• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 2/8/18)
See more
See less

Friend w/Cancer may need to Euthanize her 6 horses

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    My friend may die
    The chances of her dying SOON from breast cancer are around zero- she may step out in front of a bus and die, sure, but few of us have our pets killed just in case we get run down by buses. People panic when they hear the word "cancer", but really, cure rates for breast cancer are close to 100%. Even if she's one of the unlucky ones, she will most likely have many happy reasonably healthy years during which she can enjoy her horses, and carefully arrange some kind of aftercare for them.
    She sounds like she needs some professional counseling or something about her actual medical condition and her chances of surviving. She's freaking out and over-reacting and being unreasonable. As a friend your best option is to stall her and not let her make decisions she will regret horribly later.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by wendy View Post
      People panic when they hear the word "cancer", but really, cure rates for breast cancer are close to 100%.
      Not even close. Although cure rates are better than they used to be, in 2006
      191,410 women were diagnosed with breast cancer and 40,820 women died from breast cancer (source: CDC). Only lung cancer accounts for more cancer deaths in women.

      Comment


      • #63
        What an overwhelming situation. I'm sure your friend is dreading the emotional rollercoaster that rehoming a horse can be, on top of her other emotional and fearful obstacles. I'm sure she is trying to look ahead and make the most responsible decision for the horses in her care. I'm sure she realises that euthanasia is a final and irrevocable decision.

        Jingles to her in her time of need, and jingles to you as her friend that you will be able to hang in there and be supportive through this difficult process. She is lucky to have a friend who will get involved and help her.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #64
          I thank everyone who has offered up constructive opinions in regards to this post. I knew it would turn into a bit of a train wreck but I did not know that people would resort to kicking below the belt.

          I originally posted this because I wanted to be able to understand my friends possible decision of euthanizing her horses so I could still be there for her as a friend, without judgement. Many of you have helped me see things from her perspective and I thank you for that. Regardless of the outcome, there will not be a good ending for I fear whever decision my friend makes, it will weigh heavily on her heart.

          So thank you to all that have offered both sides of the argument to euthanizing and to not euthanizing. And for the rest of you who felt it was more important to impose judgement on me for wanting to understand where my friend was coming from (with a cancer diagnosis) as well as how to be a better friend to her, and perhaps save a few of her animals in the process, I say Karma and may you all live is a drama free, cancer free, and beautiful world where your horses are perfect and you are always right.

          I have emailed the moderators to close this thread.
          Keep in mind...normal is just a dryer setting.~anonymous

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by onelanerode View Post
            Euthanizing them doesn't bother me. What does bother me is the owner's refusal to allow them to be split up. That really, really limits any chances they might have had of finding good homes. Very few people have the resources to take on six new horses at once. They'd have a better shot at finding homes if she were willing to split them up. Someone might love to take the minis but not the big horses, while someone else might love the older ones or be looking for a project pony (the unbroke ones).

            Splitting up a group of horses is not usually a problem for the horses (though it can be for some in certain situations). It's usually a problem for the owner.

            That said, I firmly believe there are things in this world worse than death, and I can't imagine what's going through her mind right now as she tries to sort this all out.
            This pretty much sums up my feelings, too. Euthanizing them because you can't care for them and you can't find good homes for them? Okay. Not even giving them a chance because you refuse to split them up? Not okay.

            Although, reading between the lines it does sound to me like it might be a panicked reaction on the part of the OP's friend. Most people, when confronted with a serious diagnosis like that, aren't thinking straight. OP, if she's able to care for them (since they're boarded, that's primarily a financial concern...they won't die if she's too ill to see them for a bit), I'd try to talk her out of doing anything drastic until she has had some time to process this diagnosis and has a better idea of what her treatment will be like. If she is really set on this or unable to care for them, try to talk her into splitting them up. There may be a few that can't be homed, but the minis shouldn't be too difficult, and if you put this out into the Arab community people will probably step up. At least, that's been my experience with Arabian people. They really step up for their horses in need.
            exploring the relationship between horse and human

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by CosMonster View Post
              This pretty much sums up my feelings, too. Euthanizing them because you can't care for them and you can't find good homes for them? Okay. Not even giving them a chance because you refuse to split them up? Not okay.

              Although, reading between the lines it does sound to me like it might be a panicked reaction on the part of the OP's friend.
              I do agree with this. The odds of re-homing are much greater if all six do not have to go together.

              I wish you and your friend all the best during this difficult time. May she stay strong and positive and healthy.
              Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
              http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
              http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

              Comment


              • #67
                Best wishes to the OP's friends. I hope a solution with the horses can be found, but the friend gets only my best wishes and prayers, not judgment.

                About breast cancer being almost always a cure these days, there are still types of it that are pretty much a death sentence. My aunt had one of those rare types - diagnosed in the late 1990s. It was caught quickly; just a very bad and aggressive type, not the typical breast cancer. Docs gave her a year. She went for every chemo/radiation option out there, and she made it 1 1/2 years, but the quality of life during those years was lousy. She applied for and received permanent disability and Medicare as soon as she got her diagnosis (and she was only in her early 40s). BOTH Medicare and disability approved her without question on seeing her medical records, and she had been accepted into both programs within 2 months of the DX. That is how dismal that diagnosis was. And that aunt was upbeat, gonna beat it, took all treatments available, and fought like a tiger - and lost. If she hadn't had her husband, she would have had her 9-year-old Dauchsund (sp?) put down rather than rehome him to a stranger.

                I realize hers was an odd type, and I agree that great strides are being made, but I think people are assuming a lot about the friend that we don't know. It really COULD be basically a death sentence. Or could not. We don't know her details, but cancer is far from cured, and can still be quickly fatal, even with treatment.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by enjoytheride View Post
                  Your friend may be dying of cancer and you're more concerned that she finds homes for older unbroke horses?

                  How many threads have their been about horses ending up in bad homes, at auctions, on trucks to Canada?

                  I say put the horses down and support your friend.
                  I totally agree with this.

                  I have six horses and if for any reason I am unable to keep my horses I would put them down if my few close friends cant take them......I will euthanize them rather than risk them having a horrible end to their life.........their welfare is my first concern and will do what ever it takes to ensure they have a peaceful end to their life.

                  I also have a girlfriend who has too many horses......she is trying to sell them but if not successful she will start putting them down rather than give them away .......in both our opinions it is far too risky giving or selling a horse for cheap........as it usually attracts a certian type of buyer......one that usually has no money for on going care or emergencies or lacks experience in dealing with horses.....my friend would rather see her horse go peaceful and then use the meat to feed her 7 dogs.

                  It is the new sad reality for a lot of people and horses.

                  Dalemma

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    The all or nothing thinking (should we dignify it as 'thinking'?) in this thread just dumbfounds me.

                    Friend is not being 'supportive' if she does anything but STFU and get in line behind her friend's decision, even though this decision appears to be not so well considered (keeping 6 horses together?) and quite final? Again, not buying it.

                    Whenever someone tells me that something is 'the only choice', I am deeply deeply deeply suspicious that they are really saying "La la la, I am covering my ears, I don't want to hear you and I don't want to talk anymore, La la la la."

                    Of course your ill friend is afraid. And helping her with finding homes for her horses, and encouraging her to consider less drastic alternatives is a GOOD way of showing your concern and friendship. Unless OP is an oncologist or a millionaire, she can't solve her friend's illness, but she CAN apply her knowledge of horses and the area and the options to saving these horses from what APPEARS to be an unnecessarily quick demise.

                    The choices aren't "tell friend she is wrong (although it does seem likely she is) or support this bad idea unquestioningly; there are ALWAYS other alternatives. This board is a fabulous resource, and a number of very good suggestions have been made already that if you were a real friend, you would be following up on as I type.

                    The horses need a friend too. One with less impaired judgment than their ill owner.
                    I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
                    I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      I'm sorry, this situation sucks.

                      What often strikes me is that people truly believe that they are the only one capable of loving/looking after their animals. I sort of feel like we borrow them and are lucky enough to have them around but I don't flatter myself into thinking my horse would pine and die if I never saw him again. All of my animals came from bad situations. I have them now and like to think I do my best for them but they could all probably be just as happy if a stranger came into their lives tomorrow and took over. I think that is part of the real reason people take such drastic measures sometimes.....ego.

                      I do understand that bad things happen to animals but who are you to take away the chance for them to have a happy existence with someone else? Does seem a bit selfish really.

                      I hope the woman in question obtains some clarity on this and has a full recovery.
                      "look deep into his pedigree. Look for the name of a one-of-a-kind horse who lends to his kin a fierce tenacity, a will of iron, a look of eagles. Look & know that Slew is still very much with us."

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        In this economy with horses and other animals being starved and not taken care of, euth-ing is the only way to make sure the lady's horses don't end up in a bad situation.
                        Especially in FL where tbs are being given away, and horse killers are slaughtering horses in their pastures and barns for the meat.
                        I don't blame your friend for considering euth-ing her animals.

                        Enjoytheride is absolutely spot on.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by MunchkinsMom View Post
                          There is a gentleman in our area that will do the euthanasia by gunshot and remove the remains. Not that I am recommending it, but it is an option if no vet can be found to do it.

                          Does anyone else find it gravely concerning that there's someone quite prepared to shoot dead totally healthy horses?

                          Originally posted by Friesiancross View Post
                          I thank everyone who has offered up constructive opinions in regards to this post. I knew it would turn into a bit of a train wreck but I did not know that people would resort to kicking below the belt.

                          I originally posted this because I wanted to be able to understand my friends possible decision of euthanizing her horses so I could still be there for her as a friend, without judgement. Many of you have helped me see things from her perspective and I thank you for that. Regardless of the outcome, there will not be a good ending for I fear whever decision my friend makes, it will weigh heavily on her heart.

                          So thank you to all that have offered both sides of the argument to euthanizing and to not euthanizing. And for the rest of you who felt it was more important to impose judgement on me for wanting to understand where my friend was coming from (with a cancer diagnosis) as well as how to be a better friend to her, and perhaps save a few of her animals in the process, I say Karma and may you all live is a drama free, cancer free, and beautiful world where your horses are perfect and you are always right.

                          I have emailed the moderators to close this thread.
                          I personally find your comments a little below the belt. Or passive aggressive.

                          Your friend wants to kill all of her horses because she is of the view without testing the situation that she wouldn't be able to rehome all together and for whatever reason she doesn't want to split up the herd.

                          You've offered to take one horse and she doesn't want you to have it. She wants to kill it along with all the rest and because ....... well there's a silly "reason" about it's them all or none!!!

                          You want to understand the argument. Well personally I don't understand it. It's illogical and it's immoral.

                          And I'll say it again I'm speaking as a Cancer survivor.... so far..... but hey maybe karma will get me because I judged her decision and logic to be irrational and just darned right wrong.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Thomas_1 View Post
                            It doesn't necessarily make you stop being afraid of dying but by gosh it made me so I'm never afraid of living.
                            First I have to say Thomas, I love this. Words we should all live by everyday!

                            To the OP. I don't know how sick your friend is, so I am not going to suppose that she might have a few months, a few years, and how much she will be able to do with those months or years. I hope it is many years! My first thought was I would find homes for them if I was in her position. Then I thought, I have no idea what I would actually do in her position!

                            I think there are some options out there for re-homing. There is a very reputable mini rescue (http://www.chancesminihorserescue.org/) that could probably help with the minis. Talk to her, be supportive, be her friend. I hope the situation works out for the best for your friend and her horses regardless.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by scheherazadetbmare View Post
                              In this economy with horses and other animals being starved and not taken care of, euth-ing is the only way to make sure the lady's horses don't end up in a bad situation.
                              Especially in FL where tbs are being given away, and horse killers are slaughtering horses in their pastures and barns for the meat.
                              I don't blame your friend for considering euth-ing her animals.

                              Enjoytheride is absolutely spot on.
                              Originally posted by enjoytheride View Post
                              Your friend may be dying of cancer and you're more concerned that she finds homes for older unbroke horses?

                              How many threads have their been about horses ending up in bad homes, at auctions, on trucks to Canada?

                              I say put the horses down and support your friend.
                              Heck why stop with this lady's horses. Why not just have a massive cull of every healthy horse in Florida and create some space in the market for more folks to buy some and then discard them by killing them when ownership no longer suits them.

                              I despair of the inhumanity and the fact that there's so little value on the life of healthy animals that serve us for our leisure and pleasure. Killed when you've had enough just to ensure they don't end up erm..... dead!

                              Irrational and disgusting in my opinion.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Horses don't know tomorrow. Horses don't understand the future. Only we do.

                                No judgment here from me, especially since we don't know all the small details of this case. Only best wishes for your friend in what clearly is a difficult time for her.
                                <3 Vinnie <3
                                1992-2010
                                Jackie's Punt ("Bailey") My Finger Lakes Finest Thoroughbred

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  This is such a horrible situation, for you and your friend No one can possibly know what it's like to hear "Hi this is Dr. X and you have breast cancer." Knee jerk reaction? Well sure, who here wouldn't have a knee jerk reaction?

                                  Personally I'd rather see horses humanely euthanized than passed around home to home when things "don't work out." I've seen what can happen when horses end up not working out for the family that bought them, and it's not pleasant.

                                  Of course I can't say for sure, but if I were the friend trying to offer support and help, I'd first try to line up resources to help foster these horses for a few months until the panic and fear subside and there is a better long-term picture of the treatment plan and prognosis.

                                  You could put ads out on Craiglist asking for a cheap but safe place to board them for a couple of months. When I was a kid, we rented a few acres of land and a small horse barn. It was very affordable for my parents until they could purchase the farm we're in now. Or ask all of her friends and family to chip in 100 bucks or something toward their board for the next couple of months.

                                  I was involved in a horse rescuing operation locally here back in the spring. The two owners of an Arab breeding farm just picked up and moved out of state, leaving the horses behind with a few bales of hay and a water tank. The horses were emaciated and I ended up hauling 2 of them out of there to their new homes. I was shocked at the number of people who came out of the woodwork offering to foster or bring hay over, or stop by and water them twice a week, or whatever. Within a week or so they were all in homes waiting for more permanent placement.

                                  So lots of people DO have good hearts, but you have to ask for help.

                                  The guilt that this poor woman might feel if her treatment is successful may be overwhelming. Right now it's probably impossible for her to think that far into the future, but as a friend, try to do this thinking for her. Imagine if a couple of months pass, and her prognosis is very good, treatment is going well, and her horses have all been buried. How will this wreck her emotionally and mentally?

                                  But yes I agree with the others who said that there are far worse things than death. A quick needle is far better than starving to death or being passed around to 7 different unsuitable homes.

                                  So if it was me, I guess I'd try to line up some kind of temporary care for the horses over the next 2 or 3 months to let the panic settle down, then make a more permanent decision. And that decision might in fact be euthanasia but I don't know that I'd encourage the friend to do this just yet.

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    Originally posted by Thomas_1 View Post

                                    Does anyone else find it gravely concerning that there's someone quite prepared to shoot dead totally healthy horses?
                                    Well, she didn't say "no questions asked" and there are some times when you're out of options and it's the KB or the guy with the gun. He might well be willing to come out and shoot and remove your elderly horse, but would balk at taking out four horses and two minis at one go because the owner can't bear to part with them except if they go in a lot. (Heck, he might not be equipped to dispose of six large carcasses at once.)

                                    Horses don't know tomorrow--but that isn't carte blanche to kill the useable with years left just becuase something bad MIGHT happen. Thomas is right, by that logic just kill them when you're done with them, if you sell them they might end up dead! Someone facing a life-threatening illness is not in the best emotional state to make permanent decisions like that. Especially if she's also having fear problems about part of the treatment--it sounds like what she needs more than anything is counseling about the entire situation from someone who can help her come to terms with her diagnosis and maybe help sort out the issues that are worrying her, like the horses. (By which I mean a professional with experience helping patients with serious illnesses, not the OP.)
                                    Author Page
                                    Like Omens In the Night on Facebook
                                    Steampunk Sweethearts

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      I am with Boysnight out here--they dont know and they will have no fear.

                                      The only reason i would hesitate putting them down right now is for her sake--a very selfish reason that she may likely be grieving their loss at a time she needs all the emotonal strenght she can to try to survive. Putting a horse down takes an emotional toll on one.

                                      Lets face it--many people (me included) keep horses alive because we do not want the emtional pain of putting them down. But the horse does not know the difference.

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=259284
                                        I wasn't always a Smurf
                                        Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
                                        "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
                                        The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          Originally posted by Iron Horse Farm View Post
                                          I'll probably get flamed for saying this, but .............how extremely selfish. How sickeningly selfish.

                                          I saw on another thread that only 3-10% of horses sold in the US get shipped for slaughter. Seems awfully unreasonable to kill them when there is a 90% chance that they would get a home.

                                          I understand that she is ill, sounds like she is acting very emotionally and not logically.

                                          People adopt minis. People who thought that they had plenty of horses adopt minis - they don't take a lot of room or a lot of food and they live forever.

                                          I hope that your friend gets better and I hope that her horses get to live also.


                                          Flame away!
                                          No flames here......I feel very sympathetic to the OP friend's situation. But, yes, I agree with you that it is selfish to euthanize healthy animals because you don't want to separate them. Animals do adjust.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X