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Hidden video camera by boarder

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    #41
    Originally posted by Texarkana View Post
    PSA to all boarders reading this: installing hidden cameras is NOT an appropriate solution to your problems.

    I feel like that message keeps getting lost in this thread.

    Carry on.
    And it is NOT appropriate to feed treats to other people's horses.
    It is better to ride 5 minutes a day than it is to ride 35 minutes on a Sunday.

    Comment


      #42
      How do you HIDE a camera at a barn? When I think of a hidden camera I think of the nanny cam that goes inside the stuffed bear toy. And if it's hidden, how did you even find out about it?

      I know other people who have installed a remote camera in their horse's stall and it has been no big deal. Honestly, it's not a bad idea. If you're up in the middle of the night you can take a quick peek at your horse on your phone. Or I bet you can somehow set it to detect x amount of motion in y amount of time so if your horse is thrashing an alarm goes off. So if Buffy gets cast or is colicky an alarm goes off.

      I don't really think the camera is that big a deal. Not telling anyone is kinda shady, and certainly since the boarder in question is described as being out to get people that's concerning.

      I mean, if it was your average boarder, would you still be concerned about it being posted on social media?

      Comment


        #43
        IMHO it is absolutely unheard of that a boarder in a private barn would install a camera without complete prior permission and cooperation of the Barn Manager. In typical boarding barns, horses can change stalls and paddocks frequently at the decision of the manager. Boarders don't get to install permanent personal fixtures of any kind and typically don't even get a choice in buckets or hay nets.

        This is completely different from the Barn Manager installing official security cameras which typically focus on entrances and exits and parking lots, to provide evidence in case of theft or vandalism overnight.

        If a horse really needed a stall cam, like Mare Stare for a pregnant mare, that should be set up to not capture common areas like the aisle.

        It is very possible that the boarder in question is bluffing, and if the camera is very well "hidden" it may not exist.

        As far as things going up on social media, I could imagine some people doing that and others not. It really depends on the toxicity and perhaps youth and impulsiveness of the individual with the camera, whether they would think it useful or amusing to post unflattering candid shots of other boarders and barn workers scratching their butts or knocking over wheel barrows or "borrowing" fly spray.

        Comment


          #44
          Just my take on the thread - I do not see the OP as wanting to cause drama at all. I see the OP as asking for input on a topic and how to deal with it appropriately. The OP then took the advice to just talk to the barn owner (and to not send an email) and the barn owner is dealing with the problem.

          If I was a barn owner and I found out later on that an employee knew that a boarder had installed a camera that neither the employee that knew or the boarder told me about, I would be really freaking mad. The OP owes it to the barn owner to tell them about this camera (which they did).

          For the question of 'how can they hide a camera?' - If you are not looking for something it is pretty darn easy to not see it. A good game camera attached to a fence post is easy to see once you know it is there but also easy to miss if you are not looking for it. (Says me who has one on a fence post at my house and sometimes I forget it is there.)

          My general assumption in life now days is that no matter where I am, there is a camera watching what I am doing. But that does not make it OK for a boarder to install a camera with out telling the barn owner.

          Comment


            #45
            Originally posted by JustTheTicket View Post

            Sure, but you can’t just take over what happens in property that isn’t yours. So, it’s still on your boss to get rid of the camera or press charges or whatever the case may be. You can just quit. ( you probably should just quit. You’re desperate to start drama and let’s be real, barn jobs aren’t lucrative. I’ve done it. I know.) Let the people in charge do their jobs, and if they don’t, get out of there! I have no idea why you’d want to stick around a job that seems to have such devious people anyway.
            You can’t mess around with someone else’s business, because again, you aren’t privy to all the conversations that happen between the barn owner/manager/ other clients. If all you’re doing is your job, you have nothing to worry about.
            Without knowing all sides of the story, it really sounds like you’re going to meddle to the point that you drive out boarders and you might find yourself getting sued by your bosses for loss of revenue. Let them handle their own business, please.
            Seriously? Part of being a good employee is communicating things/issues that may be of concern or affect you(employee) and/or which may be of concern or affect other employees, clients etc. the OP came here looking for recommendations - she talked to her employer and all is good with the world. She handled it like a good employee should.

            Comment


              #46
              Originally posted by MGLpony View Post
              I did a Google search for surveillance laws as well as "ag-gag" laws but couldn't find something applicable to this situation. Had a brief chat with the boss and he agrees with the potential risks to a hidden video camera. Sometimes it just takes discussing a situation to broaden the view point. Now this boarder could still go ahead but at least she will have been told "No".

              Sorry folks, but meddling and drama don't apply to someone asking what protections they have in their place of employment. Cherry-picked video clips of myself and others can easily be used as weapons. Most boarders I know, would not be keen on a hidden video camera installed by a disgruntled boarder. An employer or property owner - fine.
              Interesting thread. I can't believe people are accusing you of being dramatic. I would not be OK with another boarder putting a hidden camera in the stall to a) watch for someone feeding her horse and/or b) watch me work. I 100% agree with you about the dangers of putting clips on social media by someone who put a camera up to "catch someone doing something wrong at the barn". This could affect not only your barn's business but YOUR employment/employability. A horse could do something to threaten you and you can respond properly, but if the part of the clip where the horse threatens you is cut out and the video is called "mean employee threatens my horse" it can have an effect on the barn and you! Also, I wouldn't want someone watching me pick my nose or wiping my nose on my sleeve. These issues are magnified if the boarder is trying to "catch another boarder" feeding her horse without bringing the issue and the camera up to the barn owner first. She's TRYING to catch someone...what does she plan to do with the video if she does? Is she going to sue the person or call the police? It sounds like there is a bunch of drama going on at the barn and if I were the barn owner, I'd intervene to stop it.

              Call me crazy, I would not work for someone who has a video camera on me to watch me do my job.

              I think it is 100% appropriate that you brought the issue to the barn owner, and I hope he confronts the boarder. I suspect it is illegal, but in any event, he dictates what goes on at his barn/property. Drama-laden barns are no fun.
              Proud member of the Colbert Dressage Nation

              Comment


                #47
                Originally posted by JustTheTicket View Post

                Sure, but you can’t just take over what happens in property that isn’t yours. So, it’s still on your boss to get rid of the camera or press charges or whatever the case may be. You can just quit. ( you probably should just quit. You’re desperate to start drama and let’s be real, barn jobs aren’t lucrative. I’ve done it. I know.) Let the people in charge do their jobs, and if they don’t, get out of there! I have no idea why you’d want to stick around a job that seems to have such devious people anyway.
                You can’t mess around with someone else’s business, because again, you aren’t privy to all the conversations that happen between the barn owner/manager/ other clients. If all you’re doing is your job, you have nothing to worry about.
                Without knowing all sides of the story, it really sounds like you’re going to meddle to the point that you drive out boarders and you might find yourself getting sued by your bosses for loss of revenue. Let them handle their own business, please.
                Seriously??? She's an employee of the barn! She's doing what a good employee does!! Suggesting that she just quit because her job may be low paying is frankly rude. Everyone who has owned, worked in, or boarded in a barn knows there are problematic boarders and that most boarders come and go. Good employees are worth their weight in gold. In all honestly, I luckily have never known a barn owner who did not consider their employees and having their finger on "the pulse" of stuff going on in the barn and didn't want to hear about what they said. Do you view barn staff as the least important factors in the barn equation?
                Proud member of the Colbert Dressage Nation

                Comment


                  #48
                  I'm glad this matter has been appropriately and maturely dealt with between this employee and barn owner, because some of the responses on this thread have made it the one of the most disheartening I've ever seen on COTH.

                  Because dedicated employees that care about all of the barn's horses and clients, and care what happens to their employer's business are drama-stirrers? Wow. You're right, we should all just quit. Good luck getting someone to take care of your precious pony. Extra carrots will be the least of your worries if everybody quits because it's not lucrative (and on top of that, having to deal with asshats that think it's a-ok to ignore privacy laws). Wow.

                  Comment


                    #49
                    I haven't read the entire thread. (A few of us got locked out for several days.) Did anyone suggest the interim step where you make or buy a sign that says "Please don't feed my horse any treats." If you have a sense of humor you get the one that Fergus sells. Going straight to hidden cameras has an ulterior motive.

                    "With hardly any other living being can a human connect as closely over so many years as a rider can with her horse." Isabell Werth, Four Legs Move My Soul. 2019

                    Comment


                      #50
                      Surveillance cameras are a common thing in many barns I have been at. Trainers absolutely use them. So many of my neighbors have Ring type camera systems on their homes. I see them everywhere I go. Heck cameras are installed at most businesses and public areas. I just assume I am always being filmed. The Ring like versions are not a permanent addition and can be moved easily. I have learned that certain people at barns do not obey rules or signs and sometimes the only way to catch them is video evidence. I agree the boarder needs to ask permission first. Maybe she already has.

                      Comment


                        #51
                        I board my horse. I would like to have a camera in his stall in case of colic, etc. This isn't against a law, is it? Sorry if I'm hijacking. Where does one buy such cameras? I live five miles from the barn. What tech gear is needed? To mention: a few months I arrived at the barn to find my horse down in his stall with colic. If I had not gone to the barn that day - I don't even want to think about it. 100 horses are boarded at this barn. No night checks are done. Had I known this I would never have moved my horse to this barn. (yes, I'm looking at other places, but in the meantime....... thanks).

                        Comment


                          #52
                          I have to agree, once you get to that point that you're wanting a camera, it's time to leave. I'm bailing out of my crazy barn owner situation I've been dealing with for the past 8 months. It's definitely hard to find new situations sometimes (especially when you have as many as I do) so I've had to ride it out until now. I've wanted a camera (not without the BO knowledge though) because I cannot trust the BO to even notice if my horses are sick or injured. She just collects money and doesn't care about maintaining her property or the animals on it, not even her own. But even with as much as I loathe the barn owner because of her behavior and how she treats animals and her boarders, I would never put a secret camera up.

                          Comment


                            #53
                            Originally posted by Interstellar View Post
                            I have to agree, once you get to that point that you're wanting a camera, it's time to leave. I'm bailing out of my crazy barn owner situation I've been dealing with for the past 8 months. It's definitely hard to find new situations sometimes (especially when you have as many as I do) so I've had to ride it out until now. I've wanted a camera (not without the BO knowledge though) because I cannot trust the BO to even notice if my horses are sick or injured. She just collects money and doesn't care about maintaining her property or the animals on it, not even her own. But even with as much as I loathe the barn owner because of her behavior and how she treats animals and her boarders, I would never put a secret camera up.
                            Yes, secret cameras are not a substitute for adults having adult conversations about the proper care of horses. You pay for your horses to be in the BO's charge?
                            Good for you to get your horses out.

                            Comment


                              #54
                              Originally posted by grayarabs View Post
                              I board my horse. I would like to have a camera in his stall in case of colic, etc. This isn't against a law, is it? Sorry if I'm hijacking. Where does one buy such cameras? I live five miles from the barn. What tech gear is needed? To mention: a few months I arrived at the barn to find my horse down in his stall with colic. If I had not gone to the barn that day - I don't even want to think about it. 100 horses are boarded at this barn. No night checks are done. Had I known this I would never have moved my horse to this barn. (yes, I'm looking at other places, but in the meantime....... thanks).
                              1) research YOUR state's laws. States have widely different laws when it comes to surveillance and privacy expectations. Also look up federal wiretapping laws which covers audio recordings. I would not trust a bunch of anonymous strangers on a horse forum to tell you if something's against the law or not.
                              2) Get the property owner's permission.
                              3) You need a power outlet where you want to put the camera, and access to a strong WIFi signal. Does your barn have wifi?
                              4) google "wifi security camera with night vision" to find a camera
                              5) if you install one, put a "Security Camera in Use" sign on the stall so no one inadvertently uses that stall to pee or change clothes, or if they object to being on camera for whatever reason.


                              Comment


                                #55
                                Originally posted by Pally View Post
                                I'm glad this matter has been appropriately and maturely dealt with between this employee and barn owner, because some of the responses on this thread have made it the one of the most disheartening I've ever seen on COTH.

                                Because dedicated employees that care about all of the barn's horses and clients, and care what happens to their employer's business are drama-stirrers? Wow. You're right, we should all just quit. Good luck getting someone to take care of your precious pony. Extra carrots will be the least of your worries if everybody quits because it's not lucrative (and on top of that, having to deal with asshats that think it's a-ok to ignore privacy laws). Wow.
                                Quoted because the current software version will not allow me to give this a "Like".

                                Yes! Exactly!
                                No matter where you go, there you are

                                Comment


                                  #56
                                  Originally posted by grayarabs View Post
                                  I board my horse. I would like to have a camera in his stall in case of colic, etc. This isn't against a law, is it? Sorry if I'm hijacking. Where does one buy such cameras? I live five miles from the barn. What tech gear is needed? To mention: a few months I arrived at the barn to find my horse down in his stall with colic. If I had not gone to the barn that day - I don't even want to think about it. 100 horses are boarded at this barn. No night checks are done. Had I known this I would never have moved my horse to this barn. (yes, I'm looking at other places, but in the meantime....... thanks).
                                  I'd be mildly surprised if the BO granted you wifi access for this--partly because if they did, they'd need to allow everyone who wanted to do so, and that would eat a lot of bandwidth and possibly create an IT nightmare for them.
                                  "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                                  ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

                                  Comment


                                    #57
                                    ^^^^ Ditto. And the BO would likely have all the same concerns we've raised in this thread: who will be seeing this footage? Will it be used against me? Is this boarder trying to prove the barn was negligent if something happens to the horse? No matter how good your intentions are in placing the camera, we can't expect people to ignore the more negative possibilities and how it may affect them.

                                    Rather than spend hundreds on a camera, you might consider offering the BO to increase your board a little in exchange for doing a night check.

                                    Comment


                                      #58
                                      Originally posted by gottagrey View Post

                                      You are right. No one has the right to alter or afix anything to property that does not belong to them.
                                      Renters do.

                                      ... _. ._ .._. .._

                                      Comment


                                        #59
                                        Originally posted by PonyPenny View Post
                                        Surveillance cameras are a common thing in many barns I have been at. Trainers absolutely use them. So many of my neighbors have Ring type camera systems on their homes. I see them everywhere I go. Heck cameras are installed at most businesses and public areas. I just assume I am always being filmed. The Ring like versions are not a permanent addition and can be moved easily. I have learned that certain people at barns do not obey rules or signs and sometimes the only way to catch them is video evidence. I agree the boarder needs to ask permission first. Maybe she already has.
                                        The problem is it's not your house with your doorbell. It's a place of business that is open to the public (boarders) and doesn't belong to the person who was talking about filming. It actually doesn't matter if anyone is feeding the horse or not. If you install surveillance cameras in a business, you can't just put them up. In most states, you must have signage indicating they are being filmed, even if the cameras are very discreet. You also can't put them up if you're just a customer/client. Letting anyone not the business secretly film your clientele is asking for a lawsuit at best. (Putting a camera in your horse's stall at such an angle that you are ONLY filming the horse may or may not require signs, but it 100% requires the permission of the owner of the building. Ideally in writing. And frankly I'd put a sign up anyway.)

                                        Yeesh. I'm with Pally. It's a good thing the OP took the sane advice (no e-mail blast, talk to the BO/BM) rather than listened to "it's okay to illegally record people on someone else's property if you think they're feeding treats."

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                                        Comment


                                          #60
                                          Originally posted by danceronice View Post

                                          The problem is it's not your house with your doorbell. It's a place of business that is open to the public (boarders) and doesn't belong to the person who was talking about filming. It actually doesn't matter if anyone is feeding the horse or not. If you install surveillance cameras in a business, you can't just put them up. In most states, you must have signage indicating they are being filmed, even if the cameras are very discreet. You also can't put them up if you're just a customer/client. Letting anyone not the business secretly film your clientele is asking for a lawsuit at best. (Putting a camera in your horse's stall at such an angle that you are ONLY filming the horse may or may not require signs, but it 100% requires the permission of the owner of the building. Ideally in writing. And frankly I'd put a sign up anyway.)

                                          Yeesh. I'm with Pally. It's a good thing the OP took the sane advice (no e-mail blast, talk to the BO/BM) rather than listened to "it's okay to illegally record people on someone else's property if you think they're feeding treats."
                                          Different states have different laws, so do not assume you know what can or cannot be installed and whether signage is required. I also said it requires permission.

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