Since this group can find out almost anything...

[DandyMatiz]

You are correct.

Not to mention I am in awe of the poor mannered replies of the posters from page two on hurling insults and chanting 'geld, geld geld' like a blood seeking mob. I would like for them to explain how their life is so impacted if a horse they will never see or interact with is kept intact? Please do not try the tired backyard breeder argument the only mare I ever had bred I still have the foal and she is in her teens and will never go to market or slaughter.

arabhorse2, mp, Ghazzu, sketcher, HighFlyinBey++, grayarabpony, myrna, JSwan
Instead of hiding behind a made up names why don't you show your bravery step it up a notch and go tell your neighbors face to face that their loser children should be sterilized because those children have nothing of worth to contribute to the gene poole and get back to us with how receptive they were to your observations


Not once did I hear true advice helpful to keep a non breeding stallion focused on work such as vicks vapor rub on the nose, properly fitted stallion ring or similar because this was not 'advice' it was a power game to them to see if they could manipulate a stranger by their online arguments.

It took this colt his horse 11 months to hit the ground and he will have 11 months to prove himself stallion material or not. If he starts acting obnoxious the 11 month rule is void.

Well, one great reason to geld him, he's not one of Jullyen's best sons. Jullyen has several very nice WP foals. Once Sheila found the niche, he has had some really great foals. This colt is Nice. Nicer than a lot of arabian stallions right now, sadly. But he is not the best example of his breeding.

[HighFlyinBey++]

What, pray tell, do feral human children have to do with non-breeding material horses

You'll find me listed as Joelle Surman in the Arabian database. I post under my horse's "made up" name, but you'd figure that out if you know anything about Arab naming conventions. I'm the former/final president & registrar of the Morab Horse Association (merged with PMHA in 2009).

My personal experience with the gelding decision: I bought Bailey (CMA High Flyin Bey in the Arab database; the ++ is Morab-only) in 2001 when he was a still-intact long yearling. His breeder was marketing him as a potential stallion. He's DARN nice, holds a number of Morab regional and national titles and had a price tag to match. I gelded him the day after he came home because I wasn't ready to own/handle a stallion & his breeder was just fine with my decision. He turned out to have a very "spirited" attitude as a 2 y/o. He was a gem at home, but struck out, kicked at horses, snapped at me and had NO manners whatsoever the minute we hit the show grounds (he once dragged me into a group of bystanders while leaving the ring). Had he still been a stallion, I'm 100% sure a human would have been seriously hurt and it would have been all my responsibility. Fortunately he's mellowed over the years.

I've also had this exact "to geld or not to geld" conversation with at least two colt owners. Neither horse was stallion material in anyone's opinion but the owner's, but I didn't say that to them just as I didn't say that to you. In fact, I haven't even bothered to look at the pictures you posted.

I asked the owners just what about their colts was so gosh darn special that they deserved to pass along their genes, particularly when compared to other stallions in the area that were already offered for $100. I asked them if they were aware of the state laws regarding fencing & stallions. I asked them if they were prepared to have insurance to cover damages caused by their stallions if they escaped less than standard fencing and bred the fancy double-registered show mare (mine) that boarded with their colts.

I didn't have to tell them that their horse wasn't breeding material. They didn't have to ask the internet for tips on how to handle a stallion when they had zero experience with one. They were smart enough to do the math and realize that it was a lot more trouble than it was worth, particularly for the one who was unemployed and relying completely on spousal income to foot the bill for her pony habit (and his patience with her selfish/thoughtless spending was getting very, very thin).

You go right ahead and do what you want with your horse. You have every right to keep him intact for whatever reason you want. Just remember that, when researching a stallion, mare owners will google his name and discover this thread. They will see what little knowledge you have about stallion ownership and the disdain you have for the mare owner's opinion. Those with barely half a functioning brain will back their checkbooks quietly away, leaving you to keep paying extra insurance and board on a stallion that is not earning his keep with those dime-a-dozen dangly bits.

[myrna]

Not hiding behind a name,i've had this one for 59 years and don't see any reason to change it.Do what you will with this horse,just don't ask for any more opinions.......

[Eye in the Sky]

I AM hiding behind a name, and with good reason, but no need to go into that right now...

I love Arabians, and was involved with breed shows for a number of years. I have never owned a stallion, but at one point fantasized about it and decided to spend sometime researching my "future role" as an SO. What I came away with, after spending some time working on a breeding farm was this: Stallion ownership, if done well, should be left for those with bigger pocket books than I.

I really think if you were able and willing to step back a bit, unemotionally of course, you would be able to better evaluate and perhaps see what some of the others are trying to say to you. I really did not see anything rude, especially initially.

When I was looking for a stallion to pair with my former broodmare, the SO's that impressed me the most were the ones that knew their stallions' good and bad qualities, as well as what their genes would likely contribute to the cross with my mare - again, good and bad.

Also, being an SO requires a certain level of confidence and acceptance of the brutal public - we are not always very nice And when you have the NICEST stallion who throws amazing foals, and still cannot drum up enough business to cover your costs of advertising, campaigning and regular horse care, the public can be very brutal - one unkind word can send your world spinning.

As I said, I was involved with Arabians and did the breed shows for a bit, but I admit to not being very familiar with your colt's bloodlines. I would say, though, that the folks who have piped up already are pretty knowledgeable and I would trust them. Just looking at the pictures you posted and the pictures I could find online of the sire and dam, I'm not inclined to say it's a horse I'd want to breed a mare to or have any foals by - I like athletic horses, and I do not like the length of back, as some have already stated. I don't think that's necessarily indicative of a horse's ability to BE athletic, but I would never take the chance on passing that genetic quality along.

I hope this makes sense. I tried to be careful and thoughtful in my reply.

[Long Spot]

Eye, politely and well said.

OP, I hate to say it, but if you don't understand the reasons why you shouldn't be adding more horses to the load that don't have enough to eat and homes to provide for them, then you really really shouldn't be breeding. I urge you to check out the "starved horse in LA" thread, or many other threads on this board about lovely, better bred horses ending up at an auction and on a truck to Canada or Mexico before you make that decision.

Love and care for your new horse and provide for him the best you can. Be proud of that. Don't create new horses that wont get the same chance yours got with you. What part of THIS horse you think so highly of was abandoned with out board paid don't you get? Even HE didn't have an owner that could provide for him. He got lucky by finding you. More than 3/4 in the same situation end up in a can. Do you really want to add to that number?

I know that's harsh, but think about that. Please.

[Dazednconfused]

Something worth remembering here is that the OP didn't ask opinions for whether he should be gelded or not. People just sort of started volunteering their opinion he should be gelded. You might think that, but for one, I've never seen anyone on a forum with a stallion be convinced to geld their horse by a few posts on a thread. For two, it's just sort of in bad taste. Kind of like waltzing up to a stranger and saying "Your shirt is really unattractive." or "Your child should be spanked." Both may be true, but it doesn't mean you ought to say it or that it would do any good in the first place.

I would say that arabian people are somewhat less likely to geld than in some other breeds (Observation: arabian show in july 2009 - look in the warmup at any time and you're likely to see at least 2 or 3 stallions in the pen at any given time. Hunter/jumper show in july 2010 at the same location: saw two the whole week.) On the one hand this means that many more stallions are out there than should be reproducing. On the other, it's really not so much of a crisis as long as you have skilled people handling & training the stallion. Most arabian stallions I have handled have been really nice-minded for the most part & could be handled by a child. The necessity of skilled handling is not so much about the boys themselves but people at shows and at boarding barns who are not horse savvy or safety minded, or simply don't understand a stallion's motivation (which is one thing; breeding). That would be a much bigger motivation for me to geld than anything else, actually, even if the horse in question was of extremely high quality.

Agreed with Ghazzu that if you're mentioning a stallion ring or Vicks vaporub, then you have no business owning a stallion...YIKES.

[Dazednconfused]

Well, one great reason to geld him, he's not one of Jullyen's best sons. Jullyen has several very nice WP foals. Once Sheila found the niche, he has had some really great foals. This colt is Nice. Nicer than a lot of arabian stallions right now, sadly. But he is not the best example of his breeding.

I really don't see how anyone can determine that from the photos provided. Again, they're terrible....

[DandyMatiz]

I really don't see how anyone can determine that from the photos provided. Again, they're terrible....

he has a long back. Jullyen is known for his short back, excellent hip, and balanced front and back. (and beautiful face). Arabians should not have a long back, against breed standard. his head is ok.. but nothing to write home about about. So the two defining traits of the arabian.. not there.

[arabhorse2]

My name is Susan Flanagan. I'm thinking 5 is a user name, just like my user name of arabhorse2.

I'm not sure what human children have to do with horse breeding, so I'll leave that particular spittle-flecked diatribe alone.

I've had Arabians for 32 years. All of them have been geldings, because I believe a horse who has nothing to offer in the way of improving his breed shouldn't keep his testicles.

Your horse doesn't scream stallion quality to me, and there's nothing about him that indicates he'll improve the Arabian breed.

His bloodlines aren't rare or special, and there are plenty of other horses out there with the same pedigree who have better conformation.

That's why I say geld him.

I've known plenty of stallions who deserve to keep their dangly bits, but yours isn't one of those.

You can do what you want and have your snotty little tantrums, but the fact is that horse is nothing special, and you have no clue how to handle a stallion.

You board, don't you? Unless you have a place of your own with proper fencing and the knowledge about proper stallion handling and care, you have no business even thinking about keeping that horse intact even if he was stallion material.

[mp]

Elise Doran. Pleased to meet you

My screen name is my first two initials. My last name is Hart. And I don't think we've ever met.

I've had Arabians for 18 years. I love the breed, and have bred five horses of my own. I bred one colt that was stallion quality. That was the assessment of experienced people who had no interest in him. His sire was hot at the time, and his get are still sought after, especially since he's no longer breeding. His dam line can be found in many of the best Polish performance and race horses. His full-blood sister was reserve champion mare at the Salon du Cheval. The photo in my profile is one of the glamor shots I had taken of him.

But after evaluating what it would take to stand him (and spending $10K in the meantime showing him to several halter championships) I gelded him at age 3. He's 10 years old now, and I've shown him at breed shows, in dressage, ridden him in gymkanas and on three-day trail rides. I get a lot of compliments on him, even from people who don't like Arabs.

Right now, he's on R&R, hanging out in the pasture with a couple of friends. I truly believe his life is lot more pleasant than it would have been if I'd kept him entire. I also believe MY life is a lot easier, too.

Again, I'll wish you luck with your horse. I hope you get to enjoy him as much as I enjoy mine.

[JSPDesign]

Sits down in the Arabians Anonymous meeting, "My name is Jamie and I'm 43 years old and an Arabian owner since 1986, have worked in full service facilities off and on since my mid 20s. I'm the owner of a non-breeding, non-showing stallion.

I'm not going to tell you to geld your stallion.......however , I can tell you that even my own is not breeding quality! I'm not barn blind, I know what I've got! lol My much adored 19 year young horse keeps his testicles through an honour bound agreement with his breeder and the fact that he's earned them through his behaviour both in mixed company and singly.

I believe I read somewhere that you're interested in distance riding with him? That's great, I don't think I've ever seen any top successful horses of that breeding in that sport----maybe they don't try it, or maybe they don't have the right stuff. I guess you'll find out. Good behavior in that setting will be a must and it won't be about gadgets or gimmicks, it's all about you and him. How he recovers from being stall bound for so long without much attention is probably going to be great measuring stick for you to use as you will also hopefully, have an honest, experienced stallion handler help you evaluate his right to keep his jewelry intact.

Best wishes and I hope my post was not offensive in any way. I don't worry about major expenses of owning my stallion because I live in the middle of nowhere with him and don't stand him, if I lived somewhere else or had visions of grandeur or delusions, it would be much more costly!

Jamie

[AmmyHntr]

Really sad when people can't feel comfortable asking for help!

Something worth remembering here is that the OP didn't ask opinions for whether he should be gelded or not. People just sort of started volunteering their opinion he should be gelded. You might think that, but for one, I've never seen anyone on a forum with a stallion be convinced to geld their horse by a few posts on a thread. For two, it's just sort of in bad taste. Kind of like waltzing up to a stranger and saying "Your shirt is really unattractive." or "Your child should be spanked." Both may be true, but it doesn't mean you ought to say it or that it would do any good in the first place.

THIS!

The OP opened this thread hoping to find out registration information about her horse. The OP NEVER asked for "advise" about keeping the horse a stallion, it was asked if she was going to geld him. Her reply was she didn't know and if he was stallion material she would sell him to someone with the knowledge and facility to stand him.

Why do some people feel like it is their duty to attack people asking for help and offer their expert "I am GOD of the horse world" opinions to everyone who simply posts with a question. The OP never said she was a professional or would kept the horse a stallion for herself.

This it is a "PUBLIC" board and not limited to the mighty few that take themselves too seriously. Get over yourselves people! I hope you never have to go on a public board with a subject where you have no knowledge and be treated the way you have treated the OP.

To the OP, good luck with your horse. I'm glad you got some answers to your questions. At least you can disregard opinions from the "experts that were not asked for ."

[Ghazzu]

This it is a "PUBLIC" board

Indeed it is.
Therefore one should not be surprised when people respond to a post in a manner that pleases them, but may not please the OP.

[HighFlyinBey++]

This it is a "PUBLIC" board and not limited to the mighty few that take themselves too seriously. Get over yourselves people! I hope you never have to go on a public board with a subject where you have no knowledge and be treated the way you have treated the OP.

If the OP has "no knowledge" WTF is she doing even CONSIDERING owning a stallion?

All I did was remind the OP that her disdain for the

opinion of someone a hundred miles away

might not be taken very well by a mare owner potentially interested in her stallion, yet she went and lumped me in with the "you're so mean and nasty for telling me to geld him" group, then snarked even further that I was hiding behind a made-up name.

I find in absolutely hilarious that first my opinion is first worthless because I'm hiding behind a screen name, then I'm suddenly an

expert "I am GOD of the horse world"

because I posted my name and the portion of my equine experience that pertained to this thread. If that's being rude or treating the OP badly, she's in for a really rude awakening in the cut-throat Arab stallion world. She's going to need a LOT thicker skin than what she's shown here.

I feel very sorry for her fellow boarders.

[VanEq]

I would say that arabian people are somewhat less likely to geld than in some other breeds (Observation: arabian show in july 2009 - look in the warmup at any time and you're likely to see at least 2 or 3 stallions in the pen at any given time. Hunter/jumper show in july 2010 at the same location: saw two the whole week.)

I would absolutely not say that this example means that Arabian people are less likely to geld than other breeds. Go to ANY breed show-- AQHA, APHA, Morgan, anything-- and you will see more stallions than at a Hunter/Jumper show... just one potential reason would be that there are classes in breed shows SPECIFICALLY geared toward exhibiting the conformation of a breeding animal (halter classes). Most H/J shows don't offer halter classes-- or at least not to the extent and variety of a breed show.

People take their stallions to breed shows to promote them to that breed. I know lots of stallions actively competing at H/J shows too, so not sure why you saw so few... but the bottom line is, it's a whole different rodeo at open shows than it is at specialty/breed shows.

At any rate. I am glad the OP found the information she was looking for on the colt, and I wish her the best of luck in the future. I too think she (and colt) will be far happier down the road if she makes the decision to geld, and I could give 100 reasons why, but it will obviously do no good.

[chaltagor]

I hope you never have to go on a public board with a subject where you have no knowledge and be treated the way you have treated the OP.

God that would be horrible! I'm getting the vapors just thinking about it.

(BTW, it's strange how someone would be able to find a BB to post on about a subject but have no way of finding information about that subject anywhere else. Just sayin'.)

[AmmyHntr]

Originally Posted by HighFlyinBey++ View Post

If the OP has "no knowledge" WTF is she doing even CONSIDERING owning a stallion?

[/QUOTE]


The original post was where to find information about Arab Registry/identifying her horse. She never asked about leaving him a stallion. The "experts" volunteered that information.

because I posted my name and the portion of my equine experience that pertained to this thread. If that's being rude or treating the OP badly, she's in for a really rude awakening in the cut-throat Arab stallion world. She's going to need a LOT thicker skin than what she's shown here.

I feel very sorry for her fellow boarders.

"pertained to this thread." AGAIN, go back and read her posts. The thread was started to gain information about Arab registry and horse identification.

Why would you feel sorry for her fellow boarders when she said she would sell him if he turned out to be stallion material. There you go jumping to conclusions again. Maybe you should go back and read her posts and be clear what the thread is about or perhaps you just wanted to prove to her how "knowledgeable" you are.

I think OP has a thick enough skin. She is smart enough not to entertain any more abuse as she has not posted since and is probably totally turned of by COTH and our "expertise." Way to go!

Really, are you people this obnoxious IRL or just online?

[CatOnLap]

Really, are you people this obnoxious IRL or just online?

Your judgypants are showing!

[chaltagor]

Oops, forgot. My first horse I bought as a gelding and it wasn't until after he was dead that I found out he had been bred and then gelded and sold. He was a marvelous first horse and a wonderful friend. He didn't care at all about other horses and could be put out with anyone. He would not have had the same life if he had been intact. Oh, and he was Arab, of course.

[HighFlyinBey++]

OP opened the door to gelding when she answered the question. It's fair game now

YOU go back and read MY posts. I haven't told her what to do one way or the other. I gave her additional food for thought.

She doesn't have thick skin or she wouldn't have reacted the way she did on this thread. I feel sorry for her fellow boarders because I bet you dollars to donuts that she's ranting and raving to them because the meanies on the intarwebz don't like her pretty pony.

Interesting how you came out of lurkerdom just to protect the OP's delicate sensibilities from obnoxious internet strangers.