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  • I assume that you people that are calling her out for sending that photo never post pics of your own kids on Facebook, right?

    Nothing on the internet is private. Facebook does have some privacy settings, which I utilize but I guess this mom didn't. I do not think sending this photo put the child at risk AT ALL. Or if it did, she's about at risk as she was before when her mom posted her photo all over the internet.

    The OP probably should not have sent the photo but if you're all upset about a anonymous photo getting sent through a PM then you should be equally upset with all the moms posting a gazillion pics of their half naked toddlers on Facebook.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by FitzE View Post
      Sorry, child safety is a hill I'm willing to die on. You're not too bothered about it, we get it. Calling out bad behaviour with respect to children by "professionals" who work with children is not feeling a little bit superior. Your attempt to minimize the importance is useless. Adults know this is the one of if not the most important challenge facing the sport today and adults are talking so maybe sit down. You can't be arsed to care. Got it.
      I’ve been following along and I feel the OP made a bad decision in the heat of the moment. The poster involved in this whole mess is an alter of someone previously banned. Yes it was wrong and I’m willing to bet the OP sees that. I’m also willing to bet she wasn’t expecting the poster to announce it. If I received a PM such as that I would tell the sender in a PM not cool. I wouldn’t put it out there for a public flogging.

      Then again this is CoTH and beating the proverbial dead horse and dying on hills is normal.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by FitzE View Post
        Sorry, child safety is a hill I'm willing to die on. You're not too bothered about it, we get it. Calling out bad behaviour with respect to children by "professionals" who work with children is not feeling a little bit superior. Your attempt to minimize the importance is useless. Adults know this is the one of if not the most important challenge facing the sport today and adults are talking so maybe sit down. You can't be arsed to care. Got it.
        Not sure I'd really call this a "child safety" issue. Trainer has a very overweight student and people doubted that her estimate of weight was accurate. Her intentions in sending a redacted photo (from a public website) was only to try to give context to the situation, not to harm, shame or injure a child. In fact, concerns about the child's weight are a legitimate "child safety" issue. Riders need to be able to manage their own weight in the saddle or they will come off and get hurt. Not everyone is capable of doing that, and an unfit and very overweight student is the perfect recipe for falling off a horse and getting hurt.

        As has been mentioned, I'm sure the OP regrets sharing the photo.

        I'm not sure this is a hill anyone needs to die on. It seems bizarre that you are so keen to, though.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by FitzE View Post
          The driving on the grass and interrupting a lesson would have been deal breakers for me. If that's how they behave from go, it will only get worse/less respectful.

          However, I want to raise an issue I see here from a child safety standpoint. While the OP doesn't need to have a horse to accommodate every body type, nor accept everyone who comes in off the street, the sending of the photo is a major red flag. OP could have been 100% in the right and a saint for even trying to figure out how to work with this child, but negated all that by crossing a line with that action.

          I am very involved in the child-safety training at my child's school. I was the lead non-admin drafter of the child-safety policy and involved in the presentation and implementation of that policy. I work each year with the outside body that comes to review the school and evaluate our child-safety system. The sharing of any picture of a child, even with face blurred, even if it was publicly available, would be a violation of our policy for which the result is dismissal. It's THAT inappropriate. EVEN if there is substantive evidence that the share was done with a positive purpose ("Look at my great student who just won an award!") AND the parents aren't upset.

          The bottom line: that is behaviour that indicates the adult in question insufficiently understands the gravity of their actions and doesn't respect the privacy of the child and the fundamentals of child safety. That person cannot be put in a position to work with children. There is no gray area: you do not share photos of a child who is not your child when you are in a teacher/trainer/coach/admin position, full stop. There are waivers for pictures taken at school activities, sporting events, and extra-curricular activities. But the idea that a teacher/coach/admin would take a photo of a student from that student's family facebook page and share it is beyond belief.

          Given that in this case the point was to draw attention to the child's body (either positively or negatively) makes it even more egregious - actually outrageous, if I'm being honest. If my child were a client at this barn, I would pull her immediately. Not b/c the OP cannot accommodate larger riders, but b/c the OP so glaringly crossed a line that no one who works with children should ever even consider let alone actually do. I'm stunned that a person whose profession it is to work with children didn't recognize this as a gross violation of their duty with respect to child safety. Stunned.


          well this is an interesting post and an interesting standard. People do seem to think that others who have not have the same training that they have should be held up to the same standards. It seems you’re suggesting that even if someone has not been exposed to this training that they should uphold the standards of your own personal training. Is that correct?
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          • Originally posted by FitzE View Post

            People here are discussing weight perfectly rationally. There is overwhelming sympathy for OP not having a horse suitable to the task. There's even support for not liking this family's general behaviour. She lost that support from a subsection of posters who find her conduct with respect to the child's image outrageous for someone who puts herself out as qualified to work with children for pay.

            The issue is not a googled image of "overweight 11 year old" or whatever search terms you would have googled. OP went to the family member's facebook page, copied an image of a specific child known to her, blurred the face, and shared that image to on an online platform with anonymous users solely to prove she was right. I'm sure you can appreciate the distinction between that and doing a google search and why it is unacceptable NOT understandable.

            I'm glad Ms. ReSomething told you about her school's basic child safety policy regarding images. That's great and that's how the information will spread and more people will be educated. You, however, have a lower burden to meet with respect to that knowledge. Yes, you did not know until you were told, but you also don't (to our knowledge in this exchange) choose to make a living by representing yourself as someone who should be paid to work with children. If you do, as the OP does, there is absolutely no excuse to not know the basics. Ignorance is not excuse for such a violation.
            That is complete bologna. There is no national certification for ANYTHING in the horse industry. And good luck getting a national riding instructors standard established.

            this discussion sounds very much like what police officers say when they insist that THEIR training should dictate how people who are NOT trained should behave when coping with police. This whole “ I am trained, therefor this is how you should” theory is nonsense. Magical Thinking, if anything.
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            Comment


            • Originally posted by FitzE View Post
              Sorry, child safety is a hill I'm willing to die on. You're not too bothered about it, we get it. Calling out bad behaviour with respect to children by "professionals" who work with children is not feeling a little bit superior. Your attempt to minimize the importance is useless. Adults know this is the one of if not the most important challenge facing the sport today and adults are talking so maybe sit down. You can't be arsed to care. Got it.
              Apparently not so desperate to “die on that hill” that you identify yourself though are you? You’re only interested in dying anonymously?
              "Friend" me !

              http://www.facebook.com/isabeau.solace

              Comment


              • Originally posted by enjoytheride View Post

                But the OP is LONG GONE and you've made half a dozen posts about what a horrible person she was. She made a mistake, probably regrets it, and now can no longer come to this BB For advice on how to address an obese child. She has zero chances of recovery and apparently should burn in hell for her mistake. Which means the child doesn't get to interact with horses or lessons and the instructor can't realize her mistake and become a better instructor after it. So in reality, you've helped nobody.


                Obesity is a touchy subject. While several posters addressed it in a rational manner, others got worked up about a child being called obese and said that the instructor was the problem, not the child. How do we address obesity in this country if a sports instructor can't find open advice about how to deal with the situation? It being a taboo subject probably led to the instructor sharing the photo out of frustration, and now thanks to you drilling it home over and over and over she can't learn from her mistake and make the right choices to help this child.
                Yes.
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                Comment


                • Originally posted by S1969 View Post
                  I just want to know if they showed up for the lesson or not.
                  Meeee too!!!!!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Beck View Post

                    Actually: no. Any picture of a child is someone's child. How does obtaining it from a google search make it any more acceptable?
                    The image has also been misrepresented as having been posted to the group, which I don't think it was, because as I understand it it was sent to one person privately. Unfortunately for the op, that apparently, wasn't someone she should have trusted to be discreet. Good lesson for all of us.

                    Images of others' children are published in news publications all the time, with the faces blurred, so I can certainly understand how someone might think that was sufficiently anon. Not only that, but the adults in the images are often identified, which means that the children can be much more easily identified.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by lenapesadie View Post
                      This thread is a train wreck already so I don’t feel bad adding my terrible response.

                      I have issues with conflict management. If I was the OP, I would have probably called and canceled the lesson. I would have likely lied through my teeth to avoid teaching the poor kid. One of my horses went lame / I adopted a rescue dog with major issues / I forgot I have yoga every night for the rest of my life / one of my students has decided to lease my school pony / some bull corn. I’m a terrible person, but there ya go.

                      If I was having a really brave day, I might have been straight with the parents. Super sorry but I don’t have a horse suitable for your daughter. But highly unlikely I’d have the guts to be honest with the parents.

                      I personally don’t see the use in doing a ground work only lesson with a child that I know I don’t have a horse they can ride. That seems like a tease.

                      All in all, I am grateful that I’m not in the OP’s situation
                      I too would have just dealt with it head on, and said "I don't have a horse suitable for your child to learn on". Perhaps too blunt--but the welfare of my animals always trumps all else.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Isabeau Z Solace View Post



                        well this is an interesting post and an interesting standard. People do seem to think that others who have not have the same training that they have should be held up to the same standards. It seems you’re suggesting that even if someone has not been exposed to this training that they should uphold the standards of your own personal training. Is that correct?
                        That and all us folks who don't have this extra speshul training are relegated to being "in the back", because somehow now no one else is allowed to have an opinion either.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by TheMoo View Post

                          I’ve been following along and I feel the OP made a bad decision in the heat of the moment. The poster involved in this whole mess is an alter of someone previously banned. Yes it was wrong and I’m willing to bet the OP sees that. I’m also willing to bet she wasn’t expecting the poster to announce it. If I received a PM such as that I would tell the sender in a PM not cool. I wouldn’t put it out there for a public flogging.

                          Then again this is CoTH and beating the proverbial dead horse and dying on hills is normal.
                          The OP followed up the post about the picture being PMd with a second nasty PM.... I don't think sending a comment via PM would have changed much.
                          Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                          http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Ruth0552 View Post
                            I assume that you people that are calling her out for sending that photo never post pics of your own kids on Facebook, right?

                            Nothing on the internet is private. Facebook does have some privacy settings, which I utilize but I guess this mom didn't. I do not think sending this photo put the child at risk AT ALL. Or if it did, she's about at risk as she was before when her mom posted her photo all over the internet.

                            The OP probably should not have sent the photo but if you're all upset about a anonymous photo getting sent through a PM then you should be equally upset with all the moms posting a gazillion pics of their half naked toddlers on Facebook.
                            That's not really how it works.

                            If I post pics of my kid on my private Facebook page, that's not license for anyone to share pictures of any kid unrelated to them, in any way.
                            Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                            http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                            Comment


                            • How does anyone know OP is a poster who was previously banned?
                              Last edited by Chall; Nov. 18, 2019, 12:59 AM. Reason: ETA : making it a complete sentence.

                              Comment


                              • I don't think they meant OP I think they meant Gessafelstein is the reicarnated banned poster. Based on the pot stirring, that would be my guess.
                                Last edited by Rallycairn; Nov. 17, 2019, 08:39 PM.
                                If thou hast a sorrow, tell it not to the arrow, tell it to thy saddlebow, and ride on, singing. -- King Alfred the Great

                                Comment


                                • I think it's just more pot-stirring to call a poster a reincarnated banned poster. There just isn't any proof. Someone is claiming that on another thread too with a very weak claim that the new poster's handle is a pet from their other user ID.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Angela Freda View Post

                                    That's not really how it works.

                                    If I post pics of my kid on my private Facebook page, that's not license for anyone to share pictures of any kid unrelated to them, in any way.
                                    Your Facebook page is not private. Full stop. It does not belong to you.

                                    And, if your PUBLIC Facebook page has photos on it (most do), then anyone can snoop at your page and do whatever they want with those photos.

                                    Honestly, this is getting ridiculous. Why are we still talking about this?

                                    Comment


                                    • To the topic of sharing the photo..

                                      Here's the thing that keeps sticking in my head and maybe is worth considering very carefully for professionals.

                                      If I am paying a professional (in this case, equestrian trainer, but it could also be a dietician, a gym/fitness trainer, personal shopper, etc) to assist me, I expect them to have my best interests in mind. Sharing a photo of me goes against my best interests. I would be furious if I found out that my (insert professional of choice here) were sharing images of me without my explicit permission. Legality may not come into it, but if I found out someone I were paying for services was doing this, I would immediately quit and would, in all honestly, probably very loudly and very publicly share what they had done to me because I consider it a breech of trust.

                                      When one looks at this through the lens of professionalism: sharing photos of (even potential) clients is not a wise choice to make. Not for any reason, and especially not in a situation like this where the OP seemed to have done it to "prove" that their claims about the child's estimated weight were not that far out of the ballpark (when, to earlier posts, the OP didn't actually need to prove the child's weight hit any estimated projection at all - "regardless of weight, the child's size is not a good match for any of my lesson horses" would have been enough). While the OP isn't, to my knowledge, throwing her name and program out left and right so I, at least, do not know who she is IRL, there are many posters in various locations throughout the internet who either publicly link their businesses to their internet persona or make it very easy to identify who they are through a few key facts. Anonymity is rarely as secure as we like to believe it is, and making unprofessional choices in our behavior on the internet (if we identify ourselves as a professional on the internet) is generally not a smart choice to make.

                                      My facebook settings are private. If I contact a barn through facebook and they sleuth through what images of me are accessible, and then share photos of me in a discussion elsewhere, I'm sorry - legally it may not be an issue, but business ethics indicate this is pretty indefensible.

                                      "Just because you can doesn't mean you should" applies here - even though people may have more public settings on facebook, may post photos on social media in the first place, does not mean they should have to gird themselves in anticipation of people sharing those photos left and right. Likewise for a professional contacted in a situation like this, just because a profile may be public and a photo may be accessible, does not mean it is a good defense for taking the image and sharing it in any way.

                                      Don't be identified in your business (or even social!) community as the person who does this. It's not cool. Seriously.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Edre View Post
                                        To the topic of sharing the photo..

                                        Here's the thing that keeps sticking in my head and maybe is worth considering very carefully for professionals.

                                        If I am paying a professional (in this case, equestrian trainer, but it could also be a dietician, a gym/fitness trainer, personal shopper, etc) to assist me, I expect them to have my best interests in mind. Sharing a photo of me goes against my best interests. I would be furious if I found out that my (insert professional of choice here) were sharing images of me without my explicit permission. Legality may not come into it, but if I found out someone I were paying for services was doing this, I would immediately quit and would, in all honestly, probably very loudly and very publicly share what they had done to me because I consider it a breech of trust.

                                        When one looks at this through the lens of professionalism: sharing photos of (even potential) clients is not a wise choice to make. Not for any reason, and especially not in a situation like this where the OP seemed to have done it to "prove" that their claims about the child's estimated weight were not that far out of the ballpark (when, to earlier posts, the OP didn't actually need to prove the child's weight hit any estimated projection at all - "regardless of weight, the child's size is not a good match for any of my lesson horses" would have been enough). While the OP isn't, to my knowledge, throwing her name and program out left and right so I, at least, do not know who she is IRL, there are many posters in various locations throughout the internet who either publicly link their businesses to their internet persona or make it very easy to identify who they are through a few key facts. Anonymity is rarely as secure as we like to believe it is, and making unprofessional choices in our behavior on the internet (if we identify ourselves as a professional on the internet) is generally not a smart choice to make.

                                        My facebook settings are private. If I contact a barn through facebook and they sleuth through what images of me are accessible, and then share photos of me in a discussion elsewhere, I'm sorry - legally it may not be an issue, but business ethics indicate this is pretty indefensible.

                                        "Just because you can doesn't mean you should" applies here - even though people may have more public settings on facebook, may post photos on social media in the first place, does not mean they should have to gird themselves in anticipation of people sharing those photos left and right. Likewise for a professional contacted in a situation like this, just because a profile may be public and a photo may be accessible, does not mean it is a good defense for taking the image and sharing it in any way.

                                        Don't be identified in your business (or even social!) community as the person who does this. It's not cool. Seriously.
                                        Some folks here are working very hard to ignore the obvious. IF the OP was perfect then she would NOT have had to ASK the question. Your suggestion that OP does NOT have “best interests in mind” makes no sense. She came to ask questions precisely BECAUSE she did have the ‘best interests’ in mind, and did not KNOW HOW BEST TO PROCEED.

                                        Respondents then decided that the BIGGEST issue was that the weight estimate was incorrect, and so OP felt the need to demonstrate (via photo.)

                                        Evidently, COTH is not a good place for professionals to SEEK GUIDANCE. OP knows this now.

                                        OP there is a pretty active group on Facebook for Riding Instructors. I can recommend it as a useful resource.

                                        As for those seeking “death on a hill” and decrying “lack of professionalism,” do you feel that you have contributed positively to the development of professionals with your post here? Has this professional gained concrete information to move forward? Does the desired “death on a hill” help our industry in these situations?
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                                        • Some of you don't understand Facebook. It depends solely on your privacy settings. If you have your page locked down, all they can see is what you've elected for them to see (some settings are automatic, like profile picture and cover photo, and you have to search a bit to change the setting on old pictures but current one is always public). It is not until you've accepted a friend request, giving them permission to access the content on your page, that they can see your page... unless your settings are public. Lots of people's settings are public.

                                          Still not condoning what the OP did, though I understand why she did it.
                                          COTH's official mini-donk enabler

                                          "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl

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