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Horse owner required to take out liability insurance policy and name barn owner as additionally insured party?

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Guilherme View Post

    I agree you learn by asking. But you're not asking "why?" to learn. You're asking "why?" to argue about it. That's a different.

    Or, if you wish, you're not entitled to anything that your contact does not give you. Does your contract entitle you to "explanation" and "understanding"? If so, you get it. If not, you get it if the BO decides to give it to you. If they don't then that's it. You can accept that or give your notice.

    G,
    I am?? That's interesting you came up with that without asking. WTF is wrong with you.

    Normal people ask WHY the BO needs to be named on the policy. What do you seriously NOT understand about that?

    You came here to argue with me. Get the facts straight instead of causing issues.

    Unbelievable.
    "When a horse greets you with a nicker & regards you with a large & liquid eye, the question of where you want to be & what you want to do has been answered." CANTER New England

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    • #22
      New normal in my area. For reasons stated.

      And people REALLY have to learn they should not post when they've been drinking.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #23
        Thanks all for your perspective.
        Last edited by AlterHalter2019; Aug. 14, 2019, 11:12 AM.

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        • #24
          Sounds reasonable, OP.

          Of the 4 places I've had boarding experience in the past 10 years ago, 3 of which either asked for that liability coverage or strongly suggested it. They had neighboring farms where a horse got loose, damaged a car and/ or injured someone and the farm owner was pursued. I can't recall but I think the horse owner was also pursued. They were just trying to protect themselves in every circumstance and each had their own farm policy.

          Years ago a polo pony broke the tie line at ORHC. Horse galloped across the polo field, dragging the tie post between his hind legs, jumped the stone wall and landed on a car. Miraculously, horse escaped with only minor injury. And the car belonged to a groom returning from lunch. It was a beater, and the club didn't cover his damages..

          He was handy, had minimal insurance and just fixed it himself. So no lawyers involved but I'm sure it got people thinking..

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          • #25
            Originally posted by ryansgirl View Post

            I am?? That's interesting you came up with that without asking. WTF is wrong with you.

            Normal people ask WHY the BO needs to be named on the policy. What do you seriously NOT understand about that?

            You came here to argue with me. Get the facts straight instead of causing issues.

            Unbelievable.
            Indeed, you have made your situation unbelievable.

            G.
            Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raa, Uma Paixo

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            • #26
              Originally posted by S1969 View Post



              For those that say their homeowner's provides similar coverage - I would want that in writing. My homeowner's stated that they would cover many things - so long as it was at my house, NOT for things elsewhere.
              not suggesting a homeowner's policy would cover a horse's actions but most all homeowner's policy do cover personal property may it be on or off the property

              Not responsible for typographical errors.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by S1969 View Post
                For those that say their homeowner's provides similar coverage - I would want that in writing. My homeowner's stated that they would cover many things - so long as it was at my house, NOT for things elsewhere.
                Agreed. Umbrella insurance may need to be purchased to cover events that do not occur on the homeowners property.

                Originally posted by clanter View Post
                not suggesting a homeowner's policy would cover a horse's actions but most all homeowner's policy do cover personal property may it be on or off the property
                This is anecdotal, but an acquaintance had her saddle stolen when she was at a show and her homeowner's insurance wouldn't cover the claim because the theft didn't occur on her property. The insurance company said they would have covered the theft if the saddle was taken from her home or her car and there was a police report. Not saying all homeowner's policies are the same, but it is something to consider.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by ryansgirl View Post

                  Whatever makes you happy.

                  I would want to know WHY. Not that hard of a concept. You don't understand so you ask questions.

                  It's how things work.

                  So NO I would NOT agree to it until I fully understood WHY and the OP wants to understand it too.
                  It puts the horse owner's policy as first payor if an accident occurs that involves the horse owner's horse. The barn owner cannot control what the horse owner does with the horse, like take horsie for a walk down the driveway to eat the nice fresh grass and horsie spooks and gets loose from the horse owner and runs out into the road and causes an accident, the barn owner's insurance doesn't have to pay for horse owner's incompetence.
                  "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by clanter View Post

                    not suggesting a homeowner's policy would cover a horse's actions but most all homeowner's policy do cover personal property may it be on or off the property
                    This is correct. Most standard HO policies cover the policyholder's personal property anywhere in the world, subject to limits.
                    "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him."

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                    • #30
                      Maybe I'm the only one, but I don't really find this unusual. My renter's insurance, which includes liability, lists the ownership group as additional insured at their request and my agent told me this is not uncommon. If I hold an event at a park or other property, they usually want to be listed as additional insured on the event insurance. In both of those cases, the places have their own insurance. But I can understand that if a problem/injury/lawsuit arises due to my guest or someone at my event then my insurance is what should be invoked to protect both me and the property owner. A barn asking to be additional insured on liability insurance for a horse I owned wouldn't raise my eyebrows at all.

                      If the barn only wants to be notified in case of policy cancellation, they can be listed as additional interest rather than additional insured. This means they aren't covered by the policy, but will be sent information about changes or cancellation.
                      Flickr

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                      • #31
                        As Scribbler mentioned, here in Ontario it is standard for a boarding facility to require HO to have liability insurance. Membership in our provincial horse organisation (Ontario Equestrian Federation) is cheap at around $70/year and includes liability insurance. You can purchase extra for tack, trailer etc. It is not insurance for the horse, altho you can also purchase that through OEF's insurance company. BOs can also get very reasonable coverage.
                        Most events such as clinics, shows, hunter paces, hunting, riding in facilities like parks and conservation areas require OEF membership. I think it is a good idea, and personally think that anyone with horses should have liability insurance!

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Scribbler , MegBackInSaddle , demidq - yes we have OE membership with liability insurance (and others available), but we don't name our boarding barn as an additional insured. Have any of you had to do this, or tried to do this?

                          I have no issues with liability insurance being required (I run a schooling series, and we require proof of liability insurance). My question is about naming an additional insured. I wasn't even aware this was an option?
                          I've spent most of my life riding horses. The rest I've just wasted.

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                          • #33
                            Two previous and my current barn require it of all boarders. The properties were government owned and the stable owners were concessionaires. All trainers were also required to have a business license and carry professional liability insurance. It is about $200 per year and well worth it in my opinion. I have a $2,000,000 policy.

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                            • #34
                              Originally posted by SolarFlare View Post
                              Scribbler , MegBackInSaddle , demidq - yes we have OE membership with liability insurance (and others available), but we don't name our boarding barn as an additional insured. Have any of you had to do this, or tried to do this?

                              I have no issues with liability insurance being required (I run a schooling series, and we require proof of liability insurance). My question is about naming an additional insured. I wasn't even aware this was an option?
                              At our riding club/boarding barn we contract with a commercial stables whose main operation is elsewhere, to run a small public lesson program at our facility. That stables is required to carry it's own insurance and to name our club facility in the policy. However, the boarders who have the equine association membership/insurance do not name the club facility, just present proof of association membership.

                              As far as homeowner's or renter's insurance, my renter's insurance does not cover gear that is stored outside my rental condo. They have told me I can get an additional policy (a rider) if I get photos and replacement cost estimates of all my gear. Haven't yet done that.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                The liability insurance requirement does not seem weird to me, neither does the clause about the barn owner not being liable for the death of a boarded horse.
                                Have you not read any threads here on COTH? People do stupid things and then want someone else to be responsible. The barn owner does not want to lose their business because of the actions of a stupid person.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by trubandloki View Post
                                  . The barn owner does not want to lose their business because of the actions of a stupid person.
                                  nor do they normally wish to risk everything they own because they may have failed to disclose what a court might see as a known hazard such as a horse biting the finger off little johnny (who was not supposed to be at the barn alone nor feed the horses)

                                  The potential of something going wrong real quick appears to have a direct relationship of the less prepared the greater the chance.
                                  Not responsible for typographical errors.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by OneTwoMany View Post

                                    Agreed. Umbrella insurance may need to be purchased to cover events that do not occur on the homeowners property.


                                    This is anecdotal, but an acquaintance had her saddle stolen when she was at a show and her homeowner's insurance wouldn't cover the claim because the theft didn't occur on her property. The insurance company said they would have covered the theft if the saddle was taken from her home or her car and there was a police report. Not saying all homeowner's policies are the same, but it is something to consider.
                                    Even an umbrella policy may not cover the actions of your horse with regards to liability. My umbrella policy will only cover the actions of my horse if I have an additional equine liability policy. Make sure your insurer knows you own a horse before assuming that any damage caused by the horse is covered.

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                                    • #38
                                      I also think with boarded horses - your homeowner's would usually cover an incident at your home - i.e. your dog bites a kid or attacks another dog. I'm not getting why barn owners needs to be named as second insured - not unless they aren't carrying enough of their own liability insurance. The best thing really is to talk to whoever you have your horse insured thru, or talk to an equine insurance company, Hallmark, Broadstone, Markel to name a few and discuss with them. Get some answers from those who are in the business so you can speak intelligently about it to your barn owner. I would want to make sure:
                                      1) it doesn't put me at any increased liability risk
                                      2) it doesn't cost me more
                                      3) it doesn't absolve barn owner of any liability concerning the care, custody and control of your horse.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by gottagrey View Post
                                        I also think with boarded horses - your homeowner's would usually cover an incident at your home - i.e. your dog bites a kid or attacks another dog. I'm not getting why barn owners needs to be named as second insured - not unless they aren't carrying enough of their own liability insurance. The best thing really is to talk to whoever you have your horse insured thru, or talk to an equine insurance company, Hallmark, Broadstone, Markel to name a few and discuss with them. Get some answers from those who are in the business so you can speak intelligently about it to your barn owner. I would want to make sure:
                                        1) it doesn't put me at any increased liability risk
                                        2) it doesn't cost me more
                                        3) it doesn't absolve barn owner of any liability concerning the care, custody and control of your horse.
                                        The reason is lawyers often cast a "wide net" and then, as they figure out the facts, "thin the herd" and release those not having any arguable responsibility for the event. But if you get sued you need a lawyer and that's expensive. That is why this is not a bad idea as it takes care of defending the barn owner.

                                        G.
                                        Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raa, Uma Paixo

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by Guilherme View Post

                                          The reason is lawyers often cast a "wide net" and then, as they figure out the facts, "thin the herd" and release those not having any arguable responsibility for the event. But if you get sued you need a lawyer and that's expensive. That is why this is not a bad idea as it takes care of defending the barn owner.

                                          G.
                                          Right, but I would still want to have my questions (post 38) answered by my insurance provider. I guess for me, I would want to make sure my naming a barn owner as an additional insured doesn't negate them from having to get their own liability policy, and a claim against my policy where barn owner is determined to be the sole liable party, (i.e. horse got out due to improper fencing) doesn't affect my insurance premiums etc.

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