Stallion Spotlight

Feinrich-Nr_1-12-18-10-074 Beelitz

Real Estate Spotlight

untitled (115 of 123)-Edit
  • Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You�re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it�details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums� policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it�s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users� profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses � Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it�s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who�s selling it, it doesn�t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions � Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services � Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products � While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements � Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be �bumped� excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues � Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators� discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you�d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user�s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

Clicker/Bridge/Target

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Clicker/Bridge/Target

    I’ve gotten into R+ the past several months. Now that I am over the initial ‘getting started’ hump, I am really getting into it. I have several horses I am working with and more available if I want.

    Audited 2 clinics, joined a 1x/month study group, following FB pages, binging podcasts, & planning on attending a conference in Feb or March 2020.

    Any other clicker enthusiasts around here?
    "Friend" me !

    http://www.facebook.com/isabeau.solace

  • #2
    My mare took to clicker training immediately and I have used it primarily for tricks training on the ground. It has become faster and faster for her to learn a new trick, if I can elicit the behaviour and click treat she will now learn a trick in 10 minutes and retain it.

    The plus side. She has become much more attentive to human interaction on the ground than most horses. She actively tries to train humans now. She does not mug pockets for treats anymore but rather stands back and "smiles" or brings me her stall Pilates ball. It fixed being girthy, standing nice to mount and dismount, and soaking a hoof in a bucket.

    The minus side. Clicker training for riding didn't work because it reinforced her balky tendencies. It was initially useful in teaching a sliding stop but then she started offering stops or getting pissy because no treat was on offer.

    Clicker and treat also won't over ride real pain, real fear or anxiety, or real excitement. So good ground manners and understanding pressure release (R-) are also part of the mix, as is punishment when horse really does misbehave. Maresy hasn't warranted punishment in years but if she tried to bite or kick the sky would fall in on her (P+).

    I love her alert intelligent look when we are learning a new trick and I love how she gets creative about suggesting we start a clicker session.

    It's just not the whole picture and I have no patience for the school of clicker training that says you need to go 100 % R + on moral grounds. I think that actually fails the horse.

    Dr Andrew Macclean has good explanations of how R+, R-, and P+ work.

    Comment


    • #3
      Absolutely! It’s a lovely tool to have at your disposal! If your horse has a solid understanding of the marker then it can be infinitely useful. Enjoy!

      Comment


      • #4
        Raises hand !!!

        I do it ------------ CT/+R with my new horse (of two years).

        I knew nothing of his history - couldn't connect with him.

        CT/+R has made all the difference in the world. Now we speak the same language. We both love it.

        I mostly trail ride with him - and CT/+R has helped tremendously.

        And now I can say I have a push button horse. !!!!! On the trails, anyway.

        For arena riding - I don't know. I've read it can be done. I'm inclined to believe it.

        When I got this horse - (his age: late teens) and before doing CT with him - I tried a bit of dressage with him.
        It was very frustrating - and humbling.
        In my former life - pre Lyme Disease - I was schooling second level on perfect pony.

        I rode him (new horse) with a bit or bitless.
        Then came the first summer sore on his mouth.
        Only way to ride was in a halter or bitless.
        Nothin' doin' getting him "on the bit" with a bitless. Or the very basic - head down. With a bit even worse.

        It started to dawn on me that maybe this horse had been ridden western - of which I am basically clueless.
        So - days after an awful arena ride - I rode with my clicker.
        I asked for a slow trot - no contact. (very strange for me - asking for and trotting with no contact).

        Horsey seemed to prefer this. "Head down" got CT's. "Head in the clouds" - got nothing.
        He learned. I learned. It was awesome.

        It's been months since we've done that - and plan to do it again soon.

        I think with the clicker he will get the idea of head down - and probably think it's his idea.
        Then build from there.

        Comment


        • #5
          I do CT with my Haflinger gelding!! We just started last Fall, since I wasn't riding him (he was only 3), just for something fun to do really. I normally just do dressage and trail riding. I bought a few books and joined a Clicker Training FB group. He LOVES it and picks things up really quickly. I posted some video of one of our CT sessions on the FB group and got bunch of negative feedback because during some of the tricks, I touch him. Apparently that's a huge sin in the R+ community. It was pretty discouraging. I haven't posted anything on there since.

          I know next to nothing about 100% R+ training. I don't know anyone personally that does this with their horses. I don't understand how you can train a horse - and ride it - without ever using any pressure. Someone posted a question on that FB group asking how to get her horse to stop eating grass while she's bringing him in from the paddock using R+. That really puzzles me. It seems to me that horses use pressure and negative reinforcement with each other, it's natural and it is what they understand. I don't know.

          grayarabs - I taught my gelding to lower his head on command from the ground. Now I just say "down" and he lowers his head. When I started him under saddle, it actually helped us. His natural tendency was to trot with his head up, and using the voice command helped him to learn how to trot properly.

          Would love to know of some groups that practice CT but aren't judgy about people that are using it in addition to their "normal" (non-R+) training. Would also love to hear of some of the tricks people have taught their horses. I'm kind of stuck right now with our current repertoire.



          Comment


          • #6
            I was going to clicker train my younger horse, but he twigged that "Good boy!" meant he'd done the right thing, and he is highly food motivated. He learned some behavior quicker than I expected before I realized I was effectively clicker training and I started using it deliberately. We never got to the clicker. "Good boy!" or "Good (verbal command)!" is equivalent to a click for him.

            I did use it for under saddle work because he was anxious about getting the "right answer." He would slam on the brakes and turn his head for his carrot when he was really worried - "you want THAT?!" It never became problem because once he was confident about doing the right thing I'd say "Good boy!" and he would puff up a bit and keep going with an "I know!" attitude.


            I did do a bit of clicker training with my older horse when he was four and healing from an injury. He is not food motivated and once we got back to ridden work he was totally uninterested in clicker work. He's not a horse that needs that style of training anyway.

            The horse before him was so focused on the food that he couldn't connect his own behavior with the click/reward. I might have been able to break through eventually but we didn't need it to train anything, it was just a game to play.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by RedHorses View Post
              I was going to clicker train my younger horse, but he twigged that "Good boy!" meant he'd done the right thing, and he is highly food motivated. He learned some behavior quicker than I expected before I realized I was effectively clicker training and I started using it deliberately. We never got to the clicker. "Good boy!" or "Good (verbal command)!" is equivalent to a click for him.
              You don't need to use a 'clicker' to get the same results

              I train my dogs to a mark word 'yes' rather than using an actual clicker 'click' to indicate the desired word.

              Clickers do make a nice, sharp sound but words work really just as well (at least in my experience).

              Maybe the reason I love animals so much is because the only time they have broken my heart is when they've crossed that rainbow bridge

              Comment


              • #8
                Where'sMyWhite I read about one woman who used a flashlight "click" to train a deaf dog!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Where'sMyWhite View Post

                  You don't need to use a 'clicker' to get the same results

                  I train my dogs to a mark word 'yes' rather than using an actual clicker 'click' to indicate the desired word.

                  Clickers do make a nice, sharp sound but words work really just as well (at least in my experience).
                  I transitioned to a single loud tongue click instead of a clicker because of needing both my hands free with horse.

                  You need a sound distinct from anything else you say.

                  My mare has a tendency to halt suddenly if you say anything with a long 0 sound or a W first letter.

                  No, so..., oh!, and of course GO!

                  And once I decided to count trot stride lengths and she slammed on the brakes when I said One.

                  So yeah she's good at extrapolating. The clicker word needs to be distinct from anything else you will say to the horse or even around the horse.

                  One day we were out riding and maresy got fascinated by some folks walking golden retrievers from the therapy dog training center. Turns out they were using clickers which she had heard at a distance and I hadn't. We had a nice visit with them!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    When I was a teenager and my horse was hurt, I clicker trained him to fetch a stuffed animal for me, and then to pick up a (partially deflated) basketball in his mouth and shoot it into a kiddie basketball hoop. I had great dreams of making it onto Letterman's animal tricks segment....

                    I guess never did try to use it for anything actually useful! ha!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      My mare does a little Christmas performance for an audience of kids. Mostly at liberty but I put on a long lead rope if she gets distracted.

                      First she goes and fetches some Christmas decorations one at a time and I put them on a little tree. Then we dance around a little. Then she has to lie down and go to sleep and wait for Santa. While she's doing that an elf brings in her present, which is her Pilates ball. Then we play noseball for a minute. And then lots of smiling at the kids.

                      There arent an infinite number of tricks out there but the key is putting them together into a performance that you can make look fun. I always toss an odd thing like a glove or a hat into the pile of ribbons and bows so when maresy brings me the glove I can say, we don't put this on a Christmas tree, do we kids? And then I toss it away and she brings it back and I toss it away again and she brings it back and I say Ok if you really insist i will put it on the tree.

                      Our Christmas Open House is hands down maresy's favorite day of the year. Unfortunately we have to miss it this year. ;(


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I did this with my food-motivated, very intelligent mare. Her "click" is just the word "good." I used to teach her to stand with no one holding her for shots (previously needle phobic), deworming, easy bridling and also taught her to smile and bow on cue. I have never used it for under saddle work. Work under saddle is very much based on pressure and release, and she also knows the concept on the ground.

                        What's interesting is that since she learned both a physical cue and a word for the the tricks, she seems to have put two and two together and picked up other words for cues very easily (even if not taught by clicker training). She already knew "whoa," but now she knows "back," and "reverse" for changing direction on the lunge line. She knows "down" for putting her head down and "graze" for when it's OK to graze (you should see how fast her head flies down to the grass when I say the word graze).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Could anyone recommend a good book for clicker training? I have never used it, but have heard of quite a few success stories..I am always trying to learn new ways of doing things, and it sounds like this might be something to add as another training tool for my back pocket!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I do R+ mostly for groundwork. My gelding sure does perk up when he sees me put the treat bag on my waist! His halts are amazing and it feels like he reads my mind a bit since he's watching so intently.

                            I have used it to help with mounting and it's been over two weeks of near-perfect mounting so it's safe to say it worked. I was nervous to feed from the saddle so I put it off for months. He goes to the mounting block and turns his head to the right to wait for his treat (ha, guess I should click when his head is neutral instead of to the side!). Loose reins and all. When I first got him six months ago it was normal to have to take 30-60 minutes of patience while he jigged and wiggled and evaded. Lots of tears. Yay R+.

                            I want to use R+ for head down, graze, and maybe try some more trick-like actions (fetch, bow, lay down, roll, etc.). "Gooood!" and "Good boy!" have become encouraging signals that a click is coming, although I think the intermittent reinforcement (since sometimes I say Good and click, and sometimes I just say Good when a click is coming) has made those phrases more important than the click sound! Whoops.

                            I also incorporate Intrinzen-inspired play but I'm not very good at setting up such an environment yet. My horse does love crunches on the mat and we're doing pool noodle pantherwalk intros. Catch the bag hasn't been as fruitful yet.

                            I understand the tribes around R+. There are those who think it's ALL you should do and on the opposite side so many people think it's just plain wrong to "bribe" horses and treats make them spoiled and nippy. So it can be hard to find groups to dig into it to just learn and experiment. I end up just doing what works for me and I left a lot of click/R+ groups because they were so purist and it was hard to handle that as a lurking beginner.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I do some clickertraining with my big gelding. It has helped him overcome his fears of motorcycles and ATVs (due to past trauma), has let us to go on woodland walks at liberty as he has a perfect recall, and I've used it to teach him how to recognize colors, letters, pictures of farm animal species and to count. It's also been very useful in teaching him politeness around food, while his hooves are being trimmed and during saddling/mounting. Overall an extremely useful tool to have upon your sleeve, although I haven't yet transferred it to riding, except for a VERY effective vocal cue I can use even as emergency brakes while out trail riding.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by grayarabs View Post
                                Raises hand !!!

                                I do it ------------ CT/+R with my new horse (of two years).

                                I knew nothing of his history - couldn't connect with him.

                                CT/+R has made all the difference in the world. Now we speak the same language. We both love it.

                                I mostly trail ride with him - and CT/+R has helped tremendously.

                                And now I can say I have a push button horse. !!!!! On the trails, anyway.

                                For arena riding - I don't know. I've read it can be done. I'm inclined to believe it.

                                When I got this horse - (his age: late teens) and before doing CT with him - I tried a bit of dressage with him.
                                It was very frustrating - and humbling.
                                In my former life - pre Lyme Disease - I was schooling second level on perfect pony.

                                I rode him (new horse) with a bit or bitless.
                                Then came the first summer sore on his mouth.
                                Only way to ride was in a halter or bitless.
                                Nothin' doin' getting him "on the bit" with a bitless. Or the very basic - head down. With a bit even worse.

                                It started to dawn on me that maybe this horse had been ridden western - of which I am basically clueless.
                                So - days after an awful arena ride - I rode with my clicker.
                                I asked for a slow trot - no contact. (very strange for me - asking for and trotting with no contact).

                                Horsey seemed to prefer this. "Head down" got CT's. "Head in the clouds" - got nothing.
                                He learned. I learned. It was awesome.

                                It's been months since we've done that - and plan to do it again soon.

                                I think with the clicker he will get the idea of head down - and probably think it's his idea.
                                Then build from there.
                                Also consider that many "western" horses are never really trained, just ridden any one way.
                                Many kids playday events, many team penners and ropers ride their horses with heads in laps, one rein shorter than another, jerk and kick type riding and it works for them, horses are confused but eventually catch onto what they are doing.
                                Then they try their best to ignore the rider and do the job.

                                There is less of that today, but is still very much so for many horses.

                                If so, your horse may just not have much real training, so starting from the basics would maybe help to fill in whatever holes in his education you may find, like riding with proper contact.

                                As for clicker training, operant conditioning, good trainers have used some of that always.
                                Today is more technical, several of us have used it on horses, just curious, one more way to train.
                                Much of the training today comes from the dog world, where it is easier to learn and use, dogs come primed for that kind of interactive training anyway.
                                One lady in our dog training club then taught her horse to do some reining movements with the specific clicker techniques and had him turning around on it's own right away.
                                Then, as she described it, must have reinforced a very low head cue, so now she had a horse spinning with his head practically sweeping the ground.
                                She then had to correct that so the horse would spin with higher head, making it easier for him.
                                Very interesting.

                                I used that to teach our pasture horses to come to us and, standing with averted heads, wait for their name as an invitation to look at us and get a treat.
                                Worked very well, no more horses begging for a treat by being pushy, but now politely waiting.

                                Once you start any animal interacting with you with those techniques, the sky is the limit on what all you can achieve.
                                Just remember to mix static and active behaviors, so your partner doesn't start getting anxious and offering more and faster behaviors, but learns to stop and think thru, not rapid-fire act looking for a right guess.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by WildLittleWren View Post
                                  Could anyone recommend a good book for clicker training? I have never used it, but have heard of quite a few success stories..I am always trying to learn new ways of doing things, and it sounds like this might be something to add as another training tool for my back pocket!
                                  Alexandra Kurland or Karen Pryor. There are very good podcasts. Equiosity, Drinking from the Toilet and Equine Clicker 101. I follow the dog clicker folks also because a lot of foundational info is universal. People use this stuff to train hippos, big cats, and giraffes in zoos. You can find some cold videos on YouTube.

                                  As far as people having problems with the clicker reinforcing riding, you need to stack behaviors is in a systematic way. That’s why I recommend the podcasts and really increasing your education about all the nuances. The whole technique in theory Has A LOT of details. And they are continuing to develop those and develop their explanations of how it should be done.

                                  I am am having a good time with it. Though.... the political, virtually RARA R+ purists are a bit trying. 🙄 According to the researchers punishment really isn’t something that comes up as useful in animal training. Humans, far too often, Do NOT utilize a clear cause ➡️ Effect method. (They don’t apply consequences they rage.)

                                  "Friend" me !

                                  http://www.facebook.com/isabeau.solace

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by chris10astra View Post

                                    I have used it to help with mounting and it's been over two weeks of near-perfect mounting so it's safe to say it worked. I was nervous to feed from the saddle so I put it off for months. He goes to the mounting block and turns his head to the right to wait for his treat (ha, guess I should click when his head is neutral instead of to the side!). Loose reins and all. When I first got him six months ago it was normal to have to take 30-60 minutes of patience while he jigged and wiggled and evaded. Lots of tears. Yay R+.

                                    I understand the tribes around R+. There are those who think it's ALL you should do and on the opposite side so many people think it's just plain wrong to "bribe" horses and treats make them spoiled and nippy. So it can be hard to find groups to dig into it to just learn and experiment. I end up just doing what works for me and I left a lot of click/R+ groups because they were so purist and it was hard to handle that as a lurking beginner.
                                    The R+ Tribes are Bonkers! I mean seriously borderline Fascist. They will have a melt down at the slightest R- insinuation and go even farther presuming that eventually you want your horse to be bitless barefoot blah blah blah blah blah.
                                    "Friend" me !

                                    http://www.facebook.com/isabeau.solace

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Isabeau Z Solace View Post

                                      The R+ Tribes are Bonkers! I mean seriously borderline Fascist. They will have a melt down at the slightest R- insinuation and go even farther presuming that eventually you want your horse to be bitless barefoot blah blah blah blah blah.
                                      OK, good to hear you've had a similar experience. The group I joined made me feel like I was abusing my horse because in some of the tricks I was doing, I lightly touch him with one finger. They were saying it was stressful for him. ?!?!

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by twinmommy View Post

                                        OK, good to hear you've had a similar experience. The group I joined made me feel like I was abusing my horse because in some of the tricks I was doing, I lightly touch him with one finger. They were saying it was stressful for him. ?!?!
                                        Ignore them.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X