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Scientifically proven to be better than scratching.

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  • #1

    Scientifically proven to be better than scratching.

    http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=16878
    Laurie Higgins
    www.coreconnexxions.com
    ________________
    "Expectation is premeditated disappointment."
    Tags: None
  • #2
    My horse is delighted with the findings of this study.
    "Remain relentlessly cheerful."

    Graphite/Pastel Portraits

    Comment

    • #3
      Fascinating!

      But they left out the second part of the study, where by week 10 the yearlings were trampling their handlers in a desperate bid to get extra treats!!

      Also, have they done this study on humans? Do kids learn faster if they get an m&m for each correctly spelled word as opposed to a gold star or smile? What about adults? Are you more motivated by praise or a free sandwich?

      I joke, but really, it is very interesting. i didn't know the wither scratching had been tested as actually lowering heart rate either.

      Comment

      • #4
        I could have told them that not all horses liked their withers scratched! I'm sure many here have horses who dont care for it. I dont know if there is a universally appreciated scratch spot for horses.

        Although mine have always appreciated a belly button scritch!

        Comment

        • #5
          Originally posted by twofatponies View Post
          Fascinating!

          But they left out the second part of the study, where by week 10 the yearlings were trampling their handlers in a desperate bid to get extra treats!!

          Also, have they done this study on humans? Do kids learn faster if they get an m&m for each correctly spelled word as opposed to a gold star or smile? What about adults? Are you more motivated by praise or a free sandwich?

          I joke, but really, it is very interesting. i didn't know the wither scratching had been tested as actually lowering heart rate either.
          Kids love gold stars! Me, I would like praise over food, unless it's a Starbucks! lol

          My horse, likes me to play with his tongue after a ride!

          Comment

          • #6
            Yeah, mine is not super-excited about withers scratching, but he loves having his ears scratched. (:
            "Remain relentlessly cheerful."

            Graphite/Pastel Portraits

            Comment

            • #7
              I did find treats very helpful in softening up my ex-Amish Morgan mare, who came to me very broke but very standoffish and "formal".

              But I don't feed them much to my mouthy young QH, who is already quite people-oriented and loves attention of any kind.

              Comment

              • #8
                Instead of spending all that time and money studying it, all they had to do was ask any horse!
                "The Threat of Internet Ignorance: ... we are witnessing the rise of an age of equestrian disinformation, one where a trusting public can graze on nonsense packaged to look like fact."-LRG-AF

                Comment

                • Original Poster
                  #9
                  CatOnLap - I agree! All of us who clicker train knew that already and so do our horses!

                  Clicker training people - it's called TAGTeaching - Teaching with Accoustical Guidance. The people (youth or adult) don't need the food. The click is enough reward for them because it works so well.

                  The website is: www.tagteach.com.

                  And there is a very clear protocol for teaching the horses not to mug the trainer. Read up on it and find out.
                  Laurie Higgins
                  www.coreconnexxions.com
                  ________________
                  "Expectation is premeditated disappointment."

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Agreed! Mugging the owner for treats is an owner created problem, and can (and should) be addressed before using treats for anything at all. Read up indeed - Shawna Karrash and Alexandra Kurland are the two most noted trainer using these techniques in horses.

                    None of my pets like scratches, actually. =( My dog doesn't like petting of any kind, and my horse is merely tolerant of it. I think she likes it about as well as she 'enjoys' having her feet picked out. "Meh.", she'd say. Now, of course, if a scratch or a pat ALWAYS precedes the treat, she'd learn to like that too...

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by twofatponies View Post
                      Fascinating!

                      But they left out the second part of the study, where by week 10 the yearlings were trampling their handlers in a desperate bid to get extra treats!!

                      Also, have they done this study on humans? Do kids learn faster if they get an m&m for each correctly spelled word as opposed to a gold star or smile? What about adults? Are you more motivated by praise or a free sandwich?

                      I joke, but really, it is very interesting. i didn't know the wither scratching had been tested as actually lowering heart rate either.

                      My mother thought the m&ms worked better. She used to give me one for every correct answer while doing flash cards.....
                      Turn off the computer and go ride!

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster
                        #12
                        One must teach conditioned reinforcers, such as a withers scratch or a "good boy/girl".

                        To do that you pair your CR with treats, just the way you "charged" the clicker: scratch>treat, scratch>treat, scratch>treat. Do this many, many times over several days until you're sure the horse has learned that scratch=treat.

                        Then using an easy, already trained behavior, transition to: click>scratch>treat. Do this many, many times over several days until you're sure the horse has begun to pair click to the scratch. Then drop out the treat.

                        CRs need to be recharged on a regular basis.
                        Laurie Higgins
                        www.coreconnexxions.com
                        ________________
                        "Expectation is premeditated disappointment."

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Is this the same research group that thinks horses favorite flavors are banana, anise etc? None of the horses in our barn liked ANY of those flavors and by the time we got half way through the list (just trying for some variety in life) they were pretty ticked at us for the nasties rather than treats.

                          Our one guy is good with the treat thing but seems to like praise and skritches as much. Coop will do just about anything for a "good boy"... seriously. His whole posture changes and you can literally see him march around telling the others "She said I'm a GOOD BOY...How about THAT!"

                          Typically these studies are pretty small numbers so I kind of take them with a grain of salt. If the horse can learn with treats and you want to go that way - fine. If you'd rather use other positive reinforcement and the horse responds to that - equally good I think.

                          I know the clicker people have worked out a way to avoid turning your hand fed horse into a mugger, but I thought you'd enjoy this story anyway

                          Way back when I was in High School, we had our first horse in a suburban farm. A bunch of the girls with horses/ponies at the farm decided they were going to do handy hunters (2 jumps) at the next local show and started training. Everyone stands in a line, then one at a time canters down and over the in and out, stop at the fence at the other side of the ring, give your horse a treat from the saddle and trot back to the line.

                          Yup... horses in the class went over the two fences, shreeked to a halt and turned around looking for their treat.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            [QUOTE=MsM;5065907]I could have told them that not all horses liked their withers scratched! I'm sure many here have horses who dont care for it. I dont know if there is a universally appreciated scratch spot for horses. /QUOTE]

                            All I know is that my mare loves having her butt scratched! She scares new people when she turns her butt to them!

                            But that is not to say she would give up a good treat for a butt scratch! She has me so well trained, that once I run out of treats I get her butt in my face.....
                            We do not have an overpopulation of dogs, we have an under population of responsible dog owners!!!

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              My gelding also loves having his butt scratched.
                              However he displays his pleasure in a sociallly inappropriate way!

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