          Had the same thing happen to me with a horse I sold earlier this year. I wouldn't worry too much about it. Who knows what the trainer thought she saw or if it was just an excuse to back out of the sale. Good luck with selling your horse!

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by paw View Post
            It's also possible that the trainer said you horse was lame because the trainer had an ulterior motive (perhaps wanted to sell them a horse directly). In any case, you're almost certainly better off without that buyer.
            Agreed. When I was shopping last, my trainer managed to find something wrong with everything that didn't fit her personal type.

            Comment


              #7
              I agree who knows what the real story was with these people - they may have never had any intention of buying the horse or any horse for that matter. the good thing is your feeling, when we feel like that we are usually happier with the outcome!!
              "All life is precious"
              Sophie Scholl

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by paw View Post
                It's also possible that the trainer said you horse was lame because the trainer had an ulterior motive (perhaps wanted to sell them a horse directly). In any case, you're almost certainly better off without that buyer.
                Wouldn’t be the first time😉

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by 4horses View Post
                  I really don't like selling horses. I thought I had a buyer lined up. She rode my horse and loved him. Her daughter rode him and did well. I was honest about all his behavioral quirks and health history and really wasn't asking much for the price.

                  She wanted to ride him again which I agreed too. Then i get a email stating she showed her poor quality cell phone video to her trainer and the trainer thinks he is lame. This horse has never been lame to my knowledge. Not even a stone bruise.

                  It's probably for the best. I wasn't certain they were the correct home for him anyway.

                  Sounds like it just wasn't meant to be.

                  However....I, personally, would be asking a trusted friend or trainer who doesn't see the horse regularly to take a look at a video clip of said horse under saddle and ask them for their honest opinion. Sometimes a fresh set of eyes will spot something that we, as the horse owner, don't see that might be worth investigating.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by 4horses View Post
                    I was honest about all his behavioral quirks and health history and really wasn't asking much for the price.

                    This horse has never been lame to my knowledge. Not even a stone bruise.
                    I haven’t seen your horse and I don’t know you so whatever I say may or may not apply to your situation.

                    I’ve been shopping around quite a bit and seen lots of sellers not realizing their horse were lame and that their horse’s quirks were mostly pain reactions.

                    It happens.

                    If you are confident your horse is sound and sane, good - but if you have any doubt, maybe a vet check on your part could be done. It could actually be a good thing for the prospect buyers to see.
                    Last edited by alibi_18; Jul. 29, 2020, 06:29 PM.
                    ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                    Originally posted by LauraKY
                    I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by alibi_18 View Post

                      I haven’t seen your horse and I don’t know you so whatever I say may or may not apply to your situation.

                      I’ve been shopping around quite a bit and seen lots of sellers not realizing their horse were lame and that their horse’s quirks were mostly pain reactions.

                      It happens.

                      If you are confident your horse is sound and sane, good - but if you have any doubt, maybe a vet check on your part could be done. It could actually be a good thing for the prospect buyers to see.
                      Waste of money. I would be very suspicious of any seller with a PPE by her vet. Vets can be just as dishonest as sellers.

                      Everyone lies when they're selling a horse. Those sellers you encountered knew their horses were lame, they were just hoping a buyer would believe that it was just the "horse's quirks". I've done more than my share of horse shopping and can't believe some of the b.s. people gave me.

                      OP: just move on to the next buyer. If there is a problem that you're unaware of it'll show up in the PPE. Otherwise you're fine, it just wasn't the right buyer.

                      In memory of Apache, who loved to play. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjZAqeg7HyE

                      Comment


                        #12
                        That is so true about dishonest sellers. My husband, who is pretty much a neophyte, doesn't know what he thinks he knows bought a rocky mountain gaited horse from a breeder. The seller said she didn't ride her that much because she "didn't get along with her." DH neglected to have a PPE done and bought her. Two weeks later with horse at home, she comes up with intermittent lameness. I told him he should return her to the seller. Of course he didn't because what do I know. He took horse to a local vet who immediately said it was the stifles, this was without even examining the horse, so he proceeds to inject the hocks with legend (cha-ching). Horse is still lame. Finally took her to a vet that actually looked at the horse and said she had advanced ring bone. Did x-rays and there it was. Caused by a trauma incident at some point and was halfway around the pastern. Seller saw a mark and a chance to unload a lame horse so filled it full of long acting pain killers and down the road she went. Nice horse too. DH ended up having to put her down.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Dishonest sellers...sellers not knowing their horse is lame...seems to me both apply to buyers as well. Buyers lie and misrepresent. I have had a variation of the " this horse is lame" presented to me: followed immediately by an insultingly lowball offer. People will try to game either end of the deal in the name of a few dollars. The OP dodged a bullet, imo.
                          No matter where you go, there you are

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by 16 Hands View Post
                            Seller saw a mark and a chance to unload a lame horse so filled it full of long acting pain killers and down the road she went. Nice horse too. DH ended up having to put her down.
                            This. My show days are behind me and now I just trail ride so when I'm horse shopping I'm looking for a quiet, been-there-done-that horse, so I often looked at horses listed as good for beginners (even though I'm not one). I couldn't understand for a long time why the beginner horses has so many problems until I figured out that the person selling the horse is hoping a true beginner will show up, someone who will believe what the seller says, not have a trainer along and not do a PPE.

                            Sorry about your husband's horse. I hope he has a nice one now.
                            In memory of Apache, who loved to play. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjZAqeg7HyE

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Malda View Post
                              Everyone lies when they're selling a horse.
                              Okay, just gotta stop here. No, the above is not true. I know at least a few perfectly honest, smart, nice, experienced trainers and sellers. I bought my first horse from people I didn't know, and horse was exactly as described. (The second horse does have an undisclosed injury that shows up when he's out of shape, but I think the owners were clueless vs. dishonest. He cost so little, though, that it's not really relevant.) Are many sellers dishonest, or clueless? Maybe. But that fact should make the buyer more curious, more thorough, and more clear in her communication of what she expects -- ie, a better horsewoman. It is on the buyer to do her due diligence.

                              And when we as the buyer blow it and buy the lame horse with the spectacularly beautiful head and irresistible personality and heart the size of the sun, moon, and stars put together? Well. I have no comment on that. Nope, nope, nothing to say there.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                It took me longer than I care to admit to finally be able to see hind end lameness in a horse. It is completely possible the horse is lame even if it isn't head bobbing obvious (not saying this is actually the case). It could also be true that the buyer is telling a story to try and get a break on purchase price.

                                I've experienced too many beginner owners that just don't know what a lame horse looks like or feels like.

                                I hope your horse finds his person.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by SharonA View Post

                                  Okay, just gotta stop here. No, the above is not true. I know at least a few perfectly honest, smart, nice, experienced trainers and sellers. I bought my first horse from people I didn't know, and horse was exactly as described. (The second horse does have an undisclosed injury that shows up when he's out of shape, but I think the owners were clueless vs. dishonest. He cost so little, though, that it's not really relevant.) Are many sellers dishonest, or clueless? Maybe. But that fact should make the buyer more curious, more thorough, and more clear in her communication of what she expects -- ie, a better horsewoman. It is on the buyer to do her due diligence.

                                  And when we as the buyer blow it and buy the lame horse with the spectacularly beautiful head and irresistible personality and heart the size of the sun, moon, and stars put together? Well. I have no comment on that. Nope, nope, nothing to say there.
                                  Here we go with the "blame the buyer" attitude. If you bought a horse that was as the seller described, then you were lucky. That's all.

                                  I've bought five horses in the last fifteen years and looked at over 300 in the process. Only a handful of sellers were honest. The others really, really lied.

                                  I bought an icelandic horse from the breeder. Trail rode the horse twice for an hour each time, first just me and owner, then I brought two experienced friends and we all tried him (switching during the trail ride). Horse did great. I asked my usual list of questions including "has this horse ever bucked, bolted or run away" and the breeder said never. I was allowed to bring him to my barn and use my vet for the PPE. He passed. Breeder said he was selling his personal riding horse because he (the breeder) was getting too old to ride. This guy must have been at least 80 so I believed him.

                                  A couple weeks after I bought him he bolted in the arena. Okay, he's new, maybe something spooked him. A couple of weeks later he bolted on the trail while I was riding with friends. Four weeks later he did it again in the arena and hit the fence.

                                  I called the breeder who then admitted that the horse had always had a bolting issue and was never his personal riding horse. In fact, it turned out the horse hadn't been ridden in nearly ten years because he wasn't safe to ride. The horse lived in a huge pasture which is probably why he was such a good trail horse (he was really good on trails). The breeder knew the whole time that the horse wasn't safe to ride and lied about it. Long story short I ended up putting the horse down.

                                  So please explain to me what I did wrong as a buyer.
                                  In memory of Apache, who loved to play. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjZAqeg7HyE

                                  Comment

                                    Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    I did flexions on him. He is fine. I think the buyer was paranoid. I offered her a really good price on him because I was eager to move him along. Maybe she thought that was suspicious. I don't know.

                                    No, not everyone lies to sell a horse. At least not the people I have bought from.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      No one is blaming the buyer, Malda. I am genuinely sorry that you had this experience with a dishonest seller and ended up with a horse that needed to be put down. Know that you made a difference for all the others who might have been hurt by that horse, and made a difference for the horse, too, as we can all imagine how he would have ended up if you had not done the honorable thing. You did nothing wrong as a buyer. My point was just that not everyone selling a horse lies. As you note yourself, you have met a handful of honest sellers. I hope that other horses in your life, now or in the future, will be wonderful.
                                      Last edited by SharonA; Jul. 31, 2020, 09:15 AM.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        I think if we assume everyone involved is being honest here (I know, it's a big assumption in horse selling, but it does happen!) we can consider that lameness isn't always a black and white thing. More often it's like a continuum with lots of grey. So then if a horse falls anywhere in the middle, a whole lot of other factors come into play: the eye of the observer, their tolerance for particular issues (many people become able to easily spot -- and then run the other way from -- issues they have dealt with before), the history and intended use of the horse...etc, etc. So in other words, one person's "lame" may be another person's "stiff" and yet another person's "totally sound"..... without any one of those people necessarily lying.

                                        I like Backstage's suggestion of having someone you trust watch the horse (in person or video) -- flexions alone don't highlight every type of problem. Of course, you'll be getting your friend's particular eye and biases, but at least you remove the question of sale from the equation. And it costs you nothing to ask. (As in, no, I probably wouldn't call the vet out solely based on a trainer's second hand video review. Maybe if they had been out in person I'd think harder about it.)

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