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Hidden video camera by boarder

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    Hidden video camera by boarder

    This is a little more complex than I can fully get into but how would you respond to the situation of a boarder placing a hidden video camera in her paddock without the consent of the barn manager / property owner? This boarder had a falling out with another, well, several other people and is "out to get" one of them for feeding her horses carrots. I'm asking because I'm an employee and am concerned that the boarder is the one controlling who/where/what is recorded and controls the use of that media. Anything could be posted on social media and we all know how things taken out of context can be manipulated. Based on previous incidences, this boarder has malicious intentions. Where are the protections for me and other boarders? (BTW, I have nothing to do with her horses but work in surrounding areas that would be captured on video.)

    #2
    If neither you nor any of the other boarders are messing with her horses I don't see what the problem is? It is perfectly reasonable to be upset that someone else is feeding your horses without your permission. Mention it to the barn owner/manager, and let them deal, or not deal with it, as they see fit. I don't really see why this would require any further action than that on your part.
    For the horse color genetics junky

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      #3
      Tell the barn owner or barn manager. Let them take care of it.

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        #4
        Not a lawyer but I doubt the boarder has the right to install surveillance cameras on someone else's property without permission (which you don't know--maybe she has permission). I'd lodge an objection with the BO and if it were me, I would email the boarders (on your personal email, not trying to "speak for the barn", to say that surveillance cameras are in use.

        Are these the kind of cameras that have SD cards (as opposed to wireless connection)? If yes, that SD card might go missing. Or some oil-based fly spray might happen to cloud the lens of the camera. Just sayin'

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          #5
          Why are people feeding carrots to her horses?

          As an employee, I sure do hope that you haven’t fed her horses carrots.

          As an employee, your only role is to report what you heard would happen and NOT discuss the situation with the other boarder.

          Do NOT stir the drama.
          Do NOT deal with a customer/boarder who’s not yours.
          Do NOT feed any horses stuff their owners don’t want you to feed them.

          I’ve had people feed apples to my mare secretly because they didn’t believe when I told them it was bad for her - I explained PSSM and all.
          The last time it happened, I had to have the vet over because she had a tying-up episode.
          I had the vet told the boarders (who happened to be there) and I added to his speech that the next time, someone else would have to pay the vet bill and please could they NOT hurt my mare on purpose?!??
          They stopped.
          ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

          Originally posted by LauraKY
          I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by HungarianHippo View Post
            Not a lawyer but I doubt the boarder has the right to install surveillance cameras on someone else's property without permission (which you don't know--maybe she has permission). I'd lodge an objection with the BO and if it were me, I would email the boarders (on your personal email, not trying to "speak for the barn", to say that surveillance cameras are in use.

            Are these the kind of cameras that have SD cards (as opposed to wireless connection)? If yes, that SD card might go missing. Or some oil-based fly spray might happen to cloud the lens of the camera. Just sayin'
            I would not email all the boarders about this unless you own the barn or are the barn manager. Let the people in charge know what’s going on, then let them handle it. You’re just going to stir the pot by doing a mass email like that and it’s going to blow up in your face, I promise. Just do your job and stay out of the drama. Don’t vandalize or steal parts from the camera either, because again, stirring the pot and you’ll end up in trouble.

            If your issue is that you don’t want to be filmed and then have the footage put on the internet, again, talk with your bosses. You can either make sure you never come near her horse, or quit your job if the camera doesn’t come down. But again, don’t email all the boarders. That’s a really bad idea.
            Last edited by JustTheTicket; Jul. 19, 2020, 10:01 PM.

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              #7
              I would be checking your privacy laws. You would be slapped with a large fine - and legal cost - in New Zealand if you did this. Especially without (assumed) permission. Person needs to grow up!
              Still Working_on_it - one day I will get it!

              Comment

                Original Poster

                #8
                No worries, I do not touch other horses without direction, nor feed treats to anyone so I am not the direct target in this. (When I had my own horse, I didn't even treat her but the dog sure loves Mrs. Pastures cookies!) I'm concerned on several levels, not just for me but others up and down the line.

                I was under the impression that if you, as a boarder, did not like something going on at your barn, that you were under obligation to move if the barn owner did not resolve it, not resort to hidden video cameras on someone else's property. Am I mistaken? Horses are livestock, not children.

                Will be revisiting this tomorrow with the powers that be and may need to suggest a contract addendum - something along the lines of "no hidden recording devices to be installed on premises". Seriously? Horse people sure do earn their reputation.

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                  Original Poster

                  #9
                  And no, I don't agree with feeding other boarders' horses anything, especially when the owner requested "No treats". I'm not arguing that at all. My question is in regard to a hidden video camera that is a catch-all.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Are you sure it is even a real camera?

                    Is it because the horse is prone to laminitis and the carrots are a problem...and the person feeding them is denying it? If it is obvious enough that you can see it, then it might just be a deterrent.

                    This could be the horse owner's way of meeting the BO's request for proof of the problem. There is no "obligation" about how to deal with issues at a barn.

                    I would talk to the BO, and let them deal with it. if they are fine with it, then your choice is to stay or go.
                    Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

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                      #11
                      This is above your pay grade. I think it would be wise to mention it to the BO/BM, provided it is true and not a crazy rumor. Maybe they really did give consent. If not, it is their responsibility to handle it how they see fit.

                      Not trying to jump to conclusions, but a barn where boarders are resorting to hidden cameras because of disputes with other boarders sounds like a toxic place. Good help is always in demand. It might be time to explore your other employment options. Life is too short.
                      Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by MGLpony View Post
                        I was under the impression that if you, as a boarder, did not like something going on at your barn, that you were under obligation to move if the barn owner did not resolve it, not resort to hidden video cameras on someone else's property. Am I mistaken? Horses are livestock, not children.
                        No.

                        Unless the BO kicks you out.

                        If you don’t like something, as a boarder you can decide to either stay (and deal with it) or leave.


                        Will be revisiting this tomorrow with the powers that be and may need to suggest a contract addendum - something along the lines of "no hidden recording devices to be installed on premises". Seriously? Horse people sure do earn their reputation.
                        This is, again, NOT your place to revisit the matter.

                        As a horse person, you sure seem to want to fuel the drama.

                        Originally posted by Texarkana View Post
                        Not trying to jump to conclusions, but a barn where boarders are resorting to hidden cameras because of disputes with other boarders sounds like a toxic place.
                        A barn where other boarders feed unauthorized food to other boarders’ horses does indeed sound like a toxic place.
                        ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                        Originally posted by LauraKY
                        I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I second talking to the owner. That way you can stay out of it all together.

                          That said, if I was the owner and a boarder took it upon themselves to put up surveillance on my property, that person can get out. If you trust the barn staff and fellow boarders that little that you need to put up surveillance cameras, that’s clearly not a good relationship for anybody.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I think as an employee, you do have the obligation to inform your employer and let them know your concerns, especially if your BO/BM is unaware. However, do try and avoid partaking in the drama, including messaging/fixating convos with other boarders, as hard as that may be at times. Installing cameras does seem a bit extreme, but it is possible there is some sort of justification for it, perhaps health issues and this owner is on her last nerve. It can be really frustrating as a horse owner when people do not respect boundaries and feed your horse anyways because they attribute the action as harmless, when actually it may cost the owner big time in vet bills and heartache.

                            Then again, you know the whole story here and perhaps this boarder does really have malicious intent. Whichever is fact, I would stay out of the stirring pot as much as possible and let the BO/BM handle everything else. In the meantime, I would stay clear of the area to which is being filmed.

                            Comment

                              Original Poster

                              #15
                              My apologies, I did not clearly state what I meant by "obligation" ... I was trying to avoid wordiness and failed miserably. As mentioned, if BO doesn't resolve the situation, then boarder stays and deals or boarder leaves. Boarder does not stay and try to force BO through threats of lawsuit or harassment of other boarders to achieve what she wishes. I would like to shrug it off as self-generated drama but sadly, the reality is a bit different. The history is not encouraging.

                              I do have hope that the issue will be resolved favorably. It was just a bit of a shock since I wasn't aware of any precipitating incidents. With a bit of sleuthing, crows are the apparent culprits this time around. No person was feeding the horse or dropping unsavory bits in the water trough. Sigh. Still, boss and I will have a quick discussion tomorrow so we're both clear on the video issue, potential risks, etc. And go from there.

                              After reading some of these replies however, I am surprised at the approval of a hidden camera controlled by a boarder. I would never have dreamed of doing such a thing. Something to ask about when I check out a new facility - do you allow indiscriminate nanny cams in your stable? Course, if it's hidden ... ! Yikes.

                              Thanks everyone. I sure got a wide variety of perspectives.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                No one on this thread believes or has suggested that it's ok to feed anyone else's horse. No one. I think we can skip responses along the lines of "well just don't feed the horse", or "my 1000 lb horse got laminitis from a 3oz carrot!!!11!" This isn't about that. It's about collecting footage of persons on private property without their knowledge/consent.

                                My suggestion of interfering with the camera was tongue-in-cheek. But I disagree that the OP is not allowed to let other boarders know. If it were me, and if doing so puts my job at risk, so be it-- it would confirm that's not the kind of place I'd ever work anyway.

                                MGLpony You might suggest to your barn owner that this camera places them at risk for an expensive lawsuit if this boarder posts embarrassing videos online. States have all different laws regarding consent for surveillance cameras. If your barn is not open to the public, then it's possible someone could argue that this is a private space with reasonable expectation of privacy. Surveillance cameras are generally understood to be there to prevent or detect CRIME. If the footage is posted online in order to embarrass someone, that's a very murky area legally (but not at all murky when it comes to being unethical). And if the camera this person installed includes audio recording, it's very possible it's in violation of federal wiretapping laws. Hope your BO knows what s/he is getting into.

                                I'm not against surveillance cams by an employer, who has specific mandate to safeguard her/his business, providing there's a "surveillance camera in use" sign, and the use of the footage would be to support termination and refer criminal complaints to police. I'm against a wingnut surveilling other clients of a private business, with no way to know how s/he will use the footage.

                                How would you all react if the person who installed the cameras was a guy who was possibly oogling the women at the barn? Wouldn't you let the women know they were being filmed?

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by MGLpony View Post
                                  After reading some of these replies however, I am surprised at the approval of a hidden camera controlled by a boarder. I would never have dreamed of doing such a thing. Something to ask about when I check out a new facility - do you allow indiscriminate nanny cams in your stable? Course, if it's hidden ... ! Yikes.

                                  Thanks everyone. I sure got a wide variety of perspectives.
                                  I agree with you that it’s messed up. Posts like these kind of tell you whose been on the barn staff side of things and whose just been a boarder their whole life. I’m a boarder now and I would never in a million years have the nerve to put up a camera. But I remember when I was working for my old barn when I was a teenager, one boarder accused me of not showing up to feed one morning or something stupid. Which was of course untrue but I remember the owner getting so mad at this boarder for even accusing me. I think they straight up told this woman that she could find a new barn if they didn’t trust the staff and after that she cut the crap.

                                  OP, if I were you, and your barn owner let that fly, I’d be looking for a new barn ASAP. Barn drama only gets bad when there’s an environment that allows it and if you’re letting boarders put up cameras to try to “catch” someone messing with the horse, there’s a serious issue somewhere.

                                  Comment

                                    Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Thank you hungarianhippo! You clearly articulated my concerns.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Surveillance cameras, as well as audio recordings, must be accompanied by a notice in public places or you are vulnerable to a lawsuit..

                                      Apparently people have the right to spy on the workers they employ in their own homes, however when non-employees such as boarders that pay for services are being surveilled the barn should notify them that cameras are in use. No one should ever put a camera on someone else's property without permission. Ask first. Do people really have no sense of boundaries regarding the property of others? Yikes.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by HungarianHippo View Post
                                        No one on this thread believes or has suggested that it's ok to feed anyone else's horse. No one. I think we can skip responses along the lines of "well just don't feed the horse", or "my 1000 lb horse got laminitis from a 3oz carrot!!!11!" This isn't about that. It's about collecting footage of persons on private property without their knowledge/consent.

                                        My suggestion of interfering with the camera was tongue-in-cheek. But I disagree that the OP is not allowed to let other boarders know. If it were me, and if doing so puts my job at risk, so be it-- it would confirm that's not the kind of place I'd ever work anyway.

                                        MGLpony You might suggest to your barn owner that this camera places them at risk for an expensive lawsuit if this boarder posts embarrassing videos online. States have all different laws regarding consent for surveillance cameras. If your barn is not open to the public, then it's possible someone could argue that this is a private space with reasonable expectation of privacy. Surveillance cameras are generally understood to be there to prevent or detect CRIME. If the footage is posted online in order to embarrass someone, that's a very murky area legally (but not at all murky when it comes to being unethical). And if the camera this person installed includes audio recording, it's very possible it's in violation of federal wiretapping laws. Hope your BO knows what s/he is getting into.

                                        I'm not against surveillance cams by an employer, who has specific mandate to safeguard her/his business, providing there's a "surveillance camera in use" sign, and the use of the footage would be to support termination and refer criminal complaints to police. I'm against a wingnut surveilling other clients of a private business, with no way to know how s/he will use the footage.

                                        How would you all react if the person who installed the cameras was a guy who was possibly oogling the women at the barn? Wouldn't you let the women know they were being filmed?
                                        Unless OP owns the barn or business, she should still 100% not send a mass email to people who are not her clients. The camera is aimed at the horse, not the bathroom, so it’s not really comparable to a pervy hidden camera. And, since OP doesn’t own the barn or business and likely isn’t privy to all conversations, the horse owner might have a legit reason or permission to have the camera. OP can voice her concerns with people in charge, and then she can stay out of it, unless starting drama is part of her job description. If things don’t change to her liking, I’m sure there are lots of other barn jobs out there that would be a better fit. She’ll probably have to find another job anyway when management finds out that her meddling chased out a bunch of their clients.
                                        Last edited by JustTheTicket; Jul. 20, 2020, 10:33 AM.

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