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Riding Student falls- procedure and etiquette

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  • I am not saying that the barn is bad. I am saying that I want to know the name of the barn because I am researching barns for my sister who is 7 that is starting riding. That is all.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by KingRocker4Life View Post
      I am not saying that the barn is bad. I am saying that I want to know the name of the barn because I am researching barns for my sister who is 7 that is starting riding. That is all.
      Oh come on! Really? Do you even know the OP is in your same region? Probably 5 states over.

      You are the 14 year old beginner rider who is just learning to trot cross poles yourself. Why don't you send your little sister to the same beginner program you are enrolled in?

      If this barn was in your town, you'd recognize it from the videos and description, heck, you'd probably have checked it out for lessons already.

      If this barn is in another town or state, a low level lesson barn that keeps its kids happy and tries hard but maybe takes some short cuts to keep the kids interested or pushes them a bit fast, well that describes so many places. But I don't see anything so egregious here that the OP should be naming the barn.

      Plus, think about it. If the OP named the barn, then anyone who Googles the name of the barn will find this thread. Basically someone connected with the barn will stumble upon the thread in about 3 days, recognize the people involved, everyone at the barn will explode in fury (rightly so IMHO) and then the OP can never go near the place again. None of us want that to happen, especially as we don't know if there are any better barns locally at her level and price range. Big beginner lesson barns can be scarce in some towns. You yourself for instance have had a hard time finding lessons, I believe?

      This thread has had *a lot* of good general information about things to look for in a big lesson barn, and some interesting information about the various training progressions at reputable barns. There's enough here that any thoughtful person can take away a few tips to evaluate a new lesson program they are checking out.

      My two cents is that I have *no idea* how anyone manages to learn to ride in once weekly lessons, despite seeing it all around me. I learned to ride as a kid without lessons, just "bombing around" on my horse, and then I got some books on training and equitation, and taught myself from that. When I returned to riding in my 40s, I did once a week then twice a week lessons for a couple of years, because my form had all been lost, but I still had the basic balance for a spook that I learned as a kid. I don't know if I could ever have developed a seat just in lessons. So all of this is a bit of a mystery to me!

      Comment


      • Lol, ok, this thread caused me to come out of lurker-dom to build on what some other posters have suggested. Yes, y'all know what's coming ....

        OP, you might want to add a vaulting class to your DD's schedule. It tends to be less expensive than 'traditional' riding lessons and will accomplish two things almost immediately: A) core strength and B) seat and body control.

        If you are not familiar with vaulting, it is 100% on the lunge line with handles strapped on to the horse instead of a saddle. It is statistically the safest of the horse sports and can be less expensive than 'traditional' lessons. And, it's a total blast - very social and an adrenaline sport while even still at the walk so very rewarding for beginners. And, it really builds strength while being so fun that it doesn't seem like a huge full body workout.

        If you are thinking of adding pilates or some other workout - for a kid (and adults!) vaulting can be a great alternative and includes nuzzles, nickers and horse time!

        PM me for more info if you're interested.

        Click image for larger version

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        Last edited by M'al; Sep. 10, 2019, 03:00 PM. Reason: Edited to add photo from AVA website - one of the kids my DD coaches!

        Comment


        • that's a great idea, if the kid has the basic ability to do tumbling and gymnastics. I never did

          Comment


          • Originally posted by x View Post
            The biggest thing I am noticing right away is that her foot is way too far in the stirrup to be safe--it is common for kids to loose the placement of their foot in the stirrup when they are first learning, but we immediately bring them back to a walk and correct it. Cantering and jumping with that foot placement not only does not allow her to properly have her heel down, it is unsafe if she were to fall off as her foot could get caught in the stirrup(although with the safety stirrups it isn't as big of a concern). But maybe it is just that moment in the video and she isn't that way that often. But if it is, I would say she is in no way ready for IEA.
            THIS THIS THIS> Get that foot fixed fast. When I taught a lot of beginners we spent a ton of time just 'fiddling' around at a trot, riding patterns, playing Simon Says, red light/green light, because they have to learn to habituate getting and keeping their stirrups where they belong. She should not have been allowed AKA encouraged to ride with the stirrups 'run home' (meaning all the way at her heel) for all of the reasons noted above. It is unsafe, it messes with her balance, she can't ever get and keep a 'long leg' (AKA a secure leg) with the angles and physics in play. It is entirely not acceptable in any program that she ever progressed to a canter with her feet in the stirrups like that. Seeing the instructor in the indoor video being entirely blase about it, followed by the outdoor video where her foot is never right (she's not visibly fixing it that I can see, ever), that's the bare bones basics of 'you have to get the foundation right to build a proper seat.'

            ETA: The schooling show video from July looks better, but I can't be on board with her riding the grey horse with a gimmick on his head. It's just not ok.

            Comment


            • I'm not disagreeing with M'al's suggestion. I think every young rider would probably benefit from spending some time in a vaulting program. However, the reality is that vaulting programs are extremely rare. Only a tiny percentage of riders in the US are within even remotely feasible traveling distance from a place that offers vaulting classes.



              Originally posted by Scribbler View Post
              My two cents is that I have *no idea* how anyone manages to learn to ride in once weekly lessons, despite seeing it all around me. I learned to ride as a kid without lessons, just "bombing around" on my horse, and then I got some books on training and equitation, and taught myself from that. When I returned to riding in my 40s, I did once a week then twice a week lessons for a couple of years, because my form had all been lost, but I still had the basic balance for a spook that I learned as a kid. I don't know if I could ever have developed a seat just in lessons. So all of this is a bit of a mystery to me!
              I really try to refrain from expressing sentiments like these. I make enough unpopular statements here already as it is.

              However, yeah. It's a thing. So many of us older folks grew up running wild across the countryside on our horses and ponies. I had weekly riding lessons, but had ponies and horses at home and logged many hours on horseback doing things my parents probably wouldn't have approved of if they had known. We operated firmly under the principle that it's easier to beg forgiveness (if you happen to get caught) than get permission.

              But those kinds of opportunities just aren't available to most kids today for lots of different reasons. I think it's a lot more difficult for most young riders today to log the kind of saddle time that I and my friends accumulated so casually. And because of that, it's more difficult for them to develop the kind of balance and sticky seat that comes with lots of saddle/bareback time. I'm not sure I could ever have done it if my only riding opportunities were in structured once or twice a week lessons.

              "Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything
              that's even remotely true."

              Homer Simpson

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Scribbler View Post

                Oh come on! Really? Do you even know the OP is in your same region? Probably 5 states over.

                You are the 14 year old beginner rider who is just learning to trot cross poles yourself. Why don't you send your little sister to the same beginner program you are enrolled in?

                If this barn was in your town, you'd recognize it from the videos and description, heck, you'd probably have checked it out for lessons already.

                If this barn is in another town or state, a low level lesson barn that keeps its kids happy and tries hard but maybe takes some short cuts to keep the kids interested or pushes them a bit fast, well that describes so many places. But I don't see anything so egregious here that the OP should be naming the barn.

                Plus, think about it. If the OP named the barn, then anyone who Googles the name of the barn will find this thread. Basically someone connected with the barn will stumble upon the thread in about 3 days, recognize the people involved, everyone at the barn will explode in fury (rightly so IMHO) and then the OP can never go near the place again. None of us want that to happen, especially as we don't know if there are any better barns locally at her level and price range. Big beginner lesson barns can be scarce in some towns. You yourself for instance have had a hard time finding lessons, I believe?

                This thread has had *a lot* of good general information about things to look for in a big lesson barn, and some interesting information about the various training progressions at reputable barns. There's enough here that any thoughtful person can take away a few tips to evaluate a new lesson program they are checking out.

                My two cents is that I have *no idea* how anyone manages to learn to ride in once weekly lessons, despite seeing it all around me. I learned to ride as a kid without lessons, just "bombing around" on my horse, and then I got some books on training and equitation, and taught myself from that. When I returned to riding in my 40s, I did once a week then twice a week lessons for a couple of years, because my form had all been lost, but I still had the basic balance for a spook that I learned as a kid. I don't know if I could ever have developed a seat just in lessons. So all of this is a bit of a mystery to me!
                Oh, KingRocker. Not cool to send me a furious personal message saying I am being a big meanie to you and the mods should get involved because I am being so mean. Not cool at all.

                And in your pm you say you've already pm'd the OP and know the barn is not in your town. So why on earth do you want to know?

                My preference is for discussions and responses to happen within the threads. If you have something to respond to, say it in the thread.

                Saying you are a 14 year old rider just learning to trot cross poles is not an insult. It is just information from your own recent started threads. Saying your sister could go to the same beginner program you are in is just common sense. Not sure where this makes me a big meanie.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Scribbler View Post

                  Oh, KingRocker. Not cool to send me a furious personal message saying I am being a big meanie to you and the mods should get involved because I am being so mean. Not cool at all.

                  And in your pm you say you've already pm'd the OP and know the barn is not in your town. So why on earth do you want to know?

                  My preference is for discussions and responses to happen within the threads. If you have something to respond to, say it in the thread.

                  Saying you are a 14 year old rider just learning to trot cross poles is not an insult. It is just information from your own recent started threads. Saying your sister could go to the same beginner program you are in is just common sense. Not sure where this makes me a big meanie.
                  If she's 14, then is it really necessary to drag her PM activity out into the fray like this? She's a kid. Chillaxe.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by TMares View Post

                    If she's 14, then is it really necessary to drag her PM activity out into the fray like this? She's a kid. Chillaxe.
                    Scribbler did not quote her PM's or anything.

                    If someone is going to post here it is probably best that they learn that attacking someone via PM is not really popular.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by trubandloki View Post

                      Scribbler did not quote her PM's or anything.

                      If someone is going to post here it is probably best that they learn that attacking someone via PM is not really popular.
                      I agree. It seems to me that the adult thing to do to handle it privately. I see your point, I am suggesting that such an education could be provided without dragging it out in the open.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by trubandloki View Post

                        Scribbler did not quote her PM's or anything.

                        If someone is going to post here it is probably best that they learn that attacking someone via PM is not really popular.
                        I did not quote the PM. My aim here was indeed to point out that in general we have our discussions on the public threads. I realize that the poster is young, new to COTH, and probably new to being on discussion boards with adults as well. I have no intention of getting into an exchange of PMs with a child on any topic.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by TMares View Post

                          I agree. It seems to me that the adult thing to do to handle it privately. I see your point, I am suggesting that such an education could be provided without dragging it out in the open.
                          Or is the adult thing to not deal with a minor in private..... so there is no confusion about what was said.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by trubandloki View Post

                            Or is the adult thing to not deal with a minor in private..... so there is no confusion about what was said.
                            Precisely. I am not going to get into a back and forth with an angry child by PM.

                            If folks have a better way to deal with it, happy to hear it.

                            I do tend to keep my PM activity to a minimum. I don't think I've ever sent one yet, I've responded to some that were just asking for more details on some advice I'd given in a thread, though even in those cases I thought the advice would be better off in a public forum.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              Originally posted by M'al View Post
                              Lol, ok, this thread caused me to come out of lurker-dom to build on what some other posters have suggested. Yes, y'all know what's coming ....

                              OP, you might want to add a vaulting class to your DD's schedule. It tends to be less expensive than 'traditional' riding lessons and will accomplish two things almost immediately: A) core strength and B) seat and body control.

                              If you are not familiar with vaulting, it is 100% on the lunge line with handles strapped on to the horse instead of a saddle. It is statistically the safest of the horse sports and can be less expensive than 'traditional' lessons. And, it's a total blast - very social and an adrenaline sport while even still at the walk so very rewarding for beginners. And, it really builds strength while being so fun that it doesn't seem like a huge full body workout.

                              If you are thinking of adding pilates or some other workout - for a kid (and adults!) vaulting can be a great alternative and includes nuzzles, nickers and horse time!

                              PM me for more info if you're interested.

                              Click image for larger version

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                              This actually sounds amazing. She might be interested and her 2nd choice sport is probably gymnastics. I would be curious if there is anywhere within 30-40 minutes form me that teaches this...

                              Comment


                              • Hey OP,

                                You have been swamped with great ideas, constructive comments, and apparently a bit of internal conflict between posters. This BB is packed with folks that have amazing backgrounds and experiences.

                                I just wanted to chime in and say that it's been refreshing to read your responses - you seem really interested in doing what is in the best interest of your young rider and you have not gotten snarky, defensive, or left the sand box when some of the comments were brutally honest. Well done!

                                Comment


                                • I will add in from a lot of observation over many years, that it is kids like your daughter who are willing to work for lessons, that continue on with horses once they get to the age of 15 yoish and the pull of boys take a lot of girls who are just given everything away from horses.

                                  OP you can start with getting her a bike. Me when she is a bit older, an older kid can go a long way on a bike and it helps with the fitness for riding. It also means that she can get to the barn without you, so not taking away from your time.

                                  Oh and I think all girls should do a self defence course.
                                  It is better to ride 5 minutes a day than it is to ride 35 minutes on a Sunday.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by darcilyna View Post

                                    This actually sounds amazing. She might be interested and her 2nd choice sport is probably gymnastics. I would be curious if there is anywhere within 30-40 minutes form me that teaches this...
                                    The American Vaulting Association https://www.americanvaulting.org/ has a search tool. Click on "Find a Club" on the left menu bar.

                                    Also, on the right side of the main page, click on "Interested in vaulting?" Fill out the form.
                                    "Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything
                                    that's even remotely true."

                                    Homer Simpson

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      Originally posted by SuzieQNutter View Post
                                      I will add in from a lot of observation over many years, that it is kids like your daughter who are willing to work for lessons, that continue on with horses once they get to the age of 15 yoish and the pull of boys take a lot of girls who are just given everything away from horses.

                                      OP you can start with getting her a bike. Me when she is a bit older, an older kid can go a long way on a bike and it helps with the fitness for riding. It also means that she can get to the barn without you, so not taking away from your time.

                                      Oh and I think all girls should do a self defence course.
                                      While she needs an updated bike, she has a bike and has been able to ride a long time. She even makes obstacle courses and bikes over tree limbs and sticks, blocks of wood etc.... Our town is not such that she could safely bike to the barn (we live in a steep hill then she would have to cross a main thorough fare) and the other one I am looking at is 30 minutes away by car.

                                      But it's a good thought and definitely one activity that works on balance!

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        Originally posted by NoSuchPerson View Post

                                        The American Vaulting Association https://www.americanvaulting.org/ has a search tool. Click on "Find a Club" on the left menu bar.

                                        Also, on the right side of the main page, click on "Interested in vaulting?" Fill out the form.
                                        Nearest clubs are 1.5 hours and 3 hours away

                                        Comment

                                        • Original Poster

                                          I just feel like chiming back in that this daughter is so into horses that she has spent her own money buying brushes, hoof pick etc so she has her own supplies to bring to groom whomever she rides.

                                          Comment

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