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Paging Mike Matson

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  • Paging Mike Matson

    Quote:"Someone really needs to do a medical study of horsepeople and their injuries. From the reading here, I suspect only football players are worse off in old age."

    I did, on a small scale from a sports perspective......

    Bro, NO ONE, no sport, anywhere from the numbers and injuries I have seen compares to equestrian athletes.
    With catastrophic injury rankings in the "car-pedestrian impact" area (like MX, powerboat racing, and like)
    and
    the duration you all are in it for....

    NOPE, IMO you all stand alone.

    AaS, that last thread is proving INVALUABLE and certainly a paper is coming out of it.

    Regards,
    Medical Mike
    equestrian medical researcher
    www.equicision.com

  • #2
    Hey Mike, just don't let the insurance companies know.

    P.S. You get my link to the UDBB for their responses?
    "No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier

    Comment


    • #3
      Not even bull riders? Wow!
      There are friends and faces that may be forgotten, but there are horses that never will be. - Andy Adams

      Comment


      • #4
        One year at Spruce Meadows ( I think it was 2008), everyone was asked to fill in questionnaires about injuries they'd had related to riding - was that your study, medical mike?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Borah View Post
          One year at Spruce Meadows ( I think it was 2008), everyone was asked to fill in questionnaires about injuries they'd had related to riding - was that your study, medical mike?
          That doesn't seem like it would provide a very accurate sample, since people who ride well enough to show at a place like Spruce Meadows might skew the results. It would exclude many, many less proficient riders, who are probably more likely to get hurt.

          I would think.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hey Mike, better check in on the original thread - more injuries.
            "No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Nope...Not been to Spruce Meadows.

              To be sure though.....ALL data is good data when you don't have any to start!

              It seems that there are alot of folks out there with some type of baseline data.....It would be great if anyone who knows of a person collecting data could pass me his/her contact information or passed mine to him/her.

              Would help to get the sport recognized for what it really is by the larger sports medicine community.

              Regards,
              medical Mike
              equestrian medical researcher
              www.equicision.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by medical mike View Post

                Would help to get the sport recognized for what it really is by the larger sports medicine community.

                Regards,
                medical Mike
                equestrian medical researcher
                www.equicision.com
                No kidding. I went to the doc recently with knee pain. I told him it was really bad when posting the trot. He was utterly baffled. He thought we didn't do anything but sit there while the horse did all the work. It's difficult to trust someone to treat your sports injuries when they have no idea how the joints or muscles are being used. Good luck. I can't wait to see the results.
                "Rock n' roll's not through, yeah, I'm sewing wings on this thing." --Destroyer
                http://dressagescriblog.wordpress.com/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by kinnip View Post
                  No kidding. I went to the doc recently with knee pain. I told him it was really bad when posting the trot. He was utterly baffled. He thought we didn't do anything but sit there while the horse did all the work. It's difficult to trust someone to treat your sports injuries when they have no idea how the joints or muscles are being used. Good luck. I can't wait to see the results.
                  Try to find a doc with some equestrian experience. I drive to Cincinnati to see my orthopedic surgeon after problems with my local sports doc. Though it's been years since Dr. C rode, he treats riders on a more "regular" basis and has ridden in the past so he understands what I used to do. When we came to the decision that riding was too much for my knee he joked I can show the hunters bareback Wouldn't that get some looks!?!

                  You can try the Knee Guru website and post on that forum and maybe get some help.
                  "The horse you get off f is not the same horse you got on. It is your job as a rider to ensure that as often as possible, the change is for the better" - unknown author

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have a client that is an orthopedic surgeon. He says Cheerleading is far and away the most injurious sport out there.
                    "You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend"
                    carolprudm

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Maybe for teens, but you don't find many active cheerleaders in their 30s, 40s, 50s, and 60s as you do for horse people.
                      "No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by medical mike View Post
                        Nope...Not been to Spruce Meadows.

                        To be sure though.....ALL data is good data when you don't have any to start!

                        It seems that there are alot of folks out there with some type of baseline data.....It would be great if anyone who knows of a person collecting data could pass me his/her contact information or passed mine to him/her.

                        Would help to get the sport recognized for what it really is by the larger sports medicine community.

                        Regards,
                        medical Mike
                        equestrian medical researcher
                        www.equicision.com

                        Do not know who it was that conducted the survey but i would imagine if you emailed/phoned Spruce they would help you out. Except maybe wait a couple weeks since they are smack in the middle of the Masters tournaments.

                        http://sprucemeadows.com/contact.jsp
                        A Wandering Albertan - NEW Africa travel blog!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Good point about equestrians riding and competing decades longer than most athletes. Thinking about rodeo riding--they KNOW they are going to come off and have learned to fall probably better than anyone except maybe a jujitsu. My question is, what's the rate of injury per riding hour?

                          I contributed my list to the injury thread and noted that I never really had a serious or even very painful injury until I was in my 50s, but this is the decade when I've ridden most, not to mention I'm brittler than I've ever been.

                          Good thing I wear a helmet now (didnt until this latest spate of re-re-riding) because I clunk my head EVERY time I fall off, whereas before I not only didnt fall very often, I dont think I ever hit my head when I did.

                          Another good thing, I dont jump except for little logs and such on the trails. All my injuries are from colliding with a solid object, usually the ground.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by kinnip View Post
                            No kidding. I went to the doc recently with knee pain. I told him it was really bad when posting the trot. He was utterly baffled. He thought we didn't do anything but sit there while the horse did all the work. It's difficult to trust someone to treat your sports injuries when they have no idea how the joints or muscles are being used. Good luck. I can't wait to see the results.
                            Had to laugh I recently "trotted" and posted around the exam room to demonstrate where my knee pain comes from! The Ortho Doc was fascinated to say the least. Turns out after 50+ years of riding, MRI's show my knees were "deformed" in childhood while my bones were still developing. As long as I don't break my back....again...I'll be happy with the knee braces <lol>

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              We really need some more docs out there who know what riding is about/ how it works/ muscles used, etc. I went to a PT for back issues from riding, and even though he'd never worked with a rider before he was still very good... but I think it would have been less confusing for both of us if he had know what I was talking about the first time!

                              However, when I took a nasty fall (fell off, got kicked across the face, ambulance, ER, etc), about every 2nd person who came in/ was in there (doctors, etc) was like "Oh yeah! My wife/ husband/ daughter/ friend owns/ rides/ owned/ rode horses! I know exactly what you're talking about!" Maybe we're better off talking to the ER docs... but I think it depends on where you are too. This was in NH... I doubt you'd get as many horse people in, say, NYC or Chicago or DC.
                              Different flavors of crazy, but totally NUTS. You know its true. - GreyHunterHorse

                              http://showertimecontemplations.blogspot.com/

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by mike View Post

                                To be sure though.....ALL data is good data when you don't have any to start!

                                It would be great if anyone who knows of a person collecting data could pass me his/her contact information or passed mine to him/her.
                                You should do a lit review: There is data out there on injury patterns, risk factors, outcomes, the equestrian's willingness to participate in rehabilitation, and more.

                                Among many other real medical professionals, Chad Ball, at the University of Calgary, is a "person collecting data". I'll bet the above suggested lit review could point you in the direction of even more researchers who have collected the type of data you are seeking and would better inform your "research".
                                Last edited by shanky; Sep. 1, 2010, 11:15 AM.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by jeano View Post
                                  Good point about equestrians riding and competing decades longer than most athletes. Thinking about rodeo riding--they KNOW they are going to come off and have learned to fall probably better than anyone except maybe a jujitsu. My question is, what's the rate of injury per riding hour?

                                  I contributed my list to the injury thread and noted that I never really had a serious or even very painful injury until I was in my 50s, but this is the decade when I've ridden most, not to mention I'm brittler than I've ever been.

                                  Good thing I wear a helmet now (didnt until this latest spate of re-re-riding) because I clunk my head EVERY time I fall off, whereas before I not only didnt fall very often, I dont think I ever hit my head when I did.

                                  Another good thing, I dont jump except for little logs and such on the trails. All my injuries are from colliding with a solid object, usually the ground.
                                  I suspect the rate/hr. of injury in rough stock riders would be pretty dramatic, as they ride in 8 second intervals.

                                  Seriously, calculating rates of injury in the equestrian arts is going to produce a very "soft" number because there no odometers or hour-meters or other accurate measuring devices to calculate a base.

                                  Riders can also go a very long time, yet to have any base of comparison with other sports you have to know how many started at some point and then measure how many are still riding later on. For some other sports you have a chance at a starting number (Little Leauge, Pop Warner, etc.) and an ending number, but only while they are in the organized activity. No such broadly based organizations exist in the equestrian world.

                                  I gave a "clinic" a couple of years ago on how not to take a jump (and won a "prize" consisting of an ambulance ride, 24 hrs. in the Cheyenne Regional Medical Center, one MRI, and three CAT scans). All of the "authority figures" around me have said, "no mas." So far I'm paying attention.

                                  There is an element of danger in working around horses that is never zero because the horse is something that is not always under control. But claims of "most dangerous" are always suspect and might be as much "machismo" as science.

                                  G.

                                  P.S. As a result of my mishap a couple of people who regularly compete at the NCCs now wear helmets and they may be mandatory in the near future. I guess we all have role to play, even if it's just being a "bad example."
                                  Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by medical mike View Post
                                    Would help to get the sport recognized for what it really is by the larger sports medicine community.
                                    Oh, yes please. Pretty please with sugar on top.

                                    I'm about ready to give several medical professionals a knuckle sandwich.

                                    I'm fed up with the attitude and ignorance - especially from pro's in this area. It's full of eventers, foxhunters, h/j, dressage, you name it we got it.

                                    And still the attitude is a pat on the head and advice to quit riding and take up swimming, as "you're not 20 anymore".

                                    Well - SCREW THAT.

                                    If I wanted a lecture I'd call my mother!
                                    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                                    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                                    -Rudyard Kipling

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Shanky, If you don't know for sure, ask the question. That post comes off rather brisk and open for intent.

                                      MRoads,
                                      IMO what we know about equestrian athletes is about where cheerleading was 15-20 years ago.
                                      Went through those arguments and while cheerleading is up there, equestrian sports has it topped...

                                      For anyone who was riding before helmets......
                                      If you grind the OLD data, you could make the conclusion that you had a one percent chance of dying EVERY TIME you got on a horse. Wearing helmets now has thankfully skewed the data.........

                                      And if anyone is interested in hosting/organizing it, I have a six part course designed to introduce the sport to medical professionals
                                      or
                                      a short course that goes the other way.

                                      REgards,
                                      Medical Mike
                                      equestrian medical researcher

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by JSwan View Post
                                        And still the attitude is a pat on the head and advice to quit riding and take up swimming, as "you're not 20 anymore".

                                        Well - SCREW THAT.

                                        If I wanted a lecture I'd call my mother!
                                        I got that too from my orthopedic surgeon, the one who put my collarbone back together after a bad fall. He about hit the ceiling when he asked me (4 months post-surgery) if I felt like I was ready for PT, and I told him I'd been grooming horses for 3 months, riding for 2, and had just become able to saddle a horse without help. He told me to stop riding. I said NO WAY and we compromised on no jumping. Two years later, I am still riding and enjoying it.

                                        This guy is a sports medicine specialist. For g-d's sake, he works for the Red Sox, the Patriots, the Bruins, and the Celtics! But a 44 YO woman rider, he could not see as a "serious" athlete.

                                        He did say he thinks horse people are crazy, though.
                                        You have to have experiences to gain experience.

                                        1998 Morgan mare Mythic Feronia "More Valley Girl Than Girl Scout!"

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