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Horse injured while out on lease with two months left... advice?

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    Original Poster

    #21
    Originally posted by betsyk View Post
    You could also ask your leasor if she would continue to look after him until you can find a place to move him. You don't have a lot of time if you need a stall for August 1. Split the cost for August if you can't find a place til Sept 1?
    She will, but at a very high cost to me.

    I'm now going through the stage of, "I could have prevented this," e.g. been more adamant that they be on top of his back issues, maybe if I had found out earlier he was interfering more behind than usual that he might have something else going on... I feel like I should have been more on top of it.
    Blog
    Translation
    fri [fri:] fritt fria (adj): Free
    skritt [skrit:] skritten (noun): Walk

    Comment


      #22
      I've been through something extremely similar. However, the lessees in my case were much cooler about it.

      The lessee is responsible for the horse until the end of the lease. Period. Hard stop. Doesn't matter whether or not they can ride him. That's not how leases work. He is their responsibility until the lease ends.

      This right here is why I always maintain the insurance in MY name and have the lessee reimburse me the premium. But that does not help you now.

      You said the horse has major medical coverage, right? You need to use it. My deductible is around $1K. Pay for the vet care if you have to (it should be lessee's responsibility, but if she's going to be a deadbeat, then you cover it). Gather up those receipts and have lessee send them to the insurance company like yesterday. My understanding with major medical policies is that any injury occurring in the term of the coverage will have a "grace period" of 90 days. So, even if the policy expires August 1, you can submit receipts until November 1 for reimbursement. If he's not looking sounder, then yes, it might be time for pasture rest.

      Please tell me that the lessee will forward you the reimbursement checks. She owes you that much.

      Comment


        #23
        Where is the horse right now? I know several good, affordable layup options in my area (NC). I've been through something similar and I know how you're feeling. If the horse is near me, I certainly wouldn't mind popping in to check on him from time to time. It's hard to have your beloved horse far away at a time like this. I can relate.

        Comment


          #24
          There are a lot of details missing here. Ultimately, I would sit down and think about what you really need from the person leasing the horse. Is it more about them paying the bills for another two months? Or is it that since you aren't around you need someone watching out for the horse or providing some kind of care?

          I think that while the lease states a one year term, I think that would be hard to enforce. Also, forcing someone to continue with the lease of an injured horse rarely works out well.

          Is it possible that there is a middle ground? Where you call these folks up and discuss the situation and come up with a mutually beneficial solution? For example, you could discuss how you arranged this specifically as a one year lease with a one year commitment because you are so far away for this time period and aren't around to coordinate a change in care/circumstances for the horse. But, obviously you understand the other party's desire to be able to ride and put their effort into something rideable. Is there a middle ground where you all could split responsibility and costs for the last 2 months?

          I understand your POV that it is frustrating that your horse was injured while it was in their care, but this doesn't sound like the result of something irresponsible. Unless you have evidence that the horse was overused or used irresponsibly, I don't think there is any point to placing blame. Neither should you blame yourself. Horses cannot talk, how would you have known that this was impending? Another injury or illness could have happened even if you had the horse on retirement board. Also, you admit that the horse has had some other health problems, and that the other party stuck with the horse through the EPM situation. Big picture: your horse isn't a monetarily valuable high dollar lease horse and the lease situation was a positive one for most of the term. Ultimately it is probably best to accept the horse back and move forward from there.

          Comment


            #25
            In two months you'll be facing the same problem. I'd just move him to the retirement situation now until you get back from Europe. He isn't going to be able to find a new lease while rehabbing this injury.

            Is the family farm a horse business? They probably want the stall. When my injured horse got sent back early, that was the reason. They knew I couldn't afford board on two horses (and I had my other horse there as a paying boarder) and by telling me I needed to take over expenses, it was basically kicking my horses out. I get it though, it was an expensive area and a non-income producing horse on the feed bill is taking the spot of a profitable client -- and I knew she had a few on the waiting list.

            The big thing for me is not to take this kind of stuff personally. Everyone has their reasons. I am still friends with the BO despite the problematic departure. It is hard enough to make a living in the horse world, and hard enough for riders to find a trainer and situation they like. The more you can take the emotion out of it, the better decision you are likely to make and the less likely you are to burn bridges.

            I wouldn't put the trainer in the middle, honestly. That's pretty awkward and I doubt your trainer 1. wants anything to do with it, and 2. she might hold it against you. again, the other client is the one bringing money in for her. When trainers take sides, it's often with the side of the active client. Just being realistic here.

            Comment


              #26
              As costly as it is I would move the horse to a retirement or rehab facility until such time as you move back to the states.

              I would not leave your horse with the person leasing or the trainer to ensure your horse gets the rehab it needs.

              Comment


                #27
                Originally posted by gertie06 View Post
                Where is the horse right now? I know several good, affordable layup options in my area (NC). I've been through something similar and I know how you're feeling. If the horse is near me, I certainly wouldn't mind popping in to check on him from time to time. It's hard to have your beloved horse far away at a time like this. I can relate.
                Unrelated, but I'd be interested in recommendations for this. I have a horse I may need to park in a field for a year or so.
                Originally posted by PeanutButterPony
                you can shackle your pony to a lawn chair at the show...so long as its in a conservative color.

                Comment


                  #28
                  Originally posted by soloudinhere View Post

                  Unrelated, but I'd be interested in recommendations for this. I have a horse I may need to park in a field for a year or so.
                  For some reason, I can't message you. Send me a PM if you like!

                  Comment


                    #29
                    If the trainer arranged this, that's who I'd be talking to. Yes, they should be keeping the horse (or at least paying all his expenses) through the end of the lease term. That said, only you know if fighting with them over that extra month is worth it, and if you trust the horse in their care for the time when they don't want him.

                    What area is he in? I have a horse an an excellent and reasonably priced retirement/rehab barn in NY, close to a good vet/surgical facility too. Owner is super about texting pics/videos and very on top of care. I'd be happy to check in on yours when I'm up there to see mine as well.

                    Comment


                      #30
                      Was there no clause in your lease contract saying the horse needs to be returned in "same condition" as given? Injuries happen...it's a risk you take on both sides. That type of clause is to prevent a situation like yours where they leave you high & dry with a horse that was injured in their care (preventable or otherwise).

                      I'm not saying that current rider should assume all care for this injury, as that's probably months and months of rehab. BUT with only 2 months left on your contract, and you out of the country, some of that rehab should be on them until you can find a suitable situation. Just my opinion.

                      Comment


                        #31
                        Originally posted by bear necessities View Post
                        Was there no clause in your lease contract saying the horse needs to be returned in "same condition" as given? Injuries happen...it's a risk you take on both sides. That type of clause is to prevent a situation like yours where they leave you high & dry with a horse that was injured in their care (preventable or otherwise).

                        I'm not saying that current rider should assume all care for this injury, as that's probably months and months of rehab. BUT with only 2 months left on your contract, and you out of the country, some of that rehab should be on them until you can find a suitable situation. Just my opinion.
                        That ^

                        The lease was understood they had full care of the horse because you would not be around.

                        Under those conditions they should fulfill the contract the last two months and take care of the horse.

                        Now, since they seem to not be reliable and ignoring the lease terms and know your absent situation is still the same, maybe just move on and try to find some way to take over.

                        Some have nicely offered to find a rehab place and help keep an eye on horse until you come back and take over in two months.
                        That would be a good solution to check out, or maybe your trainer will have some idea what to do.

                        Not sure I would want to try to make those wishy-washy leasers keep looking after the horse, when they don't want to, for the horse's sake, much less pay them for it, since you don't trust them anyway.

                        Comment


                          #32
                          I think she is obligated to keep him the two months. That gives you some time to figure out what to do. It’s inconsiderate on several levels for her to just try to give him back early especially with you being abroad and COVID19 constraining you’re ability to travel. It’s not like fulfilling her contractual obligation is doing you a favor. Keeping him an extra month would be a favor.

                          Comment


                            #33
                            Originally posted by EmilyM View Post
                            I think she is obligated to keep him the two months. That gives you some time to figure out what to do. It’s inconsiderate on several levels for her to just try to give him back early especially with you being abroad and COVID19 constraining you’re ability to travel. It’s not like fulfilling her contractual obligation is doing you a favor. Keeping him an extra month would be a favor.
                            I think leaser is willing to keep him the extra two months, if owner will pay $800 a month for boarding?

                            That is not in the contract, both sides need to read that very carefully, be sure what is in there before deciding anything else.

                            Comment

                              Original Poster

                              #34
                              Okay, good news - she's agreed to keep him until the end of the lease period.

                              Should reiterate again: his insurance is in my name. I paid the full premium in December and she sends me $ each month pro-rated for the cost of insurance premium, so I'm not worried about the claims or repayments. Right now I've given permission for her to be a loss payee for this specific suspensory injury claim, but I can rescind that at any point in time. My concern is that the underwriter will be hard to deal with from abroad once the claim shifts from her to me.

                              Thank you all for the advice and moral support. My only hope right now is that he won't need the surgery and can go back to the lower levels once I'm home, either with me or a pony clubber who needs a been there, done that horse who isn't intimidating.
                              Blog
                              Translation
                              fri [fri:] fritt fria (adj): Free
                              skritt [skrit:] skritten (noun): Walk

                              Comment


                                #35

                                Have you talked to vets about the recovery process? A high suspensory injury is no small thing. Six months or a year of pasture rest won't make him right as rain, especially as an older horse. Once he's sound, there's going to be a long period of conditioning. I'm going through this right now. Starts with hand walking, then tack walking, then a minute of trotting, then two minutes of trotting.....and this needs to happen 5 times a week in my case.

                                Not to mention the shock wave treatments, previcox, chiro, and ongoing ultrasounds. I'm five months into rehabbing my horse and still have probably two months until he can jump a crossrail. It's a lot of time and money. I'm not trying to bring you down, but this is the reality. My guy is 15. If he were 18 and had a neurological condition, I probably would have retired him.

                                I will say that if you're able/willing to tolerate all this rehab and conditioning, it is excellent bonding time.

                                Comment


                                  #36
                                  Glad that she is keeping him until the end of the lease.
                                  That gives you a little more time to figure out board for him.

                                  Comment


                                    #37
                                    Originally posted by FrittSkritt View Post
                                    Okay, good news - she's agreed to keep him until the end of the lease period.

                                    Should reiterate again: his insurance is in my name. I paid the full premium in December and she sends me $ each month pro-rated for the cost of insurance premium, so I'm not worried about the claims or repayments. Right now I've given permission for her to be a loss payee for this specific suspensory injury claim, but I can rescind that at any point in time. My concern is that the underwriter will be hard to deal with from abroad once the claim shifts from her to me.
                                    Great that you got the first piece worked out. Really great for you, for the horse and for all readers' faith in humanity.

                                    FWIW, I have found horse insurance claims adjusters a veritable delight to deal with in comparison with any other sector of the insurance industry anywhere, anytime. When I had to file claims (two, but first time using my insurance on the Horse Of Bad Decisions), I did all my stuff by phone and mail/e-mail with an accounting I made and photos of the receipts. I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the old-fashioned, person-to-person and timely service. Also, the fine print of a horse health-insurance policy is surprisingly simple and decipherable, IME.

                                    Best wishes for this getting sorted out as easily as possible.
                                    The armchair saddler
                                    Politically Pro-Cat

                                    Comment


                                      #38
                                      Originally posted by mvp View Post

                                      Great that you got the first piece worked out. Really great for you, for the horse and for all readers' faith in humanity.

                                      FWIW, I have found horse insurance claims adjusters a veritable delight to deal with in comparison with any other sector of the insurance industry anywhere, anytime. When I had to file claims (two, but first time using my insurance on the Horse Of Bad Decisions), I did all my stuff by phone and mail/e-mail with an accounting I made and photos of the receipts. I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the old-fashioned, person-to-person and timely service. Also, the fine print of a horse health-insurance policy is surprisingly simple and decipherable, IME.

                                      Best wishes for this getting sorted out as easily as possible.
                                      I found out the same the time we had to file a claim.
                                      I expected lots of hurdles, but the company accepted initial paperwork and the check was here before I was over being surprised.

                                      It makes sense, it wastes everyone's time to drag things out.
                                      Thanks, Rhulen agency our first one decades ago, and others we have used since.

                                      Comment


                                        #39
                                        Yup, I will also agree that getting the claims processed was absolutely a piece of cake! I wish human insurance were this easy to deal with.

                                        Comment


                                          #40
                                          Indeed. My claims adjuster is great. Once the vet returns the initial diagnosis form, I just forward copies of the bills to her email address with my claim number in the subject line. Occasionally she asks how Pookie is doing, or if he's due for a check-up soon, but it's always just a friendly email.

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