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Riding Student falls- procedure and etiquette

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  • Original Poster

    Originally posted by x View Post
    It is possible to do only w/t/c--flat classes--in the IEA--but still you are supposed to be at a higher level than what you are showing at. The beginner novice classes are only w/t/c, but again, you are supposed to have had a minimum of a year continuous riding/instruction before being a part of it, and be competent to ride all three gaits on a strange horse with no warm-up or practice; for the flat classes you are put on a strange horse and are in the ring in front of the judge--no warm-up or practice on the horse, and you can be mounted on pretty much any size horse as well--she needs to be able to deal with various sized gaits at the w/t/c, because each horse is going to move a bit different from other horses--she needs to be able to adjust to various horses quickly.
    Okay thanks for explaining.

    She may be a little lower than she should be for IEA. First year for us....so it's all new to me. I didn't know she should know a higher level than she competes at.
    I would say she has averaged 2 lessons a month for the last year.....and really likely 2 lessons a month over the last 2 years. summers not as consistent. But horse day camp both.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by darcilyna View Post

      Thanks for sharing your experience. First two falls were at a walk or trot speed I think. 3rd one was from a canter.

      I cannot believe I let her get in the 3rd time.
      Don’t blame yourself! Here’s what not getting involved really looks like: My parents, who loved me very much, were watching from the stands as I jumped a course at a show. The horse gave a true dirty stop at an fence and I flew off and ended up draped over the oxer’s poles!

      This was the 80s and helmets were velvet “items of apparel” and the parenting style was much looser involvement in their kids’ dangerous activities , especially on Marine bases where I grew up.

      I remember looking at my parents as I extricated myself from the fence and they were conducting an animated conversation with another spectator. 😄

      My trainer, an ex- cavalry guy, caught the horse, threw my into the saddle and told me to “do it right this time”. And I did. Is it right that I loved that guy? Lol!
      "Dogs give and give and give. Cats are the gift that keeps on grifting." —Bradley Trevor Greive

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        Originally posted by chestnutmarebeware View Post

        Don’t blame yourself! Here’s what not getting involved really looks like: My parents, who loved me very much, were watching from the stands as I jumped a course at a show. The horse gave a true dirty stop at an fence and I flew off and ended up draped over the oxer’s poles!

        This was the 80s and helmets were velvet “items of apparel” and the parenting style was much looser involvement in their kids’ dangerous activities , especially on Marine bases where I grew up.

        I remember looking at my parents as I extricated myself from the fence and they were conducting an animated conversation with another spectator. 😄

        My trainer, an ex- cavalry guy, caught the horse, threw my into the saddle and told me to “do it right this time”. And I did. Is it right that I loved that guy? Lol!
        Omg! Wow what an experience

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          Originally posted by x View Post
          Incidentally, the 4th and 5th grade riders are a trial for the IEA this year--in the past, you had to be in 6th grade or above to show IEA; they are trying out letting 4th and 5th graders in this year.
          Yes I saw that. Mine is 11 and 6th grade. Her IEA team lesson is combined ages but the lowest experienced. Age range from 4th grade to 7th grade. 6-8 kids.

          Comment


          • Different times for sure—they also let me hack my pony along the roads for five miles to ride at a training event when I was in seventh grade. But to be fair, they drove there to make sure I arrived!

            But I was glad they never pitched a fit when I hobbled to the car after I came off in a lesson.
            "Dogs give and give and give. Cats are the gift that keeps on grifting." —Bradley Trevor Greive

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              Originally posted by chestnutmarebeware View Post
              Different times for sure—they also let me hack my pony along the roads for five miles to ride at a training event when I was in seventh grade. But to be fair, they drove there to make sure I arrived!

              But I was glad they never pitched a fit when I hobbled to the car after I came off in a lesson.
              😊

              Comment


              • Originally posted by darcilyna View Post
                I would say she has averaged 2 lessons a month for the last year.....and really likely 2 lessons a month over the last 2 years. summers not as consistent. But horse day camp both.
                Am I correct on this? So she's only been riding for 2 years, and only averaging 2 lessons a month during those 2 years??? So she has roughly been on a horse less than 50 hours (being generous and assuming lessons are an hour each).

                If that's the case your daughter is a rank beginner. There is nothing wrong with that - we all start somewhere! But she is a very, very inexperienced rider. What's the saying? It takes 10,000 hours to be proficient at something? While that might be excessive, it highlights that approximately 50 hours in the saddle is NOTHING.

                Her experience level, combined with the fact that she fell off at a walk (even if the pony was being naughty) lead me to believe that there is NO WAY this child should be doing IEA. That has disaster written all over it. IEA (and IHSA, etc.) require your child to get on a strange horse and make it perform. She should be riding WAY above the level she is planning on showing a strange horse. It's one thing to be showing at the level you're riding when you're on a partner you know well. To do it on a strange horse requires a lot more skill.

                I would rethink this. A lot.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  Originally posted by staceymc View Post

                  Am I correct on this? So she's only been riding for 2 years, and only averaging 2 lessons a month during those 2 years??? So she has roughly been on a horse less than 50 hours (being generous and assuming lessons are an hour each).

                  If that's the case your daughter is a rank beginner. There is nothing wrong with that - we all start somewhere! But she is a very, very inexperienced rider. What's the saying? It takes 10,000 hours to be proficient at something? While that might be excessive, it highlights that approximately 50 hours in the saddle is NOTHING.

                  Her experience level, combined with the fact that she fell off at a walk (even if the pony was being naughty) lead me to believe that there is NO WAY this child should be doing IEA. That has disaster written all over it. IEA (and IHSA, etc.) require your child to get on a strange horse and make it perform. She should be riding WAY above the level she is planning on showing a strange horse. It's one thing to be showing at the level you're riding when you're on a partner you know well. To do it on a strange horse requires a lot more skill.

                  I would rethink this. A lot.
                  On this message board is the first I'm hearing maybe she is not ready for IEA. Her trainers are the ones who asked ME if she was interested. Not that is adds that many hours in the scheme of things but 2 horse day camps thrown in there where they spent a lot of that time on the horse.

                  At her barn they ride a different horse each lesson. Rarely 2 times in a row.

                  At the sit down with Barn owner and head trainer I asked if she was unmatched with this horse level wise and they said no it was a fine match ....this horse had never shown this behavior before.

                  I wish I had photos. It wasn't like a gentle bend down he was really trying to get her off of him.

                  And as far as being ready for IEA she is out for 4-5 weeks which is 8-10 missed lessons so it seems it's not gonna happen this year anyways

                  I need to look up where it talks about qualifications for IEA...does anyone have a link to share?

                  I am starting to think she is the least qualified of all the kids on the team ...including the 4th graders. Ugh

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    FYI I think I found the qualifications and will definitely be asking her trainer/IEA team manager about them for my girl. It is quite possible they are rushing her training a bit. Also a part of me thinks maybe puberty and tweenagerness is causing her to be more awkward in the pony than she has been prior to this??? Combined with only her 2nd-3rd lesson with this trainer....? I don't know! I keep defaulting to them but need to NOT DO THAT ANYMORE

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      Originally posted by darcilyna View Post

                      Okay thanks for explaining.

                      She may be a little lower than she should be for IEA. First year for us....so it's all new to me. I didn't know she should know a higher level than she competes at.
                      I would say she has averaged 2 lessons a month for the last year.....and really likely 2 lessons a month over the last 2 years. summers not as consistent. But horse day camp both.
                      Just a quick note she has definitely ridden all sizes of horses. From ponies to some of the largest at their barn. One the co owner owns and as a pretty large grown man looks quite fitted to. She handled that horse nicely and looked fine up there (imho)

                      I don't know exactly what's going on ....but the trainers act like she is up to par with what she is doing ... ?

                      It's all confusing to me I am trying to learn and work out what is best for her and our family

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by darcilyna View Post
                        ...poles and cross ties ...
                        Just a note: it is "cross rails". Cross ties are what you use in the barn to secure the horse for grooming and tacking up. Cross rails are "X" jumps. The rails cross in an 'x'.

                        Offered simply because you indicated a desire to become more fluent.

                        No matter where you go, there you are

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          Originally posted by Beck View Post

                          Just a note: it is "cross rails". Cross ties are what you use in the barn to secure the horse for grooming and tacking up. Cross rails are "X" jumps. The rails cross in an 'x'.

                          Offered simply because you indicated a desire to become more fluent.
                          😊 Thanks! My daughter is always correcting me!

                          Comment


                          • I will agree with your trainer on one thing: it's not the pony's fault.

                            It's the TRAINER'S fault.

                            Now that we have the full story (at a walk/trot, and fell off over his head), the entire thing is the trainer's fault. Not your daughter's. Not the pony's (who could either have just been acting up that day as we all know ponies do, or may be tired/sore/etc., which again, is something the trainer should have caught).

                            Your daughter needs better instruction, on a regular basis, with someone who specializes in starting green riders correctly. Was she ever started off on the lunge line, without stirrups. to help her develop her seat and balance? Does she know how to adjust her stirrups properly? Does the trainer encourage them to ask questions in lessons?

                            She might be one of those naturally good riders we all envy , but she's still inexperienced. A better instructor will be able to take that raw talent and turn it into something great.

                            Comment


                            • As I said earlier some kids look nice on a horse right from the start but that doesn't mean they have real strength or balance when things go wrong or any problem solving skills.

                              When I was a teenager my observation was that it took me and my friends about 30 days riding at least 2 hours a day all gaits before we could let go of mane or saddle horn and be balanced.

                              Now I would call that having an independent seat and it takes time but is key to everything.

                              I expect it would be hard to get there in 2 rides a month over 2 years. She needs more time in the saddle and coaches who understand developing seat.

                              Comment


                              • I as a trainer would probably not consider her ready for IEA with only 2 rides a month over two years. I as a trainer would consider her still a rank beginner. The camp experience I am guessing was for a week at a time? So how many weeks total? If we are talking a week or two each year that would not be enough to improve her that much with her limited time on horseback. It is possible to progress riding only twice a month, but it is very hard. I usually tell my students they need weekly lessons, and if they really want to progress, twice weekly lessons are much better (and of course, more than that is even better). But once a week is really the least that steady progress can easily be made. It takes hours of practice. Like any skill.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  To all those saying no way could she be READY FOR IEA with such little experience? What would you do about that? Assuming we stay with this barn? How would you broach that subject without saying "you're wrong. She is not ready"

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by darcilyna View Post
                                    To all those saying no way could she be READY FOR IEA with such little experience? What would you do about that? Assuming we stay with this barn? How would you broach that subject without saying "you're wrong. She is not ready"
                                    "Thank for you for thinking of her, but we are not interested in DD doing IEA at this time". You do not need to elaborate on the why if you don't wish to.

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      Originally posted by staceymc View Post

                                      "Thank for you for thinking of her, but we are not interested in DD doing IEA at this time". You do not need to elaborate on the why if you don't wish to.
                                      But I already paid the IEA membership and half the years total fee. ...?

                                      Comment


                                      • A while ago, someone recommended a book to a non-horsey parent. I don't recall the exact title but an Amazon search turned up this one, that seems kind of familiar. I'm not endorsing this, as I haven't read it, but it might be of interest.

                                        A Parent's Guide to Riding Lessons: Everything You Need to Know to Survive and Thrive with a Horse-Loving Kid by Elise Gaston Chand

                                        "Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything
                                        that's even remotely true."

                                        Homer Simpson

                                        Comment

                                        • Original Poster

                                          Originally posted by Alex and Bodie's Mom View Post
                                          I will agree with your trainer on one thing: it's not the pony's fault.

                                          It's the TRAINER'S fault.

                                          Now that we have the full story (at a walk/trot, and fell off over his head), the entire thing is the trainer's fault. Not your daughter's. Not the pony's (who could either have just been acting up that day as we all know ponies do, or may be tired/sore/etc., which again, is something the trainer should have caught).

                                          Your daughter needs better instruction, on a regular basis, with someone who specializes in starting green riders correctly. Was she ever started off on the lunge line, without stirrups. to help her develop her seat and balance? Does she know how to adjust her stirrups properly? Does the trainer encourage them to ask questions in lessons?

                                          She might be one of those naturally good riders we all envy , but she's still inexperienced. A better instructor will be able to take that raw talent and turn it into something great.
                                          Yes she was started on a lunge line at walk/trot for about a year of lessons. However not without stirrups on lunge line. She did walk trot with the up/down training for that year.

                                          She says she only did no stirrups THIS YEAR at camp. Same camp she started cantering. She had done poles prior to camp just a time or two. Since camp is when it seems her training has picked up but she has also had more average one lesson per week too.

                                          I'm trying to talk thru with her her progression of training to compare with how y'all say it should be

                                          Comment

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