Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You're responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it--details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums' policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it's understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users' profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses -- Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it's related to a horse for sale, regardless of who's selling it, it doesn't belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions -- Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services -- Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products -- While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements -- Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be "bumped" excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues -- Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators' discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you'd rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user's membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

Crazy FIL situation- horse related, I swear!

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Crazy FIL situation- horse related, I swear!

    Last edited by KiraSophia; Dec. 4, 2019, 10:20 AM.

    Not sure that you can do anything to stop it and unless you have a financial stake and therefore some authority in decision making, maybe just MYOB?
    Yes, it's got to be frustrating for sure and ethically not cool BUT other than suggest FIL have great liability insurance I think
    you have to just grin and bear it.
    "There is no fundamental difference between man and animals in their ability to feel pleasure and pain, happiness, and misery." - Charles Darwin


      Originally posted by Marla 100 View Post
      Not sure that you can do anything to stop it and unless you have a financial stake and therefore some authority in decision making, maybe just MYOB?
      Yes, it's got to be frustrating for sure and ethically not cool BUT other than suggest FIL have great liability insurance I think
      you have to just grin and bear it.
      That ^.

      Then, if you do get to say something here and there, you can enthusiastically comment how wonderful the horse world is because you never quit learning about so much.
      No matter how much we think we know, there is always so much more to learn.

      What your FIL may be experiencing is normal as a beginner.
      You become very proud of what you know, but don't have the depth of knowledge to understand how little you do know.
      As you learn more, it humbles you as you go along and your horizons expand.
      Then you realize how much more there was to learn that you even were aware of.

      He is not there yet, keep teaching him, giving him magazines and books.
      Discuss videos to educate his eyes without resenting you "butting in" on "his lessons".

      That he is teaching without real knowledge is wrong, but not sure you can do anything about it directly.
      His barn, his clients, just hope it goes well and no harm done.
      I expect his students will outgrow what he knows soon and move on once wiser.


        If he causes a kid to get injured, and you all (who are partners) get sued...

        If you are not partners, stop your involvement? You say they asked you to help run the place. What does that look like? Why did he ask you to help?

        It's business. It's not personal. Keep reminding yourself of that.
        Also, "Never do business with family or friends" is an excellent rule to have.
        Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014


          You say you "help him run it," right? So (IANAL), what is the insurance situation and could you and your husband be liable in the case of any accidents? Is there any question about SafeSport compliance (multiple adults in attendance is all I mean, not casting aspersions) that could affect your USEF status, assuming you show?

          I am raising these matters just in case any of them might give you a bit of leverage. If it's his facility, he gets to set the rules but you don't have to expose yourself to an unnecessary risk.

          As usual, Bluey is offering sage advice.


            Agree to MYOB. My own kid started giving lessons at age 13-14. As a teacher (high school) myself, I suggested she write down goals for each lesson, and have some kind of method to evaluate progress that she would explain to the student at the start --"We will work toward an independent seat, trotting without stirrups, etc." "We'll know when you've achieved that when . . .' anyway --kid said, "Mom, I'm not doing it your way." and she didn't. She had ultimately 10 students, they loved her. They rode horses and (I hope) learned something. That she wasn't the best teacher ever didn't matter to delightful little girls who wanted to ride for the hour she had them at the farm.

            My own FIL was somewhat like yours. He had no horse background, but every show we ever attended, he would come and give the kids "tips" on how to win the classes they were in. It drove me nuts because I was the one working with the girls daily to achieve their goals with horses --and he'd breeze in, give his tips --then when the kids won --take all the credit ---even my husband played the game: "Good job! Glad you listened to Grandpa!" ---"Grandpa knows what he's doing!" And if they didn't win, he'd let them know that next time they should listen to him ---Tips were generic ---remember to smile! Keep your chin up! Don't forget to listen to the judge's directions!" --I suppose I should be grateful he came to watch the kids, but I dreaded his appearance.


              he is pretending to have the qualifications to be a trainer
              sounds like most all equine trainers to me, but maybe he is pretending a little bit more than the average ... was he a used car salesman in his prior career?


                It is your business to 'mind' if you are connected to to his farm/facility in any way or capacity. His ignorance is putting everyone at risk. Protect yourself.

                I disagree with the enabling advice: don't say anything negative to his 'clients' but don't endorse him, either.
                No matter where you go, there you are


                  The difficulty I see here is that you are "helping run" the stable. What are the roles of you and your husband? Are you identified as being Management? Do you have other options for your horse(s)?

                  Ideally, I would want to cut business ties, perhaps by claiming that running the stable is too much work for you. Board elsewhere and enjoy your horse and riding. If that is not possible, I would evaluate the risk of his uneducated training and my association with it. Then I would make sure I am covered for liability and try to take the approach of "He runs his business separately. I do dressage. I really dont know about his program". (This is providing his instruction is ignorant but not putting clients in obvious danger)


                    I'm older now, and am still struck with how eager some are to teach others when they're pretty much at the bottom of the learning curve themselves.

                    In fact, watching clueless trainers risk the safety of both horses and humans makes me nuts, which is why I stay far, far away from all the accidents just waiting to happen.

                    IOW, I think "not my circus" applies here.


                      after listening to many teachers in the school system I would suggest just overload him, get him about fifty wild students to work with


                        How are you involved with the running of the barn? What does the insurance situation look like? If you are a partner in a business relationship then you are at risk of being sued if a kid gets hurt during one of his "lessons" and the parents decide to sue, due to negligence etc.

                        If you aren't involved as a partner or part of the business, or running of the farm, I would sadly look the other way. You are in a tough spot, between your husband and FIL. But if you are in anyway tied to this business, your input DOES matter, and I would either sever ties and move my horses, if possible, or have a frank sit down discussion with how he is putting you at risk financially if something were to happen. Good luck OP!


                          Original Poster

                          Guess the consensus is MYOB and try not to strangle him, lol.

                          They have great liability insurance, everyone wears a helmet (my rule that he thankfully listens to) and I have long since minimized my involvement in the interest of picking my battles.


                            Does your horse live there? Do you still live close by to "help run the barn?"

                            I'd keep my horses elsewhere and move to the other side of town.


                              Original Poster

                              Originally posted by Ruth0552 View Post
                              Does your horse live there? Do you still live close by to "help run the barn?"

                              I'd keep my horses elsewhere and move to the other side of town.
                              Sadly this is not an option. My husband refuses to move (we live on-property and so do they in separate houses) or pay board when we have free board for our horses at our boarding facility. He loves helping out his parents and built a lot of the facilities himself so feels attached to the land.


                                the main thing is to protect yourself from any liability. if you're there more in an attempt to be advisory vs. partnership then you're probably Ok from a liability standpoint. FWIW, years ago we had a show series at our which included an Adult Long stirrup division - w/t, wtc and wtc and jump 2 fences. The woman that was our series champion then put her shingle out as a trainer. Somehow she got clients and currently has a pretty decent business (and hired more knowledgeable trainers). Another woman I know of, fortunately didn't have her own barn, but claimed to be a teacher too. Her clients at shows - some had potential to be quite good riders. Parents didn't understand why their daughter wasn't placing because she wasn't teaching them all the basics like correct diagonals. You can have the best equitation in the world but you won't pin if that beautiful form is on the wrong diagonal the entire class. SMH
                                I could go on but...


                                  wow - just reading this gives me anxiety. Never-mind the fact that eventually someone will get hurt, but you have to listen to this windbag go on about how he's a great teacher when he doesn't know a hock from a stifle

                                  I don't have any words of wisdom here, but are the facilities safe and the horses well taken care of? It always baffles me when someone who has ZERO horse experience buys a horse facility. The two times I have witnessed it, it did not end well. Feedings commonly skipped, fences in poor repair etc. They just had no idea how much work it would be, and you can't always count on hiring knowledgeable help.

                                  We all know that word spreads fast in horse circles. Eventually the green bean beginners will grow up and want to progress in their riding and realize that the old man at the boarding barn taught them less than nothing and will move on and share tales of their experience. Hopefully words spreads and his pool of unwitting 'students' dries up. Hopefully this happens before anyone gets seriously hurt (including FIL).

                                  If you still have to be on friendly daily terms with him and haven't given up on trying to nudge him in the direction of knowledge entirely - maybe take him to some expos, clinics or symposiums of "cowboy" horsemen he would actually listen to? It might give him some perspective on how out of his depth he is, but it sounds like he is a fool in a world of his own making. good luck!


                                    Do you teach at the same facility? If you are teaching English and he is teaching Western (or some version of it) I would just leave it be. Maybe he will get better over time. Maybe you can get him a good western type "cowboy" horse training book for Christmas. Just avoid anything where the trainer lays the horse down. That would be bad.

                                    I would definitely stay away from his lessons. He will be happier and so will you.

                                    Helmets, good insurance, and nice, steady horses. They are probably safer than on rental horses doing trail rides. The kids might not make much progress and, at some point, they might be frustrated if they try to compete. Otherwise, maybe the parents are just paying for babysitting.


                                      Do you have a trainer that comes on site to give you lessons? Perhaps FIL could have a western trainer come give him some lessons. I'd suggest a man because clearly your dressage and vagina having self is not good enough.

                                      How old is FIL? This is a problem that will, erm, expire, at some point.

                                      As long as the horses are sane, they are wearing helmets and the liability insurance is good, I'd say there is a limited amount you can do. There are a ton of horsey "professionals" that hang out a shingle that have no damn clue what they are doing.


                                        Have you discussed this with MIL? Sometimes they can be the reasonable ones....