• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 2/8/18)
See more
See less

Spinoff - sick friend euthanizing.......

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Originally posted by carolprudm View Post
    JMHO but is sending them to slaughter more ethical than PTS on the farm?

    Obviously slaughter is more cost effective and less wasteful but it seems that the vet is just giving the job to someone else.

    I would NEVER EVER send an animal to slaughter!!!!!! That's a horrible way to end up dying IMO.

    Cost effective ya but in my opinion not ethical!!!

    Yes I do eat meat, hunt and use/wear leather. To me its how the animal dies. No creature deserves to suffer in death. It should be painless.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Miss J View Post
      I would NEVER EVER send an animal to slaughter!!!!!! That's a horrible way to end up dying IMO.

      Cost effective ya but in my opinion not ethical!!!

      Yes I do eat meat, hunt and use/wear leather. To me its how the animal dies. No creature deserves to suffer in death. It should be painless.
      Um, you do realize that the meat you eat and the leather you use comes from animals that have been slaughtered, right?
      "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
      -George Morris

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Miss J View Post
        I would NEVER EVER send an animal to slaughter!!!!!! That's a horrible way to end up dying IMO.

        Cost effective ya but in my opinion not ethical!!!

        Yes I do eat meat, hunt and use/wear leather. To me its how the animal dies. No creature deserves to suffer in death. It should be painless.
        Do you go look at how cattle and pigs die? Source all your meat from places that individually hand-slaughter each one? Ever deer hunted and walked up to one who wasn't quite finished dying? No system is perfect--if you eat meat and wear leather, at some point in the supply chain an animal was at bare minimum uncomfortable at some point, and the deaths are meant to be as quick and painless *as possible*. But accidents happen.
        Author Page
        Like Omens In the Night on Facebook
        Steampunk Sweethearts

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Iron Horse Farm View Post
          Sooo, I am a bit touchy about the subject, but truly feel that I practice what I preach. I am willing to take back anything that I have sold. And ask anyone at the clinic that I work at and they will tll you that I have SUCKER stamped on my forehead.............and a very good hubby!
          I can understand your point of view and it's sad what people call trash. And I do think its awesome that you will take anything you have sold back. More breeders need to follow that example. Even if I were a stallion owner I would feel responsible for that foal. And with all the horses people bring to slaughter I would not want that on my head, knowing that i've contributed to the problem. And that is why I am not a breeder. Couldn't handle the what happened to....

          I am what my friends and understanding SO call an animal physcho!!! If I were a breeder or dealer I would suck so bad at it because I wouldn't be able to part with them!!
          Or if I worked at a shelter/clinic, I would take home all the animals that weren't good enough for other people!
          I am not allowed to go to the shelter unsupervised...or an auction......it is that bad.

          But I can understand as to why some people would choose to put down certain pets rather than to rehome them.....I truly can.....

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by danceronice View Post
            Do you go look at how cattle and pigs die? Source all your meat from places that individually hand-slaughter each one? Ever deer hunted and walked up to one who wasn't quite finished dying? No system is perfect--if you eat meat and wear leather, at some point in the supply chain an animal was at bare minimum uncomfortable at some point, and the deaths are meant to be as quick and painless *as possible*. But accidents happen.
            Hey both my grandparents were farmers I do know what happens, but I was always taught to be very aware and sensitive to an animals needs during its life and during its death.

            For that reason I don't buy my meats and eggs(beef/chicken/pork) from super markets, I buy them from my nieghbor and family who I know has very ethical slaughter practices(small scale farm) But that isn't to say there has been some sort of delay or mis-fire in death. But I think its better than getting my meat from a place I know is high production, cramped quarters and god know what else.....

            Yes I have seen a deer take a few minutes to die, yes it is not pretty, and I don't like that, and for me the bigger picture I like to have is that the animal that is dieing for me has had a better life than those factory farmed animals......

            I get what you are saying...no system is perfect....so I do the best I can with what I have or know.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by SaturdayNightLive View Post
              Um, you do realize that the meat you eat and the leather you use comes from animals that have been slaughtered, right?
              And where does my meat come from?

              all animals that have died get slaughtered. I wouldn't send my animals to a slaughter house, is maybe what I should have said. I do it myself or its euthanasia...and my first comment was directed about horses...but no I would not send my horses to the slaughter house to be slaughtered.

              Comment


              • #67
                If there were more local facilities (which is likely more what Thomas has in mind as he's in the UK) would you do it then? It used to be you called the knacker or took them to the local slaughterhouse (which you still can some places overseas.) Or at least not object to others doing it?
                Author Page
                Like Omens In the Night on Facebook
                Steampunk Sweethearts

                Comment


                • #68
                  We do have a local facility, but since I have a friend and family that I can buy my meat from, I don't use them...although I have never seen the facility or how it operates so I do not know....

                  My biggest thought is that any animal whether it be a horse, mouse, or cow deserves a quick and painless death, and as less trauma as possible.....like not sending them on a big rig packed with animals, and then to the slaughter house where they can hear, smell and taste death....IMO I don't like that and don't agree with it.....who wants that for an animal?? Again these are my personal feelings on it.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    I don't like the rides, either, which is where I think the NIMBY anti-slaughter folks who got the rules changed made matters worse. (Though I don't buy the 'hear/smell/taste death' stuff, that's anthropomorphising. With the possible exception of the highly intelligent pigs, the animals have no idea what's going on, just that it's crowded and they're being funneled somewhere.)
                    Author Page
                    Like Omens In the Night on Facebook
                    Steampunk Sweethearts

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by danceronice View Post
                      I don't like the rides, either, which is where I think the NIMBY anti-slaughter folks who got the rules changed made matters worse. (Though I don't buy the 'hear/smell/taste death' stuff, that's anthropomorphising. With the possible exception of the highly intelligent pigs, the animals have no idea what's going on, just that it's crowded and they're being funneled somewhere.)

                      Yes pigs are so intelligent!! And I've been trying to convince my SO that we should get one and all I ever get is oooohhhh nooo!!! you will just end up keeping it!!! (as apposed to slaughtering it) which is probably true, and that is why I don't do my own "farm animal" meats.

                      But You don't think that when the animals are in the kill floor line in the actual building that can't sense death or get scared?

                      I do think they can, and last year when I euth'd my two boys, they were done together but I made a horrible, horrible mistake that will forever haunt me, I had my TB put down first....and then we brought the pony out....I didn't cover up my TB's body with a blanket my pony noticed and got scared and started pulling back. He had to be soothed and I had to ask the vets manager to leave as his presence had escalated the situation more(pony was not trusting of men) I can't explain the look in his eyes or his body language but it was something I had never seen him do in the 21 years I owned him

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Oh, good grief.
                        Somebody decide if we're talking about euthanizing pets or if we're talking about producing and butchering meats that we consume.
                        ayrabz
                        "Indecision may or may not be my problem"
                        --Jimmy Buffett

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by ayrabz View Post
                          Oh, good grief.
                          Somebody decide if we're talking about euthanizing pets or if we're talking about producing and butchering meats that we consume.

                          Well I was talking about horses...but got a wee bit off topic on the whole animal thing......

                          back to OP topic!

                          If I couldn't find a suitable home for my elderly horse that was still sound I probably would have him euthanized...what else would I do with him if no one wanted him?

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Miss J, that's the point, IF YOU COULDN'T FIND a suitable home. The point of all the dismay at the original case is that it appears that no such effort was UNDERTAKEN. (yes, I am yelling, because we are at that point in the thread where folks chime in who haven't bothered to read the damned thing)

                            Those of us who object to this case, in the specifics that we have seen posted, are saying that an effort should be made (by owner, by owner's caring friends, by perhaps a breed rescue) to FIND homes for these horses, rather than going STRAIGHT TO EUTHANASIA. We are not saying that euthanasia is bad, or should never be done, or that there are not rehoming efforts that fail. We are saying, the owner appears to be acting on fear and selfishness if she doesn't let the animals go to separate homes or accept reasonable suggestions for rehoming them, and that just throwing her hands in the air, in the initial and understandable terror of hearing her diagnosis, is not the right time to make such final decisions, and some of us are saying, to ourselves, "GET A GRIP, lady, and don't execute your pets without trying to do something less drastic for them right off the bat."

                            That's all, Miss J. That is all.
                            I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
                            I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Lori,

                              I've just poured my wife a kir royale. Would you like one?

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by danceronice View Post
                                There's a difference between raising and slaughtering an animal to a purpose and keeping one as a pet/companion and then killing it because you can't trust anyone else to own it. Animals who are slaughtered for meat are being used for a purpose, not thrown like yesterday's newspaper in a house that doesn't recycle or buried in the king's tomb so he can take it to the afterlife with him.
                                Well, if one's metaphysics entails that there's an afterlife where one needs a good horse...

                                With respect to "herd medicine" being as ethical as performance horse medicine or companion animal medicine, and the hard life of a commercial dairy cow.

                                Yes, the cow has a harder life than we give other animals. She also arguably has an easier life than a wild animal.

                                I'd be hard pressed to see herd medicine as unethical in comparison to the stuff done to performances horses in order to keep them sound. Hard working performance horses, like professional athletes, get the best of care that also contributes to shorter career. It seems to make no sense until you look at the ages at which race- and show horses retire in comparison to others or the length of their natural life. Man, the 3-year-old cutting horses with sore backs, you know?
                                The armchair saddler
                                Politically Pro-Cat

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  I imagine the lady in question will have a hard time finding anyone to put them all down without a lot of explaining.

                                  Perhaps someone just needs to make it clear to her that they appreciate her fears and concerns. Totally. They get it. They understand where she's coming from. Now, given that, is there ANY room at all in her mind to consider finding them new homes, maybe in pairs, if not all 6 to one location?

                                  I don't think anyone's on board with oh your sick and want to put them all down immediately, let me get my vet on the line, maybe he can do it today. What's for lunch. I don't imagine anyone's fully on board with that.

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    Thomas, you are too kind. I would be much obliged, even though I am at work right now. (SharePoint is nearly as aggravating as this thread, if you can imagine that).

                                    :-)
                                    I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
                                    I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      eh...nevermind. thread has deteriorated to a slaughter debate.
                                      Last edited by RugBug; Aug. 25, 2010, 02:19 PM.
                                      Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                                      Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        Originally posted by katarine View Post

                                        Perhaps someone just needs to make it clear to her that they appreciate her fears and concerns. Totally. They get it. They understand where she's coming from. Now, given that, is there ANY room at all in her mind to consider finding them new homes, maybe in pairs, if not all 6 to one location?

                                        .
                                        This is why I so hope someone can get her some help from an experienced therapist/counselor who knows cancer patients. No one thinsk she's silly for being scared! I'd be terrified. But hopefully someone can make her see there ARE options.

                                        Heck, if they were close enough, even I could probably find a place to stash two minis. My BO is not an unsympathetic person and we're all suckers for a hard-luck story at our barn.

                                        ETA: Not a horse, but I have a dog because a COTHer took a chance on a complete stranger three states away taking him on the basis of a bulliten board (and another COTHER could board him at their place while we madeour respective moves). He's a good dog who's been here almost a year now. Old dog, but good dog.
                                        Author Page
                                        Like Omens In the Night on Facebook
                                        Steampunk Sweethearts

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          Originally posted by Miss J View Post
                                          Nobody could take care of my TB gelding like me nor would anybody understand his quirks, needs and personality. At one point in his life I tried to sell him, and that is when I decided I couldn't bare it if he wasn't taken care of the way he had taught me. That bieng the way it was, I kept him until I felt it was time to euthanize him. That is why I can't buy animals often because I would keep them all. And 1 person can only have so many.

                                          I did have to rehome a dog tho. And it took my over a year to find that perfect home.

                                          This was my first post Lori!!

                                          I would rather have put down my one particular TB instead of rehoming him. And not because of bieng lazy or not trying to find him a home, I know I wouldn't be satisfied with anybody, plus there would be no gaurentee he'd end up somewhere horrible!

                                          And I already said sorry for getting OT. One of my posts was misinterpreted on account of my inabilty to write what i'm thinking properly!!!!!!

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X