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Passier PS Baum

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  • Passier PS Baum

    I'm looking at very old Passier PS baum (brown coloer) in one of our local tack stores on consignment. This saddle has been in the tack store for over three years and is way overpriced. I am trying to get the sellor to negotiate on the price before I trial it because I would never buy anything close to what they are asking.

    The leather on this saddle is super soft and the saddle, even though old (prob 16-18 years?), is in very good condition. My question, and please nobody laugh, this saddle appears to be more of close contact saddle with straighter flaps, than a dressage saddle. Seat is somewhat shallow, minor pencil knee roll, no thigh blocks.

    So is the saddle a close contact with dressage emphasis similar to a Stubben Siegfried VSD? Or what is it?

  • #2
    I'd have to see a picture. The PS Baum tree was used on AP, jumping *and* dressage saddles. If it's a REALLY old one it may well be more of a close contact saddle. People were ordering them without knee rolls when the Crosby Prix was in style.

    I loff Passier - my saddle of choice, ALWAYS. Unfortunately however my 4 y/o is more of a Kieffer boy, so I'm on the hunt for a Kieffer jumping saddle that isn't all clunky... and black.
    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief


    • Original Poster

      Below is a link of Passier with the same style. The Passier I'm looking at is in much better condition.



      • #4
        Technically that's an AP/D - All Purpose with Dressage tendencies. They can be surprisingly comfortable for a lot of different things at the lower levels. My 4 y/o is presently wearing Kieffer's equivalent of that, which we jumped him in at a hunter schooling show last week and will do a combined test with at a dressage schooling show next week! If you're at the point in your horsey career where you need to specialize, you'd probably want to give it a miss, but for a schooling saddle at home, these things fit a wide variety of horses and if well cared for they last for freakin' centuries. My present Passier is a 1965 vintage and you'd be hard pressed to tell. Definitely want to try it on your horse and self - and don't go higher than about $400 - they're very much out of fashion right now so despite the superb quality that's about all they'll fetch on the open market. If you're willing to wait and search around you can sometimes find them for a lot less.
        "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief


        • #5
          I have that saddle, it is an all purpose type saddle, nice for trail riding, a little bit of jumping, and I have shown low level dressage and breed show hunter pleasure in it. I think I paid $300 for mine a few years ago.


          • #6
            The PS Baum tree is a flexible wood tree. The saddle looks to be the classic dressage saddle. This is a pre-bucket saddle where you were a rider vs. the new stuff with huge knee rolls and cantles that could have held an armored knight in the saddle.

            Don't pay too much, you should be able to get a nice Passier (think Ebay or other internet tack sites) for nit much money. It's flat and "the wrong color". Great saddles though.
            "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"


            • #7
              I have a Baum AP with knee rolls. I love that saddle. I used it for competitive trail and it was amazingly comfortable despite the rather hard seat.


              • Original Poster

                The tack store wants $1,300 plus fittings. The used saddle prices in my area are ridiculous!


                • #9
                  Originally posted by lightlee View Post
                  The tack store wants $1,300 plus fittings. The used saddle prices in my area are ridiculous!
                  Absolutely do NOT pay that much - do NOT. $400 is the absolute max, and even then you'd be lucky to get that much back on resale.

                  Shop around, you can find one for a fraction of that.
                  "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief


                  • #10
                    If you can copy down the s/n and email passier, they will tell you what the model, size, tree and mfg date are.

                    It's VERY hard to say what you are looking at.

                    I have two Ancient Passiers, both are model PT (also referred to as "Traditional") and have plain moulded flaps. Both are VSD--which is a general purpose model with "Dressage Tendency". *I* need the more forward flap for my fat, long thighs or they go over the front.

                    As referred above "PS Baum" refers to the type of tree.

                    If the saddle is a model "Century" then it is a jumping seat and stirrup bar, and those are also available in different flaps, but the balance is going to be VERY different than a PT in the same flap. There is a Century 'dressage' which is actually like the Working Hunter saddles in the UK. VERY different balance. (the link shown *looks* like a Century rather than a PT)

                    OTOH, the PT can be had with VSS flaps--and you can still lengthen your stirrups and have lovely dressage balance.

                    So really, you need to know more. Passier is *excellent* about replying to emails, usually only takes a day or two (time changes and all.)

                    As far as value? It's worth what someone will pay. I got both of mine for $500. They are 26 & 23 years old, in very good condition. It took me 3 years to find the first, and only 18 mos to find the second. I cannot for the LIFE of me find another (been looking for 2+ years now) in the *same* price range with the same tree & seat size. I come *close*. (I do have a fabulous friend who forwards them to me when she finds them, I'm just broke ATM. )

                    If I had the money, I'd pay up to $1500 for a PT in the right tree/seat for my needs. (I *don't* have the money, but it would be well worth it, IMO, if I did.)

                    You cannot get the PT anymore except as custom. So if it is in good condition and the right size, it IS worth that kind of money unless you want to spend years looking.

                    There is a brand new one in FL that I click on and drool over periodically. Around $2k and worth every penny since it is NEW and yet they are not manufactured any more. Someday when I win the lottery...

                    The great thing about the PS Baum tree is it is VERY adjustible. SO if the tree shape is right (which those darn things tend to fit a VERY wide variety of critters!) you can always get it adjusted for the current horse. Again--that adds to the value, IMO.

                    After all that, the short answer is, you can find them from $200 through $2k, and yes, they are worth it.
                    InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs

                    Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)


                    • #11
                      WA--Posting at the same time. I disagree, obviously.

                      It DEPENDS on what model it is and what condition.

                      Yes, you can *find* them for cheap... but... finding the right combo of size, model & condition... that's something else entirely.
                      InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs

                      Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)


                      • #12
                        I tried that one and loved it for myself, but it wasn't a good fit for my horse, sadly. But I loved, loved, loved it--very comfortable, and I liked the lack of padding.
                        "Remain relentlessly cheerful."

                        Graphite/Pastel Portraits


                        • #13
                          Just to reiterate what Pinto said. Send the saddle number to Passier by e-mail. You will have an answer very shortly as to its age, and model number.
                          However, an old Passier in good condition may be better than a newer one in neglected condition. But they are tough, tough saddles. Mine swam in the
                          Fraser River on the hunts innumerable times and dried out each week for the next week's abuse. Beautifully made on the inside, all put together by hand.

                          My own view is that they are a bit on the outs these days and can be picked up for about $700.00 here in decent condition - the show people just don't use them.

                          I was told that it is also hard to sell the Grand Gilbert - but in our view it is a wonderful saddle and puts my h/j daughter automatically in a dressage position without locking her in.
                          They fit such a variety of types with the cutback head.
                          Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique


                          • #14
                            Way Way Way too much money....$400-600 max.
                            "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"


                            • #15
                              I sold a very similiar saddle, 1978 model in very good condition, but needed reflocking, on EBAY a few years ago for $325. I thought that was a little low, but it gives you an idea. BTW, Mine went to Oregon - somebody got a great deal IMO.



                              • #16
                                I had my old Stubben Lorelei restuffed by Stubben in VA for $125 this Spring...it's not that expensive and you've got a new saddle on your horse's back.

                                The older model Passiers don't bring big bucks, especially brown flat dressage saddles. I love these, but riders today seem to like "bucket" saddles for dressage.
                                "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"


                                • Original Poster

                                  They reduced the price but still is over thousand.


                                  • #18
                                    Some people just have no idea of value. If it is still there is a month or so, make the offer you are comfortable with and it may jog the owner into coming down - if not pass on the saddle.... but when a store sells a saddle they expect a commission and at one store here it is 25%, leaving not very much for the consignor. However, that's business.

                                    Have you tried the saddle for yourself and your horse?
                                    Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Trakehner View Post
                                      I had my old Stubben Lorelei restuffed by Stubben in VA for $125 this Spring...it's not that expensive and you've got a new saddle on your horse's back.

                                      The older model Passiers don't bring big bucks, especially brown flat dressage saddles. I love these, but riders today seem to like "bucket" saddles for dressage.
                                      I should do this with my old Parzival - it will never be sold by me. The Passier really didn't fit me or my horses so I sold and the new owner could get it reflocked and customized for thier horse.



                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Christa P View Post
                                        I should do this with my old Parzival - it will never be sold by me. Christa
                                        Make sure when you get it restuffed they use the white/cream wool and not the grey stuff. The white is better quality. Once you get it restuffed, ride it for a month with no saddle pad. Let the horse's back and sweat help mold the saddle so it's a good fit. This is what Passier recommends for their new saddles, Stubben too! I've got to get my old 1960's Pariani restuffed too come to think of it.
                                        "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"