Spinoff - sick friend euthanizing.......

[DLee]

I think we're all entitled to our own definition of 'reasonable' and I'll leave it at that.

[ayrabz]

saultgirl
sooo, I'm guessing you're kidding? (sarcasm?)
it was pretty clear text...& pretty clear in point----

[SaturdayNightLive]

saultgirl
sooo, I'm guessing you're kidding? (sarcasm?)
it was pretty clear text...& pretty clear in point----

I have to say, I was pretty insulted by it too. The implication that because I'll sell a horse that doesn't fit my competition goals I must not love my horses like a "real owner" does is obnoxious.

Edited to add: I'm insulted by ayrabz previous post, the one saultgirl was responding to.

[tradewind]

As usual coming to the party late...I have 4 horses, 3 at home, 1 at a great boarding facility..The three I have at home are all pasture pets, and if something was to happen to me my husband knows they are to be euthanized. I have a 32 year old pony who has a righ knee that is arthritic, a left shoulder that is, and some normal old age stuff. Not rideable at all anymore, but she has been in my family forever so she will be loved until she or I go..Horse number 2 8 yr old TB with a knee that is beyond description..Pasture sound but no one knows why and I am not joking. Chips, old fracture, cysts..but he runs around sound 95 percent of the time...Was a foster horse, I adopted when they changed their foster care set up...Horse 3 adopted Tb with serious stifle issues...3 years of vet care, rehab training etc, still messed up, ridable sort of....My husband does not have the skill set, time etc to do all that is required for them. So therefore we talked and if he can not handle it, this is what is to be done. None of them have any kind of future realistically. Horse number 4, adopted Tb will go back to the rescue or stay with my trainer..he has some issues from a very lengthy and successful career but he is serviceably sound for lower level stuff, has a dynamite dispostion and would make alot of people happy. I don't believe in putting healthy horses down, but the three that I have at home are all extremely high risk placements, and they have been way to good to me and for me to have them end up in a really bad place if anything were to happen to me.. I don't pretend to know what is right for anybodies horses other than mine, but after careful thought I do believe I have made the right decision for mine.

[asb_own_me]

I have a mare I would not give away, her habits are just the kind of thing that leads to the auction and eventually the KB. Her ad would read as follows: 25 yr old Arab mare. Weaves in her stall, and occasionally the tie rail. Completely unfocused when in season, even with Mare Magic. Arthritic with bony changes, serviceably sound on supplements and bute. Not for a beginner, as you never know when she will spook at the rail or trail. Hates arena work. Recovering from strained suspensory. Vet feels her trotting and cantering days are over. Hates to get into the trailer. Doesn't like change, either personally or around her.

Great trail horse though! Very sweet.


If faced with euthanizing or giving her away, I would choose euthanasia.

I was ROFL-ing - and sadly shaking my head - at your "ad". Made me think of what mine would be:

15 yr old ASB mare. Complete pig in the stall, and kicks stall walls violently. Aggressive to other horses in turnout. Rearer. Hard heats leave her irritable, squirting at anything in sight, and sometimes trying to be romantic with the nearest fencepost. Arthritic changes, even when she was sound it felt like riding a jackhammer. Arthritic changes and increasing discomfort led to her retirement 3 years ago. Rearer. Enjoys trying to break her hip in trailers, and breaks out in hives every spring from bugs despite gallons of bug spray and our repeated attempts to make her wear fly sheets, which she promptly destroys. Rearer. Insulin resistant...and resistant to taking her meds. Did I mention she is a rearer?

OTOH, she's really good to bathe, clip, shoe, and vet. And she was a Reserve World Champion in 2006.

Yeah, if I were some random person I'd want to snap her right up. NOT.

[saultgirl]

saultgirl
sooo, I'm guessing you're kidding? (sarcasm?)
it was pretty clear text...& pretty clear in point----

No, I'm honestly asking, where does this idea come from? It's tremendously uncommon, so does this idea come from a particular trainer, or other horse person who was signficant in your life? Is there a story behind it, or is this a conclusion you've come to on your own?

[ayrabz]

Whoa, SNL....I never made any comment about selling one, finding that correct home for them FIRST, and THEN moving on as being something I was against.
This thread came as a spin off from a situation where an owner had decided to EUTH her horseSSS.....(was it four? five? I don't recall)
My input was about AFFORDING FOR ONE what comes about for them, before adding MORE to your 'herd' and then finding yourself in a bind where you cannot possibly do so....
I have nothing against selling a horse, and moving on if that is what is best for horse and for you.
Not caring for the FIRST one in a complete way, (again, I don't care if its selling to a better suited home, or retireing it on your farm, giving it away to a situation better for it, or WHAT....just that OWNERSHIP comes with that responsibility in my book) BEFORE moving on to the 'next one' if you cannot afford the first one's needs.

Saultgirl...does that help clear it up? I don't have a trainer, or a teacher, or a barn manager that instilled that in me. Guess it was my belief in commitment to an animal....and knowing a lot comes down the pike in expenses, and I knew/figured my limits in what I could truly see a horse through, financially.



JMHO

[saultgirl]

Ok I misunderstood, I thought we were talking about it being wrong to sell a horse....

[danceronice]

Ok I misunderstood, I thought we were talking about it being wrong to sell a horse....

No, there was. There was a side exchange because someone brought up having seen a sales barn/local auction where the same 'packers' would go through every so often as they went from owner to owner--parents buy packer from broker for kid, kid outgrows packer, parents bring it back, broker sells packer to new family, lather rinse repeat. The idea of selling on a horse you've outgrown is something several of us were familiar with--it's not really anything a trainer teachers, just why would you keep a horse or pony you don't need when someone else could be riding and enjoying them? Especially where there's a horse "community", however loose-knit, where you see the same horses go from owner to owner. It also does inadvertently head off situations where someone has five horses they can't really afford and is worrying about what they're going to do with them all.

[ayrabz]

sault: no harm, no foul. Just glad my intent is better clarified.
dancer: not sure? what you meant, but I wasn't at all making any point based on the added "side" exchange as you put it about auction houses, etc, etc. My comment had nothing to do with ? that exchange...was only about not believing in Euthing a 'collection' of horses because things got out of hand in providing for them. I believe in not getting into that 'collective' situation unless you can indeed provide come what may, for each one you purchase.

sheesh. I really don't think its an 'out there' concept.

[mvp]

I think every one agrees on two things:

1) Don't euthanize a non-suffering horse that you can't or don't want to feed until you have exhausted every possible avenue toward a decent home for it.

2) Therefore, of course we are all talking about useful horses!

But the problem comes in the definition of "useful" or "attractive enough for another owner."

Simply being alive and manageable on the ground isn't "useful" enough for most people looking to acquire a new horse. Some of the time it is enough. But I think the market for full-size horse pasture mates has really shriveled up in the past couple of years.

The moral of the story is to please take whatever horse you have and put in the training needed to help him get a decent job. It's a good insurance policy for a horse.

[Thomas_1]

The moral of the story is to please take whatever horse you have and put in the training needed to help him get a decent job. It's a good insurance policy for a horse.

BINGO!!!!

You hit the nail on the head.

You win the prize.

I'd a woman phone me up asking if I could find buyers for 5 of her horses. One mare about 20 with really bad upward patella fixation and I'm thinking secondary joint disease in it's stifles and hocks. 2, home breds from the former lame old FUgly mare, took on all her conformation traits! less than 3 years old with appalling ground manners. 1 older one about 9 from the elderly mare and unrideable because of bone spavin. 1, 7 years old had been backed and was sound but hadn't been ridden for nearly a year.

I told her I couldn't work miracles!

Personally speaking I don't understand why anyone would keep a collection of pasture ornaments without making darned good provision for them and without ensuring they've a shed load of money and a contingency plan to care for them.

I pared right down commencing 15 years ago and due to my bad health and cancer diagnosis. It's not impossible to do if you've got serviceable sound trained horses. It takes some organising and time of course but it's entirely doable.

If you're a collector and user and never invest to improve and you never bother to curtail your habit then you're going to have a problem.

[Lori B]

Or more to the point, Thomas, if one is a collector who doesn't plan ahead, YOUR ANIMALS and your family and friends are going to have a problem when the inevitable happens. Some other poor sod gets to clean up after you, more than likely.

Our animals are totally and completely subject to whether we are conscientious and save for rainy days (and there will ALWAYS be rainy days) and think of their wellbeing if everything goes pear-shaped. There is no mystery about this. None.

So take a moment to contemplate the inevitability of your demise, and start to plan accordingly. Save money. Don't breed animals that you are not going to train and which won't be able to get themselves a decent home (untrained, unhandled, etc.) if you are no longer able to care for them.

The reason I may seem like I don't have a lot of sympathy for the OP's friend's cancer diagnosis freakout is that I don't. We are all going to die. We would like to die quickly at 94 in our beds, asleep of a heart attack. But if you have even a passing familiarity with the newspaper or actuarial tables, you know that's not likely to be how you die.

The animal problem is just one special version of "my older family member died, didn't leave a will, left their affairs an unholy mess, and now one or more other family members has to spend time, money, and sanity untangling it all." And doing that is just the last way to be obnoxious to your friends and relatives after (or as) you die. Don't. Do. It. It's a nasty thing to do to your family, and is likely to be fatal to your pets, particularly if they include horses.

[cowgirljenn]

The moral of the story is to please take whatever horse you have and put in the training needed to help him get a decent job. It's a good insurance policy for a horse.

Thank you!!!

People probably get sick of me saying things like this, but... it is the truth. I have a ton of horses in the rescue who are hard to place, because they came to us with no handling. These are neglect cases, and in some cases the owners were trying to sell or give their horses away before we helped the sheriff's office remove them. But when they have NO skills, they have few options.

[dkcbr]

In the abstract, it almost makes sense to euthanize rather than place. I do, however, think it is carrying good intentions to an uber-extreme.

I think some of the angst around selling or giving away a sound, sensible, easy-keeping, useful, "dream horse" type to a good home at age 12 (for example) is that 10-15 years down the road there is a virtual certainty this horse will NOT be sound and useful. And the seller has of course lost control of that final home, which may or may not be with the good home to which the horse was sold.

Actually, I own that horse, and I wonder every day if I would feel guilty if I sold her. Not that I have immediate plans to do so, but in this economy and/or if I had a health issue......who knows.

All of that said, I have had phenomenal luck in the horses I've sold over the years. Most are with their original owners or passed away with their original owner. Until the advent of the internet and bulletin boards with all the horror stories, I'd never really contemplated that selling was A Bad Thing.