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    Last edited by Alx; Apr. 17, 2020, 08:49 PM.

    #2
    Don't flame, but reference your contract and the duties of the farm to keep the foal safe and you informed.

    So, review your contract. Note your relative duties. And ask the farm to fulfill theirs. If they don't have any duties then you are SOL. You can ask that they release the photographer so she may send you photos. You may have to pay for them.

    You can also visit. That may be some short period away due to public health concerns but you have a right to ensure the value of your property.

    Unless you have reasonable suspicion of some sort of wrongdoing I'd keep your language very neutral. If you don't get any satisfaction then I'd talk to your lawyer and see what duties are imposed by law.

    Good luck in our project.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raa, Uma Paixo

    Comment


      #3
      It might be that they are short staffed due to the current state of affairs and it is taking all their time and energy just caring for the horses they have. Have you called and talked to someone on the phone? Or just texts and emails?

      Nothing like talking in person to get the answers you need.

      If they are a reputable breeder with a good reputation I wouldn't be too worried. I know it is always hard for the person who is on the other end of things when we are wanting info. Be kind, be reasonable, but persistent.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Alx View Post
        I bought a foal sight unseen and I’m unhappy that I have had to beg for photos, videos, and updates. Is this a normal business practice when you buy a foal? I expected to get at least bi-weekly or monthly photos or updates. Am I expecting to much? There was a tragic accident on the farm, a devolper cut a farm fence and one of the stallions escaped and ended up on the train tracks and thus was killed by a train. I expected the barn/farm manager to contact me letting me know that my investment was safe and sound and that fail safes were implemented to keep all of the horses safe from this ever happening again. I had to reach out to them after 24hrs asking if my foal was safe from being a potential new victim. I feel like that is bad bad business. This foal wasn’t cheap and as a business you would think keeping customers satisfied would be one of their top ten priorities so that their customers turn into repeat customers...not to mention the desire to keep their reputation in high standings from good reviews?

        If you don’t let people know your expectations you can’t be angry when your expectations are not met, but I feel like this shouldn’t apply to businesses, because a good business should want to go above and beyond...? Can anyone share their experience buying a foal and how that business treated you as a client? I’m ready to send a scathing message to the farm manager but maybe I’m just out of touch with reality regarding how farms sell their foals? I would make an appointment to see my foal but shes over 12hrs away.

        The farm also has a photographer and I reached out to her to buy all of my foals pictures, the entire album. She is at the farm monthly so she has taken recent updated pictures of my foal. However she let me know that she doesn’t speak to the farms clients and that she doesn’t have permission to share photos of MY FOAL with me without the barn managers approval and that she isn’t going to request permission. Needless to say I’m furious!! Need some advice and guidance before I send the barn manager a flaming email.
        Oh, my.

        1. How long is your business relationship with these people scheduled to last?

        2. Do you want to be happy, right, or out of the business relationship?

        The answers to those questions will inform my answer to you about what to write that will be productive. I would not write a message that sounds anything like this post. If you wrote that to me as the farm owner, I would know that I was not good enough at business to have your business, as you know things should go. I'd try to help you end your business relationship with me because that seems to be what you want.
        The armchair saddler
        Politically Pro-Cat

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by mvp View Post

          Oh, my.

          1. How long is your business relationship with these people scheduled to last?

          2. Do you want to be happy, right, or out of the business relationship?

          The answers to those questions will inform my answer to you about what to write that will be productive. I would not write a message that sounds anything like this post. If you wrote that to me as the farm owner, I would know that I was not good enough at business to have your business, as you know things should go. I'd try to help you end your business relationship with me because that seems to be what you want.
          This is an excellent post that I want to copy and paste to use in the future as it is so relevant in so many circumstances.

          While venting your spleen when you're frustrated is understandable, frustration should never dictate the direction of communication. Once you ascertain what precisely you desire, you can move forward in a productive (professional) way to meet those ends - preferably without burning bridges.

          For what it's worth, miscommunication often seems to be the biggest factor in uneasy client/provider relationships. This is no different. If a purchaser [assumes] one thing but never verbalizes this early on, then resentment can really boil over when the [seller] continues with what, for them, is business-as-normal. Different breeders/barns have different business models and the onus is typically on the buyer to make sure they're a compatible fit (is the program breeding what you want is an obvious one - yes in this case, as you purchased, but also is the reputation of the business one you want to engage in, and then make sure you do due diligence with your contract and then bring up any questions you may have at that point to ensure all of your desires or confusions are addressed).

          Comment


            #6
            How many months until you take delivery of the foal?

            For the photographer: those photos were commissioned by and therefore are the property of the barn. The photog is not at liberty to sell them to someone else, nor is s/he obligated to persuade get the barn owner to change that. Your anger about this is completely, utterly misplaced, and tracking down people connected to that barn, behind the owner's back, is really inappropriate. Assuming your contract does not spell out an obligation by the seller to give you the regular updates you want, this kind of unhinged behavior will probably get you shut out completely.

            As a rule, "scathing emails" do not produce good results. Far better would be a phone conversation to calmly and respectfully say that you would like more regular communication about the foal, and then ask what would be a reasonable frequency that the seller can support? You might say something like "I know your day must be super hectic and my requests for updates may be coming during times when you're busy. I thought I'd reach out and see if we can schedule a quick update call at a set day/time each month, so we can both plan around it. Would the 1st Monday of each month work for you-- and what time is most convenient? I can send out a reminder text or email the morning of the call. Could we try that for a couple months and see how it goes?" Focus on solving the problem rather than who's at fault.

            Comment


              #7
              The farm has a tragic accident and loses a probably beloved stallion and you're pissed that you weren't on their list of people to notify within 24 hours? Why would you think they would contact you to let you know that nothing had happened to your foal? I can understand your concern, but think you're misjudging what the farm's priorities should be at that time.

              Comment


                #8
                Me? Good suggestions here and always suspect of posts by relatively new members....
                Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. An observation that a person's sense of morality lessens as his or her power increases. Lord Acton

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Jenerationx View Post
                  The farm has a tragic accident and loses a probably beloved stallion and you're pissed that you weren't on their list of people to notify within 24 hours? Why would you think they would contact you to let you know that nothing had happened to your foal? I can understand your concern, but think you're misjudging what the farm's priorities should be at that time.
                  A terrible accident through no fault of their own, and Hungarian Hippo (and others) have offered great advice and perspective.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I would really hate to do business with you. In this post, you come off sounding like a demanding, self-centered hot head.

                    It never occurred to you to send a CONDOLENCE email to them when their stallion was killed? No...all you could think about was yourself/your investment.

                    Why would you even think that your foal was in Danger? If a fence was pushed down on one end of the farm, and my foal was on the other, I would never assume I’d get a notification that my horse was fine. It goes without saying that they would alert you if there were any problems that included your foal.

                    Do you have a contract in which photos are mentioned? You didn’t hire the photographer, they did. Of course she can’t give you photos. You could nicely ask the farm owners to allow you to buy some though.
                    It’s mid April...assuming your foal was born this year it’s maybe a month old. Maybe it’s a pricy TB, and was born Jan 1, but I doublt it. If there were no specific addendums to cover photos and video, you have to be NICE because this is now a FAVOR.

                    Do you really think a scathing letter to the BM is going to make you a VIP? You will alienate them and probably be communicated with as little as possible until you get out as quickly as they can facilitate you to do so.

                    Lastly, you have failed to fathom the potential impact of quarantine on horse businesses. I had to let my stall cleaners go to reduce farm traffic. I’m doing lots of stalls, turnouts, feedings, and training rides to maintain my business. Boarders are scheduled for visits, everyone is evicted from bathrooms, tack rooms, etc.
                    NO ONE has complained.
                    Have you even asked them how they are doing?

                    Seriosly, you sound like a nightmare client.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Alx View Post
                      I’m unhappy that I have had to beg for photos, videos, and updates.

                      I expected to get at least bi-weekly or monthly photos or updates. Am I expecting to much?



                      If you don’t let people know your expectations you can’t be angry when your expectations are not met,


                      maybe I’m just out of touch with reality regarding how farms sell their foals?

                      However she let me know that she doesn’t speak to the farms clients and that she doesn’t have permission to share photos of MY FOAL with me without the barn managers approval and that she isn’t going to request permission. Needless to say I’m furious!! Need some advice and guidance before I send the barn manager a flaming email.

                      You said, "If you don't let people know your expectations, you can't be angry when your expectations are not met.". What does your contract say? Does it outline that you are to receive photos, videos, updates and at least bi-weekly or monthly photos? If these are your expectations and they are not included in your contract, then why aren't they??

                      Yes, you are out of touch with reality regarding how farms sell their foals.

                      You're furious because you went behind the breeder's back, contacted their photographer about sharing photos of YOUR FOAL(!) without permission of the barn manager? Who hired the photographer? Who paid that photographer? You were out of line to contact the photographer without first checking with the barn manager or whoever hired that photographer.


                      Now, if your contract outlines all of your expectations and it is signed by the breeder, then that breeder should stick to the contract.


                      Comment


                        #12
                        Never buy a horse sight unseen. I have done this, and even with photos, you do not know what you are getting without a physical inspection. Can you get your money back? bc i would be really ticked off that i had put money into a horse that i had never seen.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Nezzy View Post
                          Never buy a horse sight unseen. I have done this, and even with photos, you do not know what you are getting without a physical inspection. Can you get your money back? bc i would be really ticked off that i had put money into a horse that i had never seen.
                          How can one be ticked off at "putting money in" to a horse bought sight-unseen if one made that purchase? Confused.
                          The armchair saddler
                          Politically Pro-Cat

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Alx
                            Thank you MVP that is great direction and just the insight I needed. I’ve had a few hours to cool down and I am in the right frame of mind to try and solve this problem professionally or just not address it all and accept that I have 3 1/2 more months of this situation. It’s hard because weeks go by and I’m like well I guess no news is good news. There is also some resentment because it feels like it’s just about the money. They took my money, we signed a contract, and then it was nothing but silence. I feel lucky if they post a photo of her on Facebook so I at the very least I get to see her that way. This has been a very tough pill to swallow and hard lesson learned, never buying a foal again.

                            HungarianHippo my anger at the photographer is because I reached out to her originally asking if could buy the photos from her, which she happily agreed to and sent me a link to my foals album. Then she voluntarily offered to take more pictures when she is out at the farm(I never asked for this but was ecstatic!) so when I asked her for those photos she came out of left field telling me she doesn’t speak to clients and that I can’t have the photos which was a total 180 change. So yes I’m angry and shocked because she happily told me one thing then completely flipped the script on me. I don’t think it’s inappropriate at all to ask a photographer if I can buy her photos, the farm showcases her photos these are not the farms private photos and she has a website where she showcases her photos so idk how any of this is considered going behind the barns back.
                            I need more information to actually solve your problem(s) with two separate (if enmeshed) business owners.

                            You have 3.5 more months in this deal because the baby is still at her dam's side?

                            I assume you have a detailed contract and payment schedule. Is there any money held back until the foal is weaned? Or did you buy the foal outright, weaned, and then chose to purchase boarding from the breeder? If the breeder's contract required full payment (and that you board the foal there until weaned), did you like the terms of that? Did you check out the breeder enough to know that he/she would keep your foal alive and cared for until weaned? Did the contract require you insure the foal? (It should have. If it did not, that's a red flag. But you should have.)

                            If you have paid for the foal and it's biologically possible, why not go look for a foal pasture closer to you that checks all your boxes?

                            As to the photog. So the photog and you were on friendly terms, then that changed and now, because the barn owner has prevented it, the photog will not take more pictures of your foal or sell you the existing ones? It sounds to me like you really pissed off the barn owner and the barn owner is deciding to not provide any help to you that she is not required to give. Could that be the case, given the order of communication?

                            if so, or anyway, I'd do some triage on this situation. I'd rank my priorities, let go of what was not paramount and be very, very kind and understanding in all your communication right now. By "now" I mean during the pandemic, while the farm is dealing with its tragic loss of a stallion, and while you (might have) put yourself on someone's shit list.

                            So it's not that "no news is good news, or bad news," rather, it's that your foal that is safe is not their priority during a global pandemic. Seriously and objectively, you must admit that your need for a foal check-in can't possibly be top on their list.

                            Your priority is or should be having your foal get cared for as she should. Do whatever it takes to get this. In the grand scheme of things, this is all that will matter and the rest will fade. This 3.5 months will become a very short and early chapter in the story of this horse's life with you.

                            After that, drop your requests from the photographer. Those pictures would be nice. If it is impractical to get more pictures because of the pandemic or it's politically impossible because of strained relations, just leave it alone for now. Maybe make up with the BO and ask her in a couple of months to allow the photog to come do another shoot before your foal leaves the farm. But leaving this relationship and request alone for the time-being is part of being able to possibly come back and ask later.

                            Last, I think you need to know that the old adage "you get more flies with honey than vinegar" has just about been elevated to a law of physics right now. I can't tell you how much kindness and "extra" I have gotten from people just by beginning my request with "Please don't do anything you don't feel safe or able to do, I'll wait, but can you do X or Y for me?"

                            Good luck!
                            The armchair saddler
                            Politically Pro-Cat

                            Comment


                              #15
                              GOOD FOLKS! (Waving hand), before you spend any more time trying to help this poster, please first read this thread:

                              https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/f...-of-show-horse
                              "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

                              "It's supposed to be hard...the hard is what makes it great!" (Jimmy Dugan, "A League of Their Own")

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Yeah, someone should send the breeder this thread.
                                Let me apologize in advance.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Dr. Doolittle View Post
                                  GOOD FOLKS! (Waving hand), before you spend any more time trying to help this poster, please first read this thread:

                                  https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/f...-of-show-horse
                                  oh lord.
                                  Let me apologize in advance.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by ladyj79 View Post

                                    oh lord.
                                    😄

                                    I am impressed by the reflexive kindness of COTH (and desire to help), but we should also be alert to these scam posters.

                                    Red flag?? A stallion “broke through the fence” (okay, not out of the realm of possibility), but was then “hit by a train and killed?”

                                    That set my Spidey senses to tingling - and since I had just read the other (ahem) Tall Tale on the Eventing Forum, I went back there to confirm that yes indeedy, this was the same poster.
                                    "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."

                                    "It's supposed to be hard...the hard is what makes it great!" (Jimmy Dugan, "A League of Their Own")

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Whatever happened to dear sweet Tolo?

                                      https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/f...-of-show-horse
                                      http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by enjoytheride View Post
                                        Whatever happened to dear sweet Tolo?

                                        https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/f...-of-show-horse
                                        Might be a Trollo.

                                        Comment

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