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Buyer throwing up red flags

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  • #21
    Phew! Hopefully, he'll only be a short term p.i.t.a. now that you've told him they're no longer available. Agreed, you've dodged a bullet (and more) getting out of this sale I think you already went above and beyond trying to be accommodating to his 'out there' questions, changing tales and "if it's your fault if the horse colics". Yeesh!

    Comment


    • #22
      Ugh I would have been concerned about the 2 year old to a total non-horse person and no trainer to begin with. You don't need a reason not to sell to a bad match. Just no.

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by BrokenArrow View Post

        The contract is stated that the buyer is responsible for all vet costs it is highly recommended they take out mortality insurance. That wasn't the issue.

        His wording was "Well what if it's your fault if they get hurt or sick?" And then he said he wouldn't be paying for vet bills for colic if it's our fault the horse colics. That's what caught me off guard. It felt like a potential lawsuit waiting to happen for us if the horse so much as scratches herself.

        The issue was more about the story constantly changing about what he wanted. I'm more than happy to help people wade through the minefield of gradings and the other confusing things when it comes to Friesians. But both the fillies were advertised as their respective books, it was explained to him several times and I even got other people who are much more knowledgable than me to help him get his head around it. I'm not going to guarantee the 2 year old will be a Ster at the next Keuring as he wanted to be written into the contract.

        He doesn't have a trainer. The area he lives in has an abundance of extremely good trainers as well which I recommended him to as well as suggesting lessons.

        I told him this morning the fillies are no longer available to purchase. He's VERY unhappy with this which makes me glad about our brand new security system after the run in with the nutty neighbor. I feel like I've dodged a bullet with this one.
        My apologies for misunderstanding and thank you for clarifying. I agree with your decision not to sell the horses this party. Liability concerns aside, I think you could see that this guy was not well positioned to have a successful experience with these horses after purchasing them, no matter what happened. And then, it would be your fault or someone else's fault, depending on the particulars of how it played out.

        Now, just a brief sidebar. Aside from this guy (who seemed to have an unpleasant manner and unrealistic expectations) I don't think the basic question he asked is a bad one. I am a BO and responsible for valuable horses belonging to other parties and I periodically have perfectly reasonable clients ask me about difficult questions related to "what happens if." When you are caring for someone else's valuable animal/s, it is perfectly reasonable for them to want assurances that their animal will be well cared for, and to want to know what their recourse is if a farm or facility is negligent in their care. Answering this question can result in a good discussion that results in a stronger partnership with a better educated client. I think that this is a good question for a BO or BM to be prepared to answer.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by BrokenArrow View Post

          The contract is stated that the buyer is responsible for all vet costs it is highly recommended they take out mortality insurance. That wasn't the issue.

          His wording was "Well what if it's your fault if they get hurt or sick?" And then he said he wouldn't be paying for vet bills for colic if it's our fault the horse colics. That's what caught me off guard. It felt like a potential lawsuit waiting to happen for us if the horse so much as scratches herself.

          The issue was more about the story constantly changing about what he wanted. I'm more than happy to help people wade through the minefield of gradings and the other confusing things when it comes to Friesians. But both the fillies were advertised as their respective books, it was explained to him several times and I even got other people who are much more knowledgable than me to help him get his head around it. I'm not going to guarantee the 2 year old will be a Ster at the next Keuring as he wanted to be written into the contract.

          He doesn't have a trainer. The area he lives in has an abundance of extremely good trainers as well which I recommended him to as well as suggesting lessons.

          I told him this morning the fillies are no longer available to purchase. He's VERY unhappy with this which makes me glad about our brand new security system after the run in with the nutty neighbor. I feel like I've dodged a bullet with this one.
          Good! Glad you gave him the heave-ho, he sounds like a total yahoo.

          Comment


          • #25
            I realize everyone has to start their education somewhere, but the folks that are quick to blame others for (of all things) colic just shows a willful ignorance that I refuse to deal with.

            Google a horse's digestive system and you'll see there's no logical reason for it to work as well as it does half the time! Seriously, between impaction, displacement, lipoma, adhesions, colitis, salmonella and anything else that hits the teeth or later is mostly out of the caretaker's control.

            Concur with the others who are relieved you gave him the heave ho. And I'm sure your fillies thank you too.

            Comment


            • #26
              I'd also have trouble selling to someone who couldn't save the money before they started shopping for a horse, as I'd be worried that it was an impulsive purchase by someone who didn't have their first clue, and the horse would suffer for it.

              Comment


              • #27
                When I was working in a tack shop someone came in to buy a tube and some mineral oil.

                She wanted to be prepared in case one of her other horses would be fine if ever they had a colic.
                She was quite angry at her vet.

                One of her horse had just died of colic.
                Her friend had told her the vet should have tubed her horse with oil and it would have survived.
                She wanted to sue the vet... has she felt the vet hadn’t followed basic protocol...

                I was quite stunned.
                And asked for the « full » story...

                Older horse had been down in the field when the vet arrived.
                Didn’t knew for how long - those were pasture horses who get checked once or twice a day at best.

                Vet couldn’t get the horse up and offered to euthanized it on the spot. No autopsy/necropsy done.

                I had to explain to the lady that one could not tube a horse if it wasn’t standing.
                I also tried to explain that mineral oil is no magic cure; « colics » being a generic term used for many ailments.
                It could have been a gaz colic, a torsion or an impaction... or anything else actually... a internal cancer that bursted...

                I then explained the procedure ... that the vet would have had to empty the horse’s stomach first before pumping oil in there, only if it was an impaction. or pumping gaz-x stuff to remove the gaz buildup.

                I also made it clear that tubing a horse wasn’t that easy! That she should never, ever attempt it without learning how do to it because she could very well kill her horse by doing so! Imagine pumping oil in your horse’s lungs!

                Long story short, she still was pissed we had no tube or pump to sell her...
                She left with a gallon of mineral oil and a big oral syringe, and told me I should mind my business.

                I wouldn’t want to be her vet, sell her a horse or do horse related business with such uneducated cray-cray.

                Life is too short.
                You dodged a bullet.
                ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                Originally posted by LauraKY
                I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
                HORSING mobile training app

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                • #28
                  Quickly say " Bye, Bye, Buyer"!
                  Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                  Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by alibi_18 View Post
                    Older horse had been down in the field when the vet arrived.
                    Didn’t knew for how long - those were pasture horses who get checked once or twice a day at best.

                    Vet couldn’t get the horse up and offered to euthanized it on the spot. No autopsy/necropsy done.

                    I had to explain to the lady that one could not tube a horse if it wasn’t standing.
                    I also tried to explain that mineral oil is no magic cure; « colics » being a generic term used for many ailments.
                    It could have been a gaz colic, a torsion or an impaction... or anything else actually... a internal cancer that bursted...

                    I then explained the procedure ... that the vet would have had to empty the horse’s stomach first before pumping oil in there, only if it was an impaction. or pumping gaz-x stuff to remove the gaz buildup.
                    I didn't know a lying horse couldn't be tubed.

                    That's a bit of a relief from putting my mare down in 2018. Her former owner gave me a bit of a guilt trip about the vet not tubing her. She had gone down before the vet arrived and never got up again. Before she went down the last time she had been moving her hind end around her front end and going down periodically. She was soaked with sweat in 40*F weather wearing a sheet and I felt she had been through enough pain, plus I thought it was not safe to be near her when she was vertical.

                    That's fine, many of us have slid down this slippery slope and became very happy (and broke) doing it. We may not have a retirement, but we have memories ...

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      For awhile there, about 10 years ago, there was a rage for Friesians in the U.S. The most amazingly horse-ignorant people bought themselves either a Friesian mare or a stallion, and thought they'd be retiring soon in riches because this Bank of Friesian would be allowing them to rake in the money.

                      I boarded at a barn that purchased a 10-breedings contract with a Friesian stallion somewhere out in the boonies of Minnesota. They then took their godawful mares out to produce the 'Friesian cross' horses of their dreams, every one of which turned out to be as godawful as their dams and had nothing of their sire.

                      OP, I'm so glad you cut off this purchaser. I would have been very worried about the conditions and care.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        I just don't sell my horses to people that don't "sit right" with me!! This buyer strikes me as being more trouble than the average buyer...I'd shut him down...no reason necessary..."Sorry the horse is no longer available...Good bye!"
                        www.crosscreeksporthorses.com
                        Breeders of Painted Thoroughbreds and Uniquely Painted Irish Sport Horses in Northeast Oklahoma

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #32
                          Well, the crazy continues. I seriously don't know how I attract the crazy people in my life.

                          I got a bill this morning from him as he wanted me to reimburse him for his travel costs and time since I took the fillies off the market. The email was along the lines of, he is a very important business man and his time is too valuable to be wasted by the likes of people like me. Cue my eyes rolling into the back of my skull as I read the email.

                          Part of me is tempted to send him a bill for my time with all his phone calls, emails and text messages I've had to reply to while this has been going on. Every time he called, it was a minimum of an hour on the phone trying to answer his questions. I work odd hours and when people ring me at 9pm and then consistently ring 3 or 4 times when I don't answer is exhausting. I'm not a pro anymore. I gave it up because of the one person like this who ruins it for everyone else.

                          Everything is being kept track of if he does decide to pursue it further. Part of me thinks this is simply hot air and someone who's butthurt. But better to be prepared if his brand of crazy is a little crazier than usual.
                          Not my circus, not my monkeys!

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Wow. So sorry you've got this to contend with, BA! My guess is you're right -- he's butthurt and trying to scare you. There's nothing to his complaint. He'd be laughed out of court if it got that far.

                            What a jerk.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Falls firmly under the category of "Cant' make this shyte up". Do you have a lawyer friend who specializes in equine law?
                              I'd definitely send a counter bill for YOUr time WRT answering redundant/ amateur/ ignorant questions. Preferably on lawyer friend's letterhead.

                              Especially if he can GOOGLE THE ANSWERS!!!
                              **snort**

                              I kill me..

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                ignore this billing BS .... you owe him nothing !

                                do not engage with him ... in any form

                                he will disappear
                                Zu Zu Bailey " IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE ! "

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Hopefully Mr. Important Pants will just disappear up his own butthurt butt! What a doofus!

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by BrokenArrow View Post
                                    Well, the crazy continues. I seriously don't know how I attract the crazy people in my life.

                                    I got a bill this morning from him as he wanted me to reimburse him for his travel costs and time since I took the fillies off the market. The email was along the lines of, he is a very important business man and his time is too valuable to be wasted by the likes of people like me. Cue my eyes rolling into the back of my skull as I read the email.

                                    Part of me is tempted to send him a bill for my time with all his phone calls, emails and text messages I've had to reply to while this has been going on. Every time he called, it was a minimum of an hour on the phone trying to answer his questions. I work odd hours and when people ring me at 9pm and then consistently ring 3 or 4 times when I don't answer is exhausting. I'm not a pro anymore. I gave it up because of the one person like this who ruins it for everyone else.

                                    Everything is being kept track of if he does decide to pursue it further. Part of me thinks this is simply hot air and someone who's butthurt. But better to be prepared if his brand of crazy is a little crazier than usual.
                                    Another vote for just ignoring his e-mail and not to engage with him further.

                                    There is no point in countering and sending him a bill for your time. You won't collect anything but you might incite him enough to escalate the situation. Totally not worth it.

                                    I'll share a somewhat related story. Many years ago, we had a 3' horse for sale. Several people wanted to try him over the weekend at a show and another family wanted to try him the following Monday at our barn. Sunday rolls around and the poor horse has jumped so much he is visibly exhausted. We call the Monday appointment and tell them we would like to reschedule. Horse was tried by other customers, showed in classes and he needs a day or two off. Trainer tries to argue every which way to keep the appointment. We gently decline. Trainer wants to know what else in the barn is for sale. We tell her and she decides she would like to come and try a 3'6" horse (for a different client) on Monday.

                                    Monday rolls around and the trainer arrives WITH the family that is interested in the 3' horse. No point in making a scene so we gently tell the trainer the trial has to be short and sweet. The horse is tired. The daughter tries the 3' horse and everything goes well. Tuesday AM arrives and the vet shows up and informs us he is pulling blood on the 3' horse at the request of the trainer who tried him on Monday. Okay. Usually a trainer asks before they send the vet out, but okay. Whatever. We tell the vet the 3' horse had bute Sunday night (after we had "cancelled" the appointment) and that will show up on the results. Vet says he will let the client know. Trainer calls the next the day and asks to do a PPE. PPE is performed and the vet finds a spur in his hock and the family decide to pass. Okay. Disappointing outcome, but the horse is performing his job and we won't have a problem selling him to someone else.

                                    A few days later the dad sends me an e-mail demanding I reimburse him for the cost of the PPE. He stated the horse failed the PPE. We didn't disclose the spur (I guess were have x-ray vision?) and oh by the way, his blood test showed he had received bute. The dad went on to say we were horrible, dishonest people and we put his daughter at risk by letting her ride a horse that had received "pain killers" (bute). Daughter could have been seriously hurt, we need to pay for failed PPE. He is a busy man and had to take off work to try the horse, daughter had to skip school, we have to pay for PPE. I wanted to fire off an e-mail letting him know he was ill-informed and his trainers weren't communicating with him, but I knew that was pointless. I ignored his e-mail, but fifteen years later, it still annoys me.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      I have refused to sell a cow or sheep to people that didn't seem right. A beginner willing to learn is good. A beginner that knows it all is bad.

                                      Your bad buyer might think the horses were already sold when he looked at them. Perhaps you should clarify when they were sold (or taken off the market). Since he fussed so much about no written guarantee that they will pass their evaluations, maybe you chose to keep them until they are older, have more evaluations, and worth even more?

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        This is just my personal opinion, but it is not your problem that a buyer decided to come to you. It is not your problem that he incurred travel costs. He could have looked locally. Or acknowledged that is a risk. One can travel to go look at a horse, not sign any contract or bill of sale. While said person is going back and forther over whether or not they want to purchase the horse, the horse could be sold. That's real life.

                                        If he was serious he could have left a deposit. Could have set up a vet check.

                                        I understand that he had questions, but also simply could not acknowledge that with horses, there are very, very, few guarantees. One cannot guarantee the horse won't colic, get struck by lightening, be involved in some freak event. One cannot also guarantee that said young horse will increase in value or ranking in the breed registry. Buying a horse is a heck of a risk. You can do your due diligence, but at the end of the day, it is an animal.

                                        A buyer can choose not to buy. A seller can choose not to sell. This excludes contractual obligations, of course. This referes to before a deal is done sort of thing.

                                        He's going to have to cut his losses and move along. Or maybe he will be so sour he will no longer shop for a horse (that might be ideal, really). Who knows. Don't contact him. If he is serious, his lawyer will contact you, and you will then acquire council/legal advisement.

                                        Just my 2 cents. I hope that nothing further comes of this and that if you choose to continue selling horses the crazies stay away.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by CanteringCarrot View Post
                                          This is just my personal opinion, but it is not your problem that a buyer decided to come to you. It is not your problem that he incurred travel costs. He could have looked locally. Or acknowledged that is a risk. One can travel to go look at a horse, not sign any contract or bill of sale. While said person is going back and forther over whether or not they want to purchase the horse, the horse could be sold. That's real life.

                                          If he was serious he could have left a deposit. Could have set up a vet check.

                                          I understand that he had questions, but also simply could not acknowledge that with horses, there are very, very, few guarantees. One cannot guarantee the horse won't colic, get struck by lightening, be involved in some freak event. One cannot also guarantee that said young horse will increase in value or ranking in the breed registry. Buying a horse is a heck of a risk. You can do your due diligence, but at the end of the day, it is an animal.

                                          A buyer can choose not to buy. A seller can choose not to sell. This excludes contractual obligations, of course. This referes to before a deal is done sort of thing.

                                          He's going to have to cut his losses and move along. Or maybe he will be so sour he will no longer shop for a horse (that might be ideal, really). Who knows. Don't contact him. If he is serious, his lawyer will contact you, and you will then acquire council/legal advisement.

                                          Just my 2 cents. I hope that nothing further comes of this and that if you choose to continue selling horses the crazies stay away.
                                          I take back what I posted before. This is the best advice

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