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Spinoff - sick friend euthanizing.......

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  • #21
    I shouldn't have spouted off like that as I know where SNL is coming from. I do think it's a bit of a give up and nobody can do it like me syndrome, but really being here at the moment would maybe change anybody's mind.

    There was one bit in the H&H article about horses found in basically rubbish land around Dublin which had French microchips. Don't know if they were TB's or sporthorses but at some stage those horses had to have been worth a bit of money.

    I re called the ISPCA yesterday and gave all of my horses information for them to pass around nationally just in case they happen upon him. This horse was sold for pretty good money as a foal and then we got to keep him until he was broken and riding. Really thought we did right by him. He could be in a great home so I advertise on some local sites too just to see if anyone has seen him and if they could let me know he's ok.

    Terri
    COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

    "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.

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    • #22
      I have been in the rescue biz unofficially for almost twenty years. It definitely colors your vision. Like the time we adopted 7 lovely horses to a woman who was starting a therapeutic riding facility for blind people. The facility was incredible. Stalls literally bedded two feet deep with fluffy white shaving etc. We ended up repossessing those horses after they had been starved, two to the point of needing to be euthanized. Not one single horse ever set foot in that barn by the way. They are real easy to keep spotless that way.
      Next I free lease a horse of mine to a woman who was in a bitter divorce that was weighing heavily on their two kids. She was working at one of the most beautiful facilities in the state if not the country and the horse would live there. She sold him to fund her newly developed crack habit and I never saw him again.
      Then there is our own Norcrest. How many horses did she get from people right here on this forum and other forums just to starve them to the point of needing euthanasia?
      I could go on but you get the idea. I am not saying people should never sell or give away horses but you can also see how it can be very hard to do just that when you see the horrible things that can and do happen to horses when they fall into the wrong hands. Some leaps of faith are easier to stomach than others.
      McDowell Racing Stables

      Home Away From Home

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      • #23
        Can anyone on this board read? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

        No one is saying that bad things don't happen. No one is saying that they will be easy to place in perfect forever homes. We are saying, it is freaking ignorant and selfish not to at least try, inside her circle of trusted friends and horsey connections, to find sound not ancient animals another home rather than offing them.

        I get that bad things happen. But I think that the folks with rescue experience have to also acknowledge that they see more than their share of nutty and cruel and criminal. It's just like the police, who after a while start really believing that everyone is a perp. Not every possible new situation is a disaster, and it's crazy and arrogant to think that you are the only possible safe and conscientious keeper of your animals.
        I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
        I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09

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        • #24
          Originally posted by Iron Horse Farm View Post
          how about............

          #4. What if something good happens?

          What if that oldie went to a theraputic riding center and became the center of the earth for a child with autism? What if that healthy sound horse could become a teens show mount. What if those minis came to my house so that I could just stare at them and watch them eat grass? Just saying!
          Most of the theraputic riding centers are able to be very picky these days, overflowing with offers of sane, sound, really nice horses. They prefer younger ones.

          I think people with horses suitable for that use know it and generally will find them homes. But it really depends on the horse. A horse who is difficult to ride and lame is not going to have a ton of prospects. A horse who is annoying on the ground and lame worse still. A teenage horse who is not quiet and not well trained has few prospects.

          To me, the best thing you can do for the horses in your care is to make sure they all have the best manners and training you can give them, so that they'll always win over someone new to love them. But, sometimes horses come to us because no one else wanted them, and those horses may not have someone waiting to take them next.

          And, realistically, as far as rescues go, every time they take in a lame horse with nasty manners that may always be hard to place, they take away a slot that could be used to help adoptable horses transition somewhere new. By passing on a lame, unadoptable horse, a rescue might be able to save and rehome 10 horses that just need a little time, training, or legwork.

          So, IMHO, given the big picture, it's appropriate foe each horse to be assessed and dealt with as an individual.
          If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

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          • Original Poster

            #25
            Every horse that you own (unless you bred it yourself).....someone trusted you enough to give or sell it to you.
            Holly
            www.ironhorsefrm.com
            Oldenburg foals and young prospects
            LIKE us on Facebook!

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            • #26
              Um, what about having a plan B in case ANYTHING catastrophic were to happen? I mean, any one of us could die tomorrow in a car accident...personally, I have strict (legal) instructions that my horses are to go to my trainer so that she can either place them or keep them for her own personal mounts.
              JB-Infinity Farm
              www.infinitehorses.com

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              • #27
                Originally posted by Iron Horse Farm View Post
                3. Why do people think that they are the only ones that can provide a good home? "I have to put them down because no one else could ever take care of them as well as I could"
                Um, well, do YOU want a 16.3 hand crippled Thoroughbred gelding? Because I'm pretty sure most people don't. And yes, if I were no longer to care for him, I would absolutely euthanize him. Death is not the worst thing in the world, pain is. As a horse owner, my job is to make sure my horses never suffer. If that means euthanizing to prevent my horse from ending up in a bad position, then that's what I'll do.

                I'm all for finding a good home for the horse first, but if the owner is unable to find a suitable home, then euthanasia is the best option.
                Against My Better Judgement: A blog about my new FLF OTTB
                Do not buy a Volkswagen. I did and I regret it.
                VW sucks.

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                • Original Poster

                  #28
                  Originally posted by amastrike View Post
                  Um, well, do YOU want a 16.3 hand crippled Thoroughbred gelding? Because I'm pretty sure most people don't. And yes, if I were no longer to care for him, I would absolutely euthanize him. Death is not the worst thing in the world, pain is. As a horse owner, my job is to make sure my horses never suffer. If that means euthanizing to prevent my horse from ending up in a bad position, then that's what I'll do.

                  I'm all for finding a good home for the horse first, but if the owner is unable to find a suitable home, then euthanasia is the best option.
                  You have missed the point. No one would flame you for euthanizing something that is lame. I am crying foul over euthanizing healthy or young or sane because no one could care for it as well as you. Like the poster who says that her will dictates that they are all euthanized when she dies - even if someone wants them.

                  And you bring up euthanasia as a last option...........and that is my point. TRY SOMETHING ELSE FIRST!

                  I really hate the "I lost my job so I'm going to put down all of my horses" mentality.
                  Holly
                  www.ironhorsefrm.com
                  Oldenburg foals and young prospects
                  LIKE us on Facebook!

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                  • #29
                    Life comes at you sometimes, and things get out of hand. I can't be in a position to judge another person in their crisis, really.

                    That said, one thing that breaks my heart is seeing sound adult horses who are not trained. Six year olds that don't lead, can't be ridden, fuss, push and pull, no manners... If a situation arises where rehoming or sale is needed, they are practically worthless and often challenging to train from scratch.

                    One thing I've done with both my youthful horses (the Morgan I lost last year and my new QH) is to put 110% into making sure they are trained as completely and in as many disciplines as feasible. I work on them to be safe for trail riding, all the basics of arena work, poles and cross rails, driving, drill team, obstacle courses, take them to hunter paces, small shows, ride in groups, ride alone... I try to make sure they have the most well-rounded background and best manners I can, so God forbid if something happened and I had to find them a new home, they would have the best chance of being appreciated by their new owner.

                    Now the oldster I have, who is marginally sound and a bit temperamental on top of it, she will be a keeper, or euthed in an emergency. She's had a long full life. But I think we owe it to useable younger horses to make sure they have as much education as possible, to give them as many opportunities in life as possible.

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                    • #30
                      The society in the USA is mired in a disposable headset. The anti-slaughter folks tried to turn that around by putting a plug in the US slaughter pipeline, knowing full well that the rescues would be stressed for a while until it could all be sorted out. No one expected the economy would tank, exacerbating the problem to tsunami levels. At that point, the rescues couldn't keep up, so the mantra shifted from 'place it in a home or send it to a rescue', to 'place it in a home, or euthanize it, because we can't keep up'. And that gets a lot of air play. Add in that most good horse owners are control freaks for whom a sale is a gut wrenching experience, and that it is far too easy to hire a vet to kill a horse without the owner even being required to show up for the appointment, let alone be made to walk Dobbin down to the hole and stay there for the event, and one can see how this has easily spun way out of control.

                      Honestly, I think that until the vets put their foot down and actually make these owners show up for the final curtain and witness Dobbin's last moments, this mantra is going to continue to gain acceptance. I feel real sorry for anyone with cancer, but who is willing to bet that the woman in the original post that inspired this thread won't be anywhere near the hole when the veterinary assassin she hires kills all 6 of her horses and they are then pushed into it? And the warm and fuzzy crowd will pat her on the hand, and say ,'Now don't you worry about it. We know how hard this was for you.' That's just the problem. It isn't physically hard to get this done at all. Make folks show up for the killing, and it will put the brakes on this, too.
                      "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein

                      http://s1098.photobucket.com/albums/...2011%20Photos/

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                      • #31
                        This particular case sounds extreme. From what I understand, the person has 6 horses that she will not split up and would rather euth than rehome. Of course, we are only getting one person's version of it and the truth might be slightly different.

                        But in today's economy, it's darn hard to find a home for a healthy, ridable older lower-level horse. Our shelter recently took in a 15 year old cute little sound puddle jumper whose owner was trying to give away for over 6 months because she was moving and found no takers. The market is even worse for a healthy, unbroken young horse of unknown origin. The market for older, unbroken or unrideable pasture pets is practically non-existant. They are truly special people who step in to pick up the pieces when other people can't or won't.

                        While I agree that this person should attempt to re-home the re-homeable, humane euthanasia of a sound, but unridable, older horse is not a horrible thing.

                        Of course, we should all have plans for the "what ifs" that happen in life and we technically should be able to care for our horses should something befall them for their full lifetime, but how many people on here do that?

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                        • #32
                          Over the last 15 years I've sold probably 10 horses. I know where they all are except 1. (She'd be old enough to be dead now) I take pride in trying to find the best homes for my horses... and BEST does NOT mean fanciest. Most of them were sold to friends or a friend of a friend. It's not hard in the age of facebook to keep up with the horses, if you choose to do so.

                          I don't think anyone on this board is trying to say that it's NEVER ok to put a horse down.... but (in North America) there is a significant chance that someone else will love your horse (maybe even more than you do).

                          Personally, I've put in writing that if I die I would like my horse to go to my one and only student. She is still riding the pony they bought from me and will someday out grow him. They will never sell him, so buying something else would be hard. They own their place and I would love for my Wee Dee Trrr to be loved by them.
                          Yes, I ride a pony. No, he would not be ideal for your child. No, he is not a re-sale project...

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                          • #33
                            Not so sure making a woman possibly facing her own mortality watch the euthanization of her horses is good for anyone.

                            How many here have tried to find homes for horses?

                            How many who have were able to keep track of the horse and how it was doing?

                            And how many have tried to make board, feed, farrier and vet bills while facing tons of medical bills for themselves?

                            And now how many have horses at home that they think make the sun rises but that aren't safe, sane and sound? Oh, and add in mid teens and younger. Because while there are many 20-something horses going fine, many hitting that age are going to start requiring maintanance.
                            So how many have middle aged and younger horses that almost anyone can ride, that load and have ground manners, aren't on restrictions/special care, etc?
                            And how many have horses that don't fit that description? Because the vast majority of folks just aren't willing to take on a "free" horse that they can't use and is going to cost them extra.

                            Sure if you have a youngish horse that safe for almost anyone, sane and sound and no health issues/maintanance...find it a new home. For the rest, good luck rehoming it. And good luck keeping up on how it's doing because it's not just about finding it the home now, it's if it stays there and if it's kept up decently.

                            Seriously folks...so you don't like what other people do. That's life. Someone else might see how you keep your horses as appalling. Others might think you spoil them rotten. Most will think you ride/handle them wrong.

                            And as for vets putting down anything...good luck with that too. Around here finding a vet to put anything down that's not broken itself beyond repair is next to impossible.
                            You jump in the saddle,
                            Hold onto the bridle!
                            Jump in the line!
                            ...Belefonte

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                            • #34
                              As someone that tried to place a sane, young, healthy TB with a manageable condition and had absolutely no interest on this BB or others, contacted every therapeutic riding center in my state to be turned away by all, I would say that most people have rose colored glasses if they think it is easy to place a horse. Yes, there are success stories, but there are also dreadful ones where a once beloved horse suffers unjustly.
                              And trying to find a home for my horse was time and energy consuming, as well as emotionally draining, even for a healthy individual.
                              "When life gives you scurvy, make lemonade."

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                              • #35
                                a few years ago i was told i had several weeks to live. of course i panicked and made immediate arrangements for my many pets. however, if i had not been able to place my horses, dogs or cats in homes with people i trust, you bet your bippy i would have had them euthed.
                                having done rescue for as long as i have, the odds of any of my babies landing in a negectful or abusive home, or just being bounced around from home to home is just too great for me.
                                and fwiw, i believe quality of life is way more important than length, and always have. i trust my animals agree--do they even have a concept of length of life? i do know they understand quality!
                                btw, the docs were wrong, at least for now!

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                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by BEARCAT View Post
                                  As someone that tried to place a sane, young, healthy TB with a manageable condition and had absolutely no interest on this BB or others, contacted every therapeutic riding center in my state to be turned away by all, I would say that most people have rose colored glasses if they think it is easy to place a horse. Yes, there are success stories, but there are also dreadful ones where a once beloved horse suffers unjustly.
                                  And trying to find a home for my horse was time and energy consuming, as well as emotionally draining, even for a healthy individual.
                                  Absolutely!

                                  Originally posted by suz View Post
                                  a few years ago i was told i had several weeks to live. of course i panicked and made immediate arrangements for my many pets. however, if i had not been able to place my horses, dogs or cats in homes with people i trust, you bet your bippy i would have had them euthed.
                                  having done rescue for as long as i have, the odds of any of my babies landing in a negectful or abusive home, or just being bounced around from home to home is just too great for me.
                                  and fwiw, i believe quality of life is way more important than length, and always have. i trust my animals agree--do they even have a concept of length of life? i do know they understand quality!
                                  btw, the docs were wrong, at least for now!
                                  Suz- I'm glad you beat the odds!!
                                  "Life is too short to be a slave to the whims of others." -- RugBug, COTH

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                                  • Original Poster

                                    #37
                                    I have been trying for over a year to find a giveaway oldie for my children to ride. Craigslist within 100 miles has not had anything broke for free, so I am at a loss as to where all of these unwanted horses are.

                                    Many of you remember the thread about the two arabs that were dumped at a friend's home when the owner didn't seek medical attention for them. The older one is being rehabbed and already has a home waiting. Soooo, homes are out there. Bearcat, i am afraid to ask, but what happened to your TB mare?
                                    Holly
                                    www.ironhorsefrm.com
                                    Oldenburg foals and young prospects
                                    LIKE us on Facebook!

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                                    • #38
                                      I think the OP is riled up about a situation that doesn't exist very often-- a person who has made a useful horse just decides to punt rather than find the animal a new spot.

                                      Look, most people who know enough to create a useful animal actually like them, know what they have, do have a network of friends, etc.

                                      The only thing that bugged me in the original thread was what the OP's friend seems to have not done: Made her horses attractive to others. But with that being water under the bridge now, the owner has to do something.

                                      Finding one home for six or six separate homes sounds hard for anyone on the best of days. I can't imagine what it would be like while heading into cancer treatment.

                                      And like the OP's friend, making sure my animals had homes and plans would be priority #1 if I thought my days were numbered.
                                      The armchair saddler
                                      Politically Pro-Cat

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                                      • #39
                                        Nothing free (or even that cheap) on my local CL, either (I think I'm in a different part of the state from IHF, too.) Certainly nothing rideable.

                                        Seriously, are people not reading? No one has said "Don't euth the horse who's in pain and can't be ridden and is old." (In fact if they're in that bad a shape, why are you keeping them alive?) If they're useless, of course no one is going to want them. For some people that means put them down, for some that means sending them to auction or straight to a kill buyer, owner's prerogative. In my ideal world I'd have a hound pack to feed them to. But on this thread we have someone looking for a giveaway oldster. In the other thread we have someone not in an emotional state to be making irreversible decisions and a friend trying to help her find another option besides "sale to parts unknown" or "put them all down."

                                        And I have to agree with Chief2, and I'd go so far as to say that if it were legal (given the drugs involved it might not be) the vet putting down a healthy, sound horse because the owner can't bear to sell them should make them push the plunger. I have yet to meet a vet who went to vet school so they could kill healthy animals. I don't blame them for not wanting to do it.
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                                        • #40
                                          Iron Horse Farm...it could be a location thing too.
                                          In Michigan things are different than where I am in CT. Land is pretty expensive here, the taxes on that land are worse. I pay in property taxes monthly what many people pay for board. (a tad over $500)
                                          So many people board. Not lots of folks will take in an extra animal they have to pay board for. And those of us with a little land usually means we have a little land. Can;t graze them year round here, very few can graze at all. Not enough land to do so. Hay isn't cheap either.
                                          I get offered more cheap/free horses than I can shake a stick at...at least a couple times per month. Not many advertising so much though...they worry too much about who's going to show up with a good story and take their horse and flip it immediately. It's all word of mouth around here. Go anywhere in public wearing Muck Boots or a barn jacket, with hay in your hair or in britches and it's very common for someone to walk up to you and ask if you want another horse.
                                          Could I rehome my current horses? Sure, both are good ages (7 and 11) and both are safe, sane, sound and registered. If they weren't very marketable I'd seriously consider euthanizing them in an emergency situation if I could find a vet to do so.
                                          And nope, I'm not a control freak when it comes to my horses. I have zero issues selling horses. Sound horses. I have big issues dumping off a restricted animal to folks I'm not related to or have known for years though.
                                          You jump in the saddle,
                                          Hold onto the bridle!
                                          Jump in the line!
                                          ...Belefonte

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