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NAIS

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  • #41
    With powerful computers for their use, the government bean counters will keep inventing all ways to count everything in sight.
    I doubt that they are really trying to dominate everyone, just get the numbers and everything classified and compiled.
    I talked to some of them when these programs started and they were very surprised that these statistical programs were receiving so much controversy and could not see why.

    Now, what the rest of us may do with that information, that is up to our imaginations.

    Some will be for good, when we know more what the markets are for our products and where our sources are and all the details on them.
    Others may see more sinister uses.

    Right now, the reality is that NAIS is but one more use of computers by the bean counters in the employ of the goverment.

    Comment


    • #42
      Was this the Agricultural Census thing? I filled it out, big deal. I'm not a "slippery slope" type of person. If they want to count my chickens (although I don't have any) that's fine with me.
      Click here before you buy.

      Comment


      • #43
        chips, tracking, lists etc.
        do horses pass mad cow?? yeah , right
        just remember this can lead to taxes, taxes,taxes
        cuz they have to pay to follow where you show your horse, taxes cuz they figured out you sold your horse and of course taxes if you keep it cuz it is real and valuable property ( and most states need $$)
        I can explain it TO you,but I can't understand it FOR you

        Comment


        • #44
          No NAIS, no REAL-ID, yes Ron Paul.

          That's really all there is is to say on the matter.

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by Bluey View Post
            With powerful computers for their use, the government bean counters will keep inventing all ways to count everything in sight.
            I doubt that they are really trying to dominate everyone, just get the numbers and everything classified and compiled.
            I talked to some of them when these programs started and they were very surprised that these statistical programs were receiving so much controversy and could not see why.

            Now, what the rest of us may do with that information, that is up to our imaginations.

            Some will be for good, when we know more what the markets are for our products and where our sources are and all the details on them.
            Others may see more sinister uses.

            Right now, the reality is that NAIS is but one more use of computers by the bean counters in the employ of the goverment.
            My Social Security card says Not for Identification... I really do trust them one more bit

            Comment


            • #46
              Of course, NAIS is not just a horse issue. It's of great concern to small farmers, who will have to pay to register and track every farm animal and take the time to do so. It's likely that the costs of the program will drive many out of business. Organic farmers in particular are also concerned that the program will be used to confine their animals and they will then lose their organic status. Many believe (and I agree with them) that this has everything to do with agribusiness and nothing at all to do with animal or human welfare.
              The aids are the legs, the hands, the weight of the rider, the whip, the caress, the voice and the use of extraneous circumstances. ~ General Decarpentry
              www.reflectionsonriding.com

              Comment


              • #47
                Originally posted by Blueskidoo View Post
                No NAIS, no REAL-ID, yes Ron Paul.

                That's really all there is is to say on the matter.
                Ditto!
                \"For all those men who say, \"Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free,\" here\'s an update for you: Nowadays 80% of women are against marriage. Why? Because women realize it\'s not worth buying an entire pig just to get a little sausage.\"-

                Comment


                • #48
                  Update on my former BO who got the census...

                  She called the 800 number and asked them how they got her name/address, etc. They could not/would not tell her.

                  They went around a bit about this.

                  Then, finally, she told them she was opposed to NAIS and did not want to fill it out.

                  They told her that if she did not *return* the form that they would resend it, start calling her, etc. BUT that she could write on the form that she was opposed and return it, and they would accept that. So she did.

                  So now we wait and see what happens.
                  "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                  ---
                  The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    USDA Plans to Use Breed Registries to Implement NAIS

                    USDA Plans to Use Breed Registries to Implement NAIS

                    USDA plans to use breed associations to force NAIS registrations, beginning as early as March 2008, less than two months from now. USDA's Business Plan calls for breed registries to start using an official Animal Identification Number, or "AIN" in their registry. And since you must first register your property in NAIS before you can obtain an AIN, this could effectively implement the first two stages of NAIS for anyone in those registries!
                    The breed registries for cattle, horses, sheep, and goats are potential targets, but the Plan does not indicate which breed registries have agreed to implement NAIS.

                    Take Action: Contact your breed association or other livestock registry and find out if it will be implementing USDA's Plan.

                    Ask the registry:

                    Do you plan to require members to use the USDA's 15-digit Animal Identification Number (AIN) to enter or maintain animals in your registry?
                    Do you plan to require members to use the State's or USDA's premises registration system in order to obtain a breed registration number?
                    Can you please confirm the registry's intentions in writing?
                    Tell them that you do not want them to be a tool for implementing the government's plan for NAIS!

                    Next Steps:

                    If they plan to force their members into NAIS, consider finding another association to meet your needs if possible. If you do leave your association, be sure to tell them why.
                    Spread the word! If you find out that your breed association plans to force NAIS on its members, tell all the people you know who are in that association or considering joining. Post to the online groups that focus on your type of animal. Let people know how the association is working against the best interests of its members.
                    Email us to let us know what your breed association says. We'll post a list of organizations that are requiring NAIS and those that aren't.


                    More Information

                    The USDA published its Business Plan in December of last year. You can download the Plan at http://farmandranchfreedom.org/conte...ment-documents. The Plan sets aggressive targets for implementation of NAIS. One of the strategies for achieving those goals is "harmonization" among various systems that already use individual identification. Harmonization involves changing the existing programs so they use the NAIS-compliant Animal Identification Numbers (AIN's). (Plan, pp.28-29).

                    As part of its harmonization strategy, USDA lists having breed registries begin using NAIS AIN's in March 2008, less than two months from now. (Plan, p.52). The AIN is a 15-digit internationally unique identification number. It starts with "840" which identifies the animal as coming from the US. (Plan, p.30). In order to get an AIN under NAIS, you have to register your property ("premises registration" under the NAIS plan). The legal effect of this registration is unknown, because there has been nothing like it before - permanent federal registration of citizens' property, linked to an issue (animal ownership) that carries potential liabilities.

                    With this harmonization strategy, USDA plans to use our private associations to force livestock, poultry, and horse owners to register their property and tag their animals under a government program, despite the continued protests of animal owners across the country.

                    Contacts for more information


                    Liberty Ark Supporters: The Liberty Ark email system is still down. You can contact the Coalition by emailing one of the Steering Committee members, Karin Bergener, at bergener@config.com or calling her at 330-298-0065.

                    FARFA List: As always, you can reach us at info@farmandranchfreedom.org or 866-687-6452 with any questions.


                    Working together, we can make our voices heard.

                    Judith McGeary
                    Farm and Ranch Freedom Alliance
                    www.farmandranchfreedom.org
                    866-687-6452
                    Gisela Swift
                    http://www.naisinfocentral.net

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      I wonder if Americans will be surprised when their food prices go up even more.

                      Or they bite into a piece of meat and get microchip instead. Remember the recall of all that pork because of glass from shattered chips? Guess that didn't make the mainstream press.

                      The whole tracking of hay is just absolutely and completely astounding. We can't find Osama bin Laden, and can't seem to keep anyone from crossing our borders illegally - but we simply MUST know where dead grass is being shipped to.

                      Truth is stranger than fiction.
                      Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                      Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                      -Rudyard Kipling

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        I remember reading about this NAIS thing last year and thinking, "Nah, there's no way something this ridiculous will come to pass." I shrugged it off because I thought it wouldn't get very far.

                        Obviously, my inaction (and the inaction of others like me) had serious consequences.

                        Now my tinfoil hat is three layers thick and reinforced with duct tape. I'm starting an action group with other folks from my barn, and hopefully it's not too late. Wish I would have taken this seriously a little earlier. I tell you, I will be in JAIL before I register my premises, microchip my horse, and report my every move to the government.

                        No NAIS.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Been a while since I checked the MS state implementation progress, guess what?

                          They have begun to implement equines! http://www.mbah.state.ms.us/AnimalID/horsebrochure.pdf

                          They have managed to ask for registration with out mentioning NAIS, how clever is that?

                          For the longest time it was just cattle implementation. Oh crap!

                          Maybe all we are left with is Civil Disobedience so I think I will quote Henry David Thoreau:

                          Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also a prison.
                          Unjust laws exist: shall we be content to obey them, or shall we endeavour to amend them, and obey them until we have succeeded, or shall we transgress them at once.
                          I heartily accept the motto - 'That government is best which governs least;' and I should like to see it acted up to more rapidly and systematically. Carried out it finally amounts to this, which also I believe, - 'That government is best which governs not at all' .....
                          No hour of life is wasted that is spent in the saddle. ~Winston Churchill

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            I wonder if the folks breeding rare and endangered breeds are going to have a tough time.

                            Not horses specifically; but I know DB is involved with the Livestock Breed Conservancy; and we have been working on plans for small scale production of rare breeds (chickens). In our case - we just can't make the numbers work. And that's not even factoring the costs of NAIS.

                            Even around here - which is still farming country - do you know that hardly any farmer has heard of NAIS? Still? Isn't that astonishing? I think it's going to be a big huge shock to a lot of folks - especially those farmers who are having a tough time making ends meet already.

                            So let's see. About 1% of American citizens actively farm. I think that number will go down a bit further.

                            The concept of NAIS wasn't really that bad - initially. I mean, we have scrapie programs and other disease control programs and merging them, in principle, made a lot of sense. But this......... egad. And I'm thinking that it's already too late to do anything about it - I mean - folks have been arrested already.
                            Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                            Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                            -Rudyard Kipling

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Sometimes though, once a "non believe" sees the light, that could have a chain reaction on other "non believer" in their circle.

                              It's never too late!
                              Gisela Swift
                              http://www.naisinfocentral.net

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by J Swan View Post
                                Even around here - which is still farming country - do you know that hardly any farmer has heard of NAIS? Still? Isn't that astonishing? I think it's going to be a big huge shock to a lot of folks - especially those farmers who are having a tough time making ends meet already.
                                My hay supplier who also raises cattle and chickens seems to feel NAIS will be a good thing for him and will help prevent cattle theft. That seems to be a major concern for him. I am not so sure that will work as he thinks it might.

                                I am not sure it will have any effect on rare horse breeds as you said but yes, I think we might well see a decrease in many of the endangered cattle, swine and fowl as the smaller operations are forced to spend even more on the animals with poor profit margins as it is.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Yeah - I'm trying to figure out how I can make a profit off a dozen eggs that cost about 2$ in the grocery store - if it cost me 15$ to produce them.

                                  I hear that "theft" prevention thing from a lot of horse people. They don't seem to realize that the only thing that is going to appear is the premises ID number. The information behind the ID number will not be available to law enforcement or ACO's - the very people who would be trying to identify a lost or stolen animal.

                                  On the other hand - since the USDA keeps getting failing grades on data security, perhaps the information won't be private for very long.
                                  Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                                  Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                                  -Rudyard Kipling

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Agricultural Census

                                    I don't think the census is directly related to the NAIS. Seems to me that I have filled this out several times now... About once every other year.

                                    It is a very frustrating form because it asks all kinds of questions about breed, age and value and related medical/ equipment expenses for all the horses on my property. The majority of those horses don't belong to me, and I'm not about to ask my boarders what they spent to buy their horses *or* what they spend on tack and horse treats over a year.

                                    So... I guess, and I'm sure I guess very badly. If all the people that fill out these surveys do it with as much accuracy as I do, then the data collected isn't worth bupkiss.

                                    As to the NAIS... I've gotten a form requesting that I register my farm. I want NO part of this. The way this is currently planned, it will be easier and less fuss to own an AK-47 (or a dozen assorted automatic and semi-automatic weapons) than have a chicken or two.

                                    It will make holding a horse show or owning a boarding stable a real feast of ceaseless paperwork (with substantial fines for any errors) and make taking the horses out on the road for a nice carriage drive a potentially indictable offense. And can you make that emergency run to the vet clinic without fear of prosecution? (You didn't give 24-hours notice!)

                                    And then there is the Real-ID act, bringing a similar experience to your very own wallet, courtesy of your state's DMV. It's only a matter of time before we start chipping our children.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by jgrass View Post
                                      I don't think the census is directly related to the NAIS. Seems to me that I have filled this out several times now... About once every other year.

                                      .
                                      they are every five years

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by clanter View Post
                                        they are every five years
                                        I have been getting a farm census every year for some 30+ years, that I remember, may have been longer and one general census one every ten years, asking many other questions.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          I've gotten the census before too - I never had a problem with it.

                                          This time I do - because of what the USDA has been doing with the information from surveys and other material they get from us. They've been taking information and signing people up for NAIS without their knowledge; then using the "voluntary compliance" as proof that farmers support NAIS.

                                          So I admit to being more than a little paranoid about this census. I wish the USDA would put this much thought and effort and money into enforcing their regulations on safety and humane treatment and transport, and not on worrying about terrorist chickens.
                                          Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                                          Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                                          -Rudyard Kipling

                                          Comment

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