Vent... I hate the suburbs.

[FrenchFrytheEqHorse]

There are worse things than a Football stadium. I'm guessing it's for the local high school? It'll probably get used about 15 weekends a year as a stadium (football season is short). And practices won't draw more than 100 people or so.

Not true, AT ALL. Football stadiums are THE WORST. There is one about a mile from the farm where I board my horse. Have you ever spent an afternoon listening to the high school marching band practice? It's BAD. For several hours. And this one is a mile away. I can hear drums for days after I leave. The games aren't even the worst part. It would seem that the football stadium is the heart of most high schools, and reserved for only their loudest events.

[eponacelt]

Not true, AT ALL. Football stadiums are THE WORST. There is one about a mile from the farm where I board my horse. Have you ever spent an afternoon listening to the high school marching band practice? It's BAD. For several hours. And this one is a mile away. I can hear drums for days after I leave. The games aren't even the worst part. It would seem that the football stadium is the heart of most high schools, and reserved for only their loudest events.

hey now...what do you have against marching bands?!?!

[FrenchFrytheEqHorse]

Communities are also made by the farmer who willingly sells land to developers. I would hazard a guess that many of the people on this BB live in houses which are less than 10 years old. Even people like myself who live in houses which were built back in the 1800's or earlier. Someone gave up land to build these houses - just because I live in a house which is over 150 years old does not mean that there were no changes to the land. Actually my farm was a forest pre-development, and so was my local town. Horrific eh?

Yes farmers do their part at "ruining" environments or ecosystems - of course they do although I'd not call it ruining, I'd just call it changes the use of the land.

I do think people are taking a very short sighted and selfish view of the world. This land that many are talking about being lost, what a load of silliness, the land has been here for millions of years. It has seen changes both man-made and natural. Once we are gone it will change again. I think putting ourselves and our measly short lives on some sort of pedestal is more than arrogant. We are nothing - minions - in the grand scheme of things. This land will be here forever more and yes it will undergo many many changes, as it has done for the past millions of years.

I understand your sentiment, I really do. My house was built in 1875, and is part of what was, in that day, a development of summer homes for wealthy individuals from Baltimore City. Antique "McMansions" if you will.

My problem is this:

I am 15 minutes from Baltimore's inner harbor. On the way to the city, I pass blocks upon blocks of abandoned houses, boarded up, turned into crack dens, and impromptu shelters for the many stray animals that live on the streets of this city. Of course, the crime and filth means no one wants to live in these places. But no one wants to invest in fixing those problems, either. They just want to build more houses in "safer" places (ie, "out in the country"). And developers not only cash in on the concept of "out in the country", but play up on the fear that people here associate with living in the city. (This is the place where you should also understand that I am aware that these are HUGE problems that aren't quick fixes, etc).

My point is, people tend to build, use, *#&$ up, then abandon. The city is forced to maintain plumbing to thousands of abandoned houses because within those blocks of boarded up crack dens, there are pockets of occupied buildings. Taxpayers are forced to pay for the crime committed in those areas, many of which are "lawless". And everyone with half a brain is moving away to some new place to "start fresh". I can't say I blame them, but it's saddening, and angering.

15 or 20 years ago, Baltimore City enstated a program to encourage residents to remodel abandoned homes in "bad" neighborhoods. The city offered these houses for sale for $1, with the stipulation that a certain amount of money be invested into remodeling the buildings (I believe it was in the low six-figures). Houses got snatched up like hotcakes. Crime was nearly eradicated in neighborhoods where it wasn't safe just a few years earlier to walk the streets alone. Schools improved. People CARED about what they had. Today, these neighborhoods are lined with homes that fetch $700,000-$1,000,000 each. They've become "hot-spots" for tourists and locals alike. Great, safe nightlife, neat attractions, etc. They've been recycled.

My point in all of this rambling is this: we HAVE done a lot to land that's already been developed. And in any city, a lot of what we've done has been abandoned. And now, young family's are ready to start fresh "out in the country". How many generations until the cycle repeats itself? Should I be willing to let "out in the country" on MY FARM turn into suburban America?

[ReSomething]

Well, one of the things I noticed happening is that planning commissions will approve small developments over time, that if added piecemeal would have caused consternation and questioning about infrastructure and services in the local populace. In small bites people don't see it, sort of like gaining 2 pounds a year, but then ten years down the road there it is and you have to deal with it.

Yes and in the grand scheme of things the oceans will rise and mountains will fall and all our works will be dust. However in the here and now it takes a tremendous amount of energy to return property to its original state - I'm sitting here with a couple coffee can collection of small debris left over from the removal of the old farmhouse, and a bulldozed mound at the bottom of the ridge, about two dumptrucks full, of soil and farm equipment and wood etc etc. I worry about oils and whatnot escaping from that and contaminating the watershed.

ETA excellent points FFthe EH!

[FrenchFrytheEqHorse]

hey now...what do you have against marching bands?!?!

Lol, a bad one can really ruin a good trail ride!

[Cloverbarley]

They've been recycled.

A similar thing has been happening in Fairmount Park, Philly over the past few years. These beautiful old houses are being refurbished and the areas are starting to be revitalized. It happens, maybe not as quick as us in the here and now would like, but either areas are redeveloped or nature takes them back.

In Europe/the Middle East/Asia/South America, places which have been habitats for humans for thousands of years, there are thousands of villages and towns which have been abandoned for whatever reason. These towns; some have totally disappeared, razed to the ground/decomposed and left for nature reclaim. Some towns are still visible but regardless, nature has still reclaimed them. They are havens for wildlife, plants, insects - everything that we have in non-developed pieces of land.

Jurassic Park - never a truer word spoken - "nature will find a way". It does, it always has done and it always will.

People are focusing on the here and now. I understand that, and appreciate why they are more interested in how it affects them and their daily lives and how it upsets their fond memories of someone else's land use being changed, particularly where they had no say in what happens to that land. I do understand that but really it is no different to what happened to my farm when it was claimed by early settlers and first cultivated almost 200 years ago - a mere second in time - who knows what the future will hold for this tiny hundred acres but one thing is for sure it will not be "lost" it will just change, in the same way as it has changed many times over the millenia.

[ReSomething]

A similar thing has been happening in Fairmount Park, Philly over the past few years. These beautiful old houses are being refurbished and the areas are starting to be revitalized. It happens, maybe not as quick as us in the here and now would like, but either areas are redeveloped or nature takes them back.

In Europe/the Middle East/Asia/South America, places which have been habitats for humans for thousands of years, there are thousands of villages and towns which have been abandoned for whatever reason. These towns; some have totally disappeared, razed to the ground/decomposed and left for nature reclaim. Some towns are still visible but regardless, nature has still reclaimed them. They are havens for wildlife, plants, insects - everything that we have in non-developed pieces of land.

Jurassic Park - never a truer word spoken - "nature will find a way". It does, it always has done and it always will.

People are focusing on the here and now. I understand that, and appreciate why they are more interested in how it affects them and their daily lives and how it upsets their fond memories of someone else's land use being changed, particularly where they had no say in what happens to that land. I do understand that but really it is no different to what happened to my farm when it was claimed by early settlers and first cultivated almost 200 years ago - a mere second in time - who knows what the future will hold for this tiny hundred acres but one thing is for sure it will not be "lost" it will just change, in the same way as it has changed many times over the millenia.

Rather a bit long term for my tastes, as I doubt I will be here millenia from now. Nor my descendants, possibly replaced by something more evolved, or cockroaches.

[HeartofGlass]

That's exactly what our township was planning to do with the 20 wooded acres next to our subdivision. By "next to", I mean right across the street!

The 20 acres are just lovely. There are 3 houses on them and a beautiful pond. It is very hilly, with many old-growth trees. There is one old tree that is probably 300-400 years old. It is huge.

There are coyotes, foxes, owls and who knows what else living there. I hear the owls hoot and coyotes howl at night, and filmed a coyote walking around the neighborhood a few months ago. There is even a tom turkey that lives at one end of our street, at the edge of the woods.

Our little city was going to bulldoze the whole thing and build 77---I repeat, 77 houses on it!!! They would all be miniature McMansions with tiny lots and skinny streets to make it all fit. I guess they were going to bulldoze the hills to make them flat.

We fought and fought for months to stop it, and finally succeeded. What saved us was that they needed a zoning change to do it legally.

This all happened right before the housing market crashed. So if they had gone through with the project, it would have been a giant mud pit and a financial fiasco for the city.

Every day we walk our dogs over there, and I thank God that the woods are still there. Yes, I suppose it will be developed some day. But they need to come up with an intelligent plan, not a god-awful one!

This is in St. Louis county, btw--it used to be farmland far away from the city. Now we are imbedded in St. Louis. There are a couple of farm remnants that board horses down the street from us, but I suppose someone will eventually snap those up and build houses. Sad.

I can't wait to move out to the country some day.

And when it comes to "moving out to the country", I have looked and looked, and you have to go pretty far out from St. Louis to find land cheap enough that I could afford. I need a job to pay for it, but can't find land close enough where I could keep the job.

I like the idea of revitalizing the downtown areas. Some of that has been done in downtown St. Louis with good results.

Seriously?
There is a huge difference between responsible land and heritage stewardship and the "wannabe" farmer, who frequently comes in and does as the previous poster described. Mature trees take decades or even hundreds of years to grow, and to wipe that all out in one afternoon, as one of my former neighbours did as well, IS irresponsible. This is how species (plant or animal) are eradicated; wholesale clearing without any regard for impact on erosion, wildlife, etc. Some asshat did that in my community; cleared 11 acres of woodland with a spring in it for a subdivision. That land has now sat for two years, with a great deal of erosion, scrub plants and weeds growing where before there were mature trees. There are four brand new houses on the corner of the property which are brand new and have been vacant since they were built two years ago. But, it is his "right" to do that, no?!
If you want things a certain way, instead of being destructive, perhaps buying a vacant tract of land and building a McMansion there is a better option.
Besides, the land is important as well for our very survival -the disappearance of arable farmland means that much less space to grow the food we eat. What happens when the land is gone?

[pony grandma]

That 20 acres sounds lovely!

I just have to chime back in here. There is a HUGE difference between crappy development and respectuful development. I have surprised myself I was roaming some countryside and happened to come upon some gorgeous golf courses - out in the middle of nowhere! They left 90% of the land natural!! They used the features of the land to make their course unique. Talk about that dream about riding across a golf course!

The big town near me - they tore down the old lady house with the dairy barn behind it to put up a bank and a Grease Monkey. The house would have made a charming (and I am not into cutesy) local restaurant and the barn and sheds could have been shops. They could have left the grove of trees for god's sake!

I lived in a post war development town growing up. They used the old dairy barn to make a youth center, the old house they fixed up for the park district offices, the fields became ball fields, the old garage a warming house for the ice rink that they made each winter in the parking lot. They left the orchard there. They had bands and picnics there every summer. It was a wonderful place for everyone to enjoy!

A lot can be said for just plain having good taste too! The new developments look like hor'douvre trays. Stacks of canapes on cracker lots, all curved around the retention pond (bowl of dip). Not my idea of visual wonder!

[HeartofGlass]

Lol! You are right, that is exactly what they look like!

Our neighborhood sounds kind of like your golf course. It is like a park. The roads curve around the contours of the land. Each house was custom-built and unique and the lots are large. They just don't make neighborhoods like this anymore--it takes too much land.

The houses aren't expensive; since we are in the dreaded "North County" the houses on my street go for around $120,000 to $180,000. The mini-McMansions were going to cost at least $350,000 each. If people want that kind of house at that price, they go to St. Charles or St. Peters, not north county.

And they were going to just bulldoze everything flat--no more character to the land at all. They might as well have built on a parking lot.

I am determined to make it out of the suburbs somehow. I have to wait until my daughter graduates from high school, but she is a senior, so I am counting the months!

Oh, to make this horse related---we board our horses in Wentzville, in an area about 30 miles west of St. Louis. I've looked at land there and it is really expensive there, too. But there is still a fair amount of open land. The commute is not great, but is doable. So I'm on the hunt for a few acres...

[Frank B]

It's yet another symptom of a problem to few are willing to address, especially politicians -- this world is grossly over-populated! And it's getting worse.

[SarahandSam]

Oh noooooooo! I didn't think about marching bands! I don't want to trail ride to crickets chirping and the breeze in the pines and someone experimenting with a SOUSAPHONE! Nooooo!

Today my pony and I stood on the tallest rise in the hay meadow, staring sadly down at the construction site, with a giant red-tailed hawk perched on the hay wagon next to us. I felt like all the corny paintings of the Indian standing on the ridge mournfully watching his ancestral lands destroyed... sigh.

[Rallycairn]

It's yet another symptom of a problem to few are willing to address, especially politicians -- this world is grossly over-populated! And it's getting worse.

And yet because a FEW European countries are thought to be set to see a slight population decline we are all supposed to not be concerned about global overpopulation .

[JSwan]

I know conservation easements have great tax benefits -- I'm not sure about tax breaks one that would protect a working farm... anyway, just an idea!

I spent most of my career in conservation, and worked on plenty of easements. What Bluey wrote is correct.

Laypeople use the word "easement" as if it some sort of blanket protection for land.

It isn't. An easement is merely a right of use of the property of another. Easements, particularly conservation easements, can be donated or purchased, and the rights conveyed are up to the landowner and easement holder.

That will vary on each transaction. So will the tax benefits. Dramatically.

It is not only possible for a conservation org to sell the land and develop it, it happens all the time. The conservation buyer program, preserve shave-offs, abandoning the easement, transferring the easement - all kinds of things happen with easements.

It is a highly complex area of law and is not something to be entered into lightly.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a conservation easement, but it is a myth that the land is protected in perpetuity. The only time a conservation org is going to be interested in something like that is if the property is natural area quality. And even then, with modern conservation, only a core area is going to be of interest to the conservation org - the rest may be sold, transferred, developed, protected - whatever.

Very tricky area - highly complex - a fantastic tool that produces great results - but it's not necessarily so great for all landowners.

[foundationmare]

I'll admit to not having read all of the posts, but I think I get the gist! I live in an area of the country that is touristy because of it's natural beauty and burgeoning wine industry.

The Finger Lakes region of central New York State is, even to those of us who just live here and take it for granted, a spectacularly scenic region. We have a variety of lifestyle options, including cities and very rural, undeveloped areas. Our lakes are mostly pristine and, in the case of Seneca and Cayuga Lakes, rather deep and large.

I grew up on the east side of Seneca Lake, the deepest of the Finger Lakes, and have great fondness for its waters and shores. My mother still lives on the eastside and I have many, many happy memories of my childhood growing up there.

We are now facing hydrofracking for natural gas and it is a portentous matter. We already have a ginormous landfill in an adjacent county, and they are looking to expand.

I totally get that accomodations have to be made for the needs of modern society, but why the hell do they have to spoil the most beautiful corners of our globe? Yes, that is a rhetorical question.

On my ride to my boarding barn, I face a vista of farmers' fields, rollings hills, just beautiful, countryside that is being defaced by developers who are building ugly McMansions. The wildlife is on the run looking for appropriate, safe habitat that is increasingly difficult to find. They are often reduced to roadkill. I am so sorry and sad for the wildlife who are trying to acclimate to their changing environment. They don't stand a chance, because it's far more important that so and so has a quarter acre new build for a quarter-mil that once was habitat for indigenous wildlife.

My boarding barn is casual and is located on a rural country road, surrounded by beauty. The developers have taken over. My BO found out recently that the area directly kitty-corner to her barn and little homestead was going to become a freaking gas station! Fortunately the town zoning board nixed the plan, but OMFG, it will be revisited eventually. This is a young couple who take great pride in their little farm but would sell in a heart beat if they had a gas station/convenience store across the road from them. And of course, there would spring more McMansions in that place.

[Luvinfoofy]

JSwan, you seem to know much more about this than I do, so just out of curiosity...

Say I sell a permanent conservation easement on my property that forbids development, mining, etc. but allows my heirs to keep the property and use it for hunting/fishing/camping.

So, in 100 years I'm long gone and someone wants to build a housing development. How would they go about nullifying the easement? I have noticed that sometimes people call an easement permanent but the dead really says "99 years", but that isn't always the case. ??

[Huntertwo]

Go to Around the Farm forum and there are constant threads on how to eradicate native wildlife in the area.

These are the exact thread that make me go WTF?? You moved to the country and now you feel entitled to kill anything that trespasses on your property that was originally inhabited by said wildlife??

[Huntertwo]

That stinks! I have been so happy since the the economy tanked - no new housing starts around here.

Rather a selfish statement considering many Construction workers and any trade workers involved in the building business are barely scraping by in today's economy. IF they are still employed at all.

[foundationmare]

Well, Huntertwo, that depends on where the new development is happening. Sorry that your source of income is reduced, even eradicated, but please understand that there are bigger....and more permanent....issues that address the intractible impact of environmental change. Our Earth is shrinking and I strongly feel that we must be mindful of how our footprint impacts our environment and the critters who inhabit it.

[sketcher]

These are the exact thread that make me go WTF?? You moved to the country and now you feel entitled to kill anything that trespasses on your property that was originally inhabited by said wildlife??

So you have a problem with the people who don't want the wildlife on their property but you think it is selfish to feel relieved that the rampant and uncontrolled building which put those homes there in the first place slows down due to the economy? Tying that sentiment to making it seem someone is grateful people are unemployed is a bit of a stretch.

I'm glad the ridiculous building has stopped as well. Maybe people can learn to be happy with buying a house which already exists rather than to continually have something new.