• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 2/8/18)
See more
See less

Friend w/Cancer may need to Euthanize her 6 horses

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #41
    Originally posted by Iron Horse Farm View Post
    I love my horses so that I want better for them than .....well, not the worst thing that could happen.
    Other people feel that they love their horses enough to not risk sending them to the unknown with the economy the way it is.

    You did read where these middle aged horses are not broke, right?


    You can not toss out there that you love yours more because...... It does not work like that.

    Comment


    • #42
      Owning animals is a private thing, unless you are abusing or neglecting them.

      If this woman chooses to euthanize her horses, so be it...it is her choice.

      It has nothing to do with moral or ethical issues.

      If I was her friend, I would do my best to help her in her decision.

      There are worse things than being owned by GOD.
      save lives...spay/neuter/geld

      Comment


      • #43
        What Iron Horse Farm said.

        And now I'm going to go update my will and figure out how to direct the proceeds of a small life insurance policy to the care of my critters in the event of my demise.

        Because the question isn't, will you die, it's when. Of course that doesn't help one not go bankrupt while trying not to die...

        No one is saying that euthanasia should not be considered for any of these animals. We are saying, "Geez, can't something less drastic be considered first?"
        I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
        I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09

        Comment


        • #44
          Originally posted by Lori B View Post
          What Iron Horse Farm said.

          No one is saying that euthanasia should not be considered for any of these animals. We are saying, "Geez, can't something less drastic be considered first?"
          THIS!!!

          Just because something could happen doesn't mean that it will. This really seems like an "all or nothing" knee jerk reaction. Just because euthanasia isn't the worst thing that could happen doesn't mean that it is the best!
          Holly
          www.ironhorsefrm.com
          Oldenburg foals and young prospects
          LIKE us on Facebook!

          Comment


          • #45
            fivehorses, the fact that animals are property under the law doesn't make the decisions and actions we take as owners exempt from moral and ethical judgment. Sorry.
            I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
            I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by Discobold View Post
              You won't get flamed by me. I agree. And I'm a cancer survivor myself, so I know the fear and anger that comes with a cancer diagnosis, but its not an excuse to do something so selfish

              Some of the responses here assume a breast cancer diagnosis is a death sentence. It rarely is. Do yourself a favor and educate yourself.
              While I agree that the horse owner should wait to euth her horses IF she can care for them until she knows where her own life is going to go I have to say those who are calling her selfish are all butt backwards.
              In mho this is a very unselfish choice because this has to be a very hard choice for her to make.
              As some have pointed out just look how many stories we get of people placing horses in what they have every reason to believe are good and loving homes and then finding out later their horses went straight to auction or are found starved and/or heaven knows what. It isn't like this lady just doesn't want anyone else to have her horses.
              She is trying to take responsibility for her horses as best she can at this point in her life.
              Y'all try to cut her some slack. She doesn't need to be worrying about what will happen to her horses and she doesn't need to be attacked by being called selfish.
              Hopefully she can wait to see and hopefully she will do well and her horses can stay with her
              You know why cowboys don't like Appaloosas?" - Answer: Because to train a horse, you have to be smarter than it is.

              Comment


              • #47
                Originally posted by Iron Horse Farm View Post
                THIS!!!

                Just because something could happen doesn't mean that it will. This really seems like an "all or nothing" knee jerk reaction. Just because euthanasia isn't the worst thing that could happen doesn't mean that it is the best!
                That's exactly what it is. And it's a perfectly expectable reaction in the situation that this woman is in. IF she can get the support she needs to see a better way, then I'm sure a better way will happen. No one is arguing that a better solution can't be found. Some are questioning whether a better solution can be found within the parameters of this woman's situation--she is freaked out, has negligible resources and absolutely no friggin' idea what her future holds. She does not feel she has the time or mental energy to find a better solution.

                When I thought about Dr. Problem-Solver finding some alternative for Monstr, and envisioned someone out there taking him on, trying to ride him, getting hurt, blaming him, or worse, taking it out on him, passing him on ... Yeah, damn straight, euthanasia didn't look so bad. Contemplating that, times six, in the situation I was put in after my diagnosis ... yeah, I can pretty much guarantee at least moments of the same reaction that this woman is having. It is NOT a good place to be, certainly not a good place from which to be making thoughtful, rational, long-term decisions that will take effort, time and resources to effect. When I thought about the mental energy it would take to deal with Dr. Problem-Solver ... well, I didn't even call him, didn't even ask the quesiton; I simply hadn't the energy. I went straight to someone who understood the pressure I was under, who clearly understood the horse's situation, and who was able to be a good friend.

                This woman needs support, she needs a solution that takes no energy or mental effort away from what she is going through. It sounds like the horses may be pasture pets. What is the market for pasture pets right now?

                Yes, there is life after breast cancer. Yes, she may not have a bad time with treatment (but, then again, she may). But no one knows this now. No one. All she has is uncertainty.

                She needs support; she needs someone else to find the better solution so that she might see it. She does not need judgement.
                Last edited by monstrpony; Aug. 24, 2010, 11:12 AM.
                "One person's cowboy is another person's blooming idiot" -- katarine

                Spay and neuter. Please.

                Comment


                • #48
                  I know that the first few days/weeks after diagnosis, I was not angry.. . I was terrified! I thought I was going to die before summer was over! Once surgery happened, I felt I had started the fight. Then chemo started and I knew I was on the right track. If she has just got the diagnosis, she is still in the "Fear" stage. Once the treatment starts, you feel like you are getting back in control. Chemo was not hard on me and in 11 years, I am sure improvements have been made.

                  Of course, being in Canada, there were no financial worries about treatment cost, even if you may not be able to work for a while. In that case, EI or long term disability takes over.

                  This should also be a lesson to people... how many horses does one person really need? I hope she has friends close by and that she reconsiders her options.

                  Still jingling!

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by FalseImpression View Post

                    This should also be a lesson to people... how many horses does one person really need?
                    What a shallow and mean question.

                    The answer is simple. As many as they want and can afford.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by bird4416 View Post
                      And as someone said earlier, how do you find a vet that will euth. healthy horses? I know mine would not unless all other options had been exhausted.

                      You don't need a VET to put horses down, in fact you don't need a Vet to put anything down. Personally I am NOT a fan of chemical euthanasia for horses. I prefer a bullet. I have been a part of horses being destroyed both with chemical and a bullet. I prefer the bullet. Having seen more than one horse "fight" chemical euthanasia I can say I never want to see it again. I know many vets prefer the "ugly" method but OWNER want the "pretty" one where horse "falls asleep in their arms". which works great until their heart just KEEPS pumping and they wont "go". Not to mention the TOXIC carcass left over.

                      Finding a Vet to put her horses down is not the issue and quite frankly has nothing to do with it. All you need to HUMANELY destroy a horse is a trusted friend with a large firearm and good aim.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Euthanizing them doesn't bother me. What does bother me is the owner's refusal to allow them to be split up. That really, really limits any chances they might have had of finding good homes. Very few people have the resources to take on six new horses at once. They'd have a better shot at finding homes if she were willing to split them up. Someone might love to take the minis but not the big horses, while someone else might love the older ones or be looking for a project pony (the unbroke ones).

                        Splitting up a group of horses is not usually a problem for the horses (though it can be for some in certain situations). It's usually a problem for the owner.

                        That said, I firmly believe there are things in this world worse than death, and I can't imagine what's going through her mind right now as she tries to sort this all out.
                        Full-time bargain hunter.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Originally posted by monstrpony View Post
                          Confession time. Been there, done that. When I was diagnosed w/ BC and facing chemo, and had NO idea what it would be like FOR ME, I made the decision to have Monstr put down. He was aged, tho not old (18), and fully retired due to his own health issues. He happened to be doing spectacularly well, for him, at the time this happened, but I knew I was facing having others take care of him and he had a histrionic history of having some major issue just when I needed to have someone else help with him. I had no clear idea how it would all work out financially; everyone assured me it would be "okay" but no one could give me facts and figures; and in fact, no one can--cancer treatment is very individual. Monstr was a huge horse and could be pushy, so he intimidated many people. He was just living out his life with me, and it was his misfortune that crunch time hit when it did.

                          I chose to have him euthanized that spring. It was an *awful* decision to have to make, under the pressure of all of the surgeries and drs appointments, and not knowing what would happen--the not knowing is hell. And I was lucky, I had wonderful insurance; the cancer therapies still cost a bloody fortune.

                          Certainly, my choice would have been to try to find homes for the other two, and the support of my friends through this was a godsend. I was lucky that I didn't have to resort to that.

                          But I fully understand where this woman is coming from--there's only so much you can handle in this situation. You DO reach your limit. She has my profound sympathy and support in whatever she chooses. My first wish is that she didn't have to go through this; my second, that I were closer so I could help out.

                          I did not even ask my equine vet to do it for me; I knew Dr. Problem-Solver would have looked for alternatives, and I just wasn't up for handling that, and I DID NOT BELIEVE that would be the best choice for this horse. I asked my small animal vet, also a horsewoman and a long-time, very good friend. She hated it almost as much as I did, but she did it for me.
                          MP you were VERY brave, bravo for you for making a hard decision for your friend who couldn't make it for himself....
                          HaHA! Made-est Thou Look!

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by RougeEmpire View Post
                            You don't need a VET to put horses down, in fact you don't need a Vet to put anything down. Personally I am NOT a fan of chemical euthanasia for horses. I prefer a bullet. I have been a part of horses being destroyed both with chemical and a bullet. I prefer the bullet. Having seen more than one horse "fight" chemical euthanasia I can say I never want to see it again. I know many vets prefer the "ugly" method but OWNER want the "pretty" one where horse "falls asleep in their arms". which works great until their heart just KEEPS pumping and they wont "go". Not to mention the TOXIC carcass left over.

                            Finding a Vet to put her horses down is not the issue and quite frankly has nothing to do with it. All you need to HUMANELY destroy a horse is a trusted friend with a large firearm and good aim.
                            Me neither, but the problem is if you don't have the gun yourself and don't live out in the boondocks like I do (not being mean, I love the boondocks)...it can be hard to find that friend with a gun who knows how to put down large livestock. Where I used to live, it would be very, very hard to find ANYONE with a gun because good luck getting a permit if you lived in the wrong jurisdiction (I was told to not even bother, despite it being a reasonable self-defense precaution in my case, because the police chief in my town simply wouldn't approve Class A permits, ever.)

                            I wish that vets here did really make a bigger push for the Bell gun and the humane killer. IIRC it's currently still considered a very acceptable method by the BHS and British veterinary board for euthanizing horse. But there IS the matter of blood that clients don't like. (Personally I'm not so big into watching a lethal injection be administered, either.)
                            Author Page
                            Like Omens In the Night on Facebook
                            Steampunk Sweethearts

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              I'll probably get flamed for saying this, but .............how extremely selfish. How sickeningly selfish.
                              agree totally 100%.

                              As a friend, what you need to do is try to convince her to not make such a major decision while she is under such extreme emotional distress.
                              The cure rate for breast cancer is close to 90%, almost 100% for screen-detected early stage breast cancer. How is she going to feel a year from now when she's totally healthy and fine, and she realizes she murdered her pets for no good reason?
                              so talk her out of it. She probably doesn't even have to "place" the animals- if she can hang for a few months it'll be over with. Doesn't she have health insurance to pay for the majority of the treatment costs?

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by trubandloki View Post
                                What a shallow and mean question.

                                The answer is simple. As many as they want and can afford.
                                No, I think it is reality. You have to plan for the bad situation as well as the good one. If she only had one or two, I venture to say she would not be thinking that way.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Thank you, False Impression.
                                  I tolerate all kinds of animal idiosyncrasies.
                                  I've found that I don't tolerate people idiosyncrasies as well. - Casey09

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    There is a gentleman in our area that will do the euthanasia by gunshot and remove the remains. Not that I am recommending it, but it is an option if no vet can be found to do it.

                                    As a 15 year breast cancer survivor, all I can say is each person is an individual as to how they react to the news, how well they recover from treatment, etc. I am a firm believer that mental attitude is 50% of the success rate.

                                    I do not blame this woman for considering this option, but I did have trouble with the statement that she didn't want to seperate the horses. I hope some gentle persuasion can help her to consider that option.

                                    There are also many rescue groups here that may be able to help, by locating potential foster or adoptive homes.

                                    I have had this discussion with my vet, after a head injury, I contemplated what would happen to my horses if I were to die. I have 2 older (27 and 23) horses that are retired, and at the time of the conversation, my youngest horse was very high maintenance in the health department. My vet said that under MY circumstances, she would have no issue with euthanizing all 3 horses in the event of my death. I do not want to burden my family or friends with my responsibilities, and I do not want my horses to end up in a bad place. However, this is only in the event of my death, or complete incapacitation, that I would consider this. I personally would exhaust all other options if I were in the OP's friends position.

                                    I do agree that she needs all the support and friendship and positive attitudes that she can get right now, so flaming her for even considering this painful option is counterproductive.
                                    There are friends and faces that may be forgotten, but there are horses that never will be. - Andy Adams

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #58
                                      Originally posted by enjoytheride View Post
                                      Your friend may be dying of cancer and you're more concerned that she finds homes for older unbroke horses?

                                      How many threads have their been about horses ending up in bad homes, at auctions, on trucks to Canada?

                                      I say put the horses down and support your friend.
                                      First of all, I am being her friend first. I resent this comment and I am REQUESTING an apology. Totally uncalled for!!!

                                      I have been there for her in regards to her cancer issues. I am trying my best not to form any opinion or judge her on whatever decision she makes when it comes to her horses. The last thing my friend needs is a horsey friend making a judgement on how she chooses to handle a life altering decision. I am also doing the exact same thing when it comes to how she is opting to be treated for her BC. She has many options and some are better than others, where some are more agressive than others as well. She was given an treatment plan that included a shot every 2 weeks and she is terrified of needles and she is terrified of this option (although is unfortunately sounds like one of the best). I am not going to judge her for not taking this option because the stress of the needles is going to send her into an emotional breakdown.

                                      I knew when I posted this, people would offer their opinions, but I did not think that people would be outright cruel (as in the quote above).

                                      My friend may die and I am only trying to gather information that may rest her heart if a good home could be found for at least a few of her animals. But she is also of the mindset that she has seen too many horses be given away to homes and then get passed on and on until they are in their own hell. Euthanizing them would be something that she could do with a clear heart knowing that they would not suffer in the long run. Would I do it, perhaps to one of my older guys but I would find a home for the sound younger one. But I am not possibly dying of cancer.

                                      Why cant people be proactive instead of throwing a poster under the bus the first chance they get.
                                      Keep in mind...normal is just a dryer setting.~anonymous

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        I think there have been plenty of proactive suggestions. But she's the only one who can ultimately decide what to do, so that's all they are.

                                        (And if you want to offer her any 'been there' advice, tell her I was terrified of needles, too, and hated just getting shots, until I was diagnosed with and nearly died from an autoimmune disease that required transfusions, IVs, and weekly blood tests for nearly a year. I still don't exactly LOVE getting shots, but it's not terrifying any more. It really does get better, even when you think it won't, and while some chemo and anti-immune meds SUCK, the side effects do get better and it's worth it when you don't feel sick after the treatment's over. Besides me, there's my cousin, who is about fifteen years on from treatment for advanced non-Hodgkin's--now, he was lucky as he did have a perfect marrow match from his sister, but the treatment, especially the transplant, was HORRIBLE and he felt like death, but it can and does get better.)
                                        Author Page
                                        Like Omens In the Night on Facebook
                                        Steampunk Sweethearts

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by Iron Horse Farm View Post
                                          THIS!!!
                                          This really seems like an "all or nothing" knee jerk reaction. J!
                                          No one but the woan knows what her doiagnosis truly is. It may be advanced cancer to the point where the long term prognisis is poor. She may be truly past her limit for dealing with what could, for her, be a catastrophic event. This may be a devastating decision for her to make on top of other devastating decisions. none of us knows for sure.

                                          If it were me. I would just try and be a good friend to this woman and support her however I could, even if that meant supporting her in euthanizing her horses. If the OP is an intimate enough friend to understand all that is truly going on in depth and still believes that it is a decision made in haste and panic, than perhaps OP can work with this woman's spouse to help her deal in a more productive way.

                                          I personally feel that the friend needs to be treated with dignity and respect and posting on a public BB is selfish and not in the best interests of the friend who is going through this ordeal. I would be pretty upset if the OP were my friend, no matter how well intentioned -to open me up to judgement to a bunch of strangers with only part of a one sided story.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X