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  • #41
    He's a cutie and I can't see enough from those photos to know if he is stallion quality or not. He needs muscle and I'm guessing training. And showing or whatever his niche is. You can cut the parts off at any point along the way but you can't put them back on! I think the Arabian registry will help you get papers as long as the horse was obtained legally (as here from a lien).
    Every mighty oak was once a nut that stood its ground.

    Proud Closet Canterer! Member Riders with Fibromyalgia clique.

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    • #42
      Originally posted by grayarabpony View Post
      Looks like he's weaving to me. His focus is all on the other horse.

      I knew a stallion (Arabian, by chance) who was a stall weaver and would do a larger pattern like that when turned out.
      He's not. I worked in two arab barns and have considerable experience in bagging horses for photoshoots. In my professional opinion, he is not...

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      • Original Poster
        #43
        Originally posted by sketcher View Post
        No, rational is having him gelded. Especially in this economy.
        Explain this logic- it seems backwards. What exactly does the economy have to do with the decision to snip or not? Gelding costs money keeping him intact does not.
        3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375 10582097494459230781640628620899862803482534211706 79821480865132823066470938446095505822317253594081 284811174502841027019385.....

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        • #44
          Originally posted by 5 View Post
          Explain this logic- it seems backwards. What exactly does the economy have to do with the decision to snip or not? Gelding costs money keeping him intact does not.
          It costs money to stand/promote a stallion.
          It costs money to properly house a stallion.
          It costs money to breed mares and care for foals.

          Gelding is a one-time expense. All of the above are ongoing expenses.
          __________________________
          "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
          the best day in ten years,
          you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."

          Comment

          • #45
            Well, I'm just glad you got the info you needed to find out his identity and his heritage. While A.J.'s history speaks for itself on being halter bred, I like to recall who his dam was as well. May not have been everyone's cup of tea, but I kind of wonder, in an off chance sort of way, what would have happened in the Arabian world if many, many people had won their halter ribbons and then took their horses on to win some performance classes what our breed would be today. While I don't think it would have made AJ a leading sire of winning working cow horses , he might also have been bred just a touch differently. Instead of always being looked at as "halter breeding". Even while I have a soft spot for him, I'd rather not have it sometimes too.

            Good luck and again congrats on getting your info. As a side note, many AJ bred horses, close up or not, are really late maturing. Many will keep that youthful look until close to 8 years old. My personal hope is that it makes them live a little longer healthier! Pretty naive, but I can hope nonetheless.

            Jamie

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            • #46
              Just my 2 cents....

              Ask: why would I want to keep him a stallion? I own an Arabian stallion who has won two national championships, is a well-built horse, and has a lovely personality, Second Tsultan. We do not have the money/machine behind us to promote him the way some in the Arabian industry do. We get very few breedings. It definitely is not a money-making proposition. His bloodlines, though very nice, are not unique.

              Ask: why would he/I be happier as a gelding? I have a yearling colt who will soon be gelded, even though several people have said he may be breeding stallion quality. I am not going to throw another horse into the Arabian show world. I do not currently have pasture accommodations for a stallion. I do not want to have to consider stallion personality traits. I do not want to consider liability if he were to get out and impregnate a mare. Life is easier for me and him without the nouggies.

              Comment

              • #47
                Well said Jynx.

                Many inexperienced people are charmed with the idea of riding/owning a stallion. Not saying that is the case with 5, but I did ask if she'd owned a stud, and hearing no answer, I have to assume no.

                I have handled and ridden stallions and even had a part ownership of one a long time ago. None of them were a problem behaviorally, but I was working with them after 20 years or more of prior experience in the horseworld, and under expert tutelage, and having that experience, I no longer am charmed by the dangly bits. Geldings are just a little easier than studs. Really nice personality studs make even nicer personality geldings. Poorly handled geldings may not suffer in their behavior, but inexpertly handled studs can easily become a problem that is NOT easy to fix, even if you cut them later.
                "The Threat of Internet Ignorance: ... we are witnessing the rise of an age of equestrian disinformation, one where a trusting public can graze on nonsense packaged to look like fact."-LRG-AF

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by CatOnLap View Post
                  Really nice personality studs make even nicer personality geldings. Poorly handled geldings may not suffer in their behavior, but inexpertly handled studs can easily become a problem that is NOT easy to fix, even if you cut them later.
                  Right on.

                  OP, I think your horse is extremely cute and would make a lovely gelding. He doesn't scream stallion prospect. IMO, with the horse market the way it is, if a horse doesn't SCREAM stallion prospect, it's not worth the time and expense of marketing him.

                  I'm getting the impression that the more people say this horse isn't stallion quality, the more determined the OP will be to keep him intact.

                  Comment

                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Sithly View Post
                    I'm getting the impression that the more people say this horse isn't stallion quality, the more determined the OP will be to keep him intact.
                    Which is why I wonder why people bother starting such threads, and why so many of us keep replying. It's usually a waste of time.

                    Having said that - geld him and be done with it.
                    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                    -Rudyard Kipling

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster
                      #50
                      Originally posted by Sithly View Post
                      R
                      I'm getting the impression that the more people say this horse isn't stallion quality, the more determined the OP will be to keep him intact.
                      You are correct.

                      Not to mention I am in awe of the poor mannered replies of the posters from page two on hurling insults and chanting 'geld, geld geld' like a blood seeking mob. I would like for them to explain how their life is so impacted if a horse they will never see or interact with is kept intact? Please do not try the tired backyard breeder argument the only mare I ever had bred I still have the foal and she is in her teens and will never go to market or slaughter.

                      arabhorse2, mp, Ghazzu, sketcher, HighFlyinBey++, grayarabpony, myrna, JSwan
                      Instead of hiding behind a made up names why don't you show your bravery step it up a notch and go tell your neighbors face to face that their loser children should be sterilized because those children have nothing of worth to contribute to the gene poole and get back to us with how receptive they were to your observations


                      Not once did I hear true advice helpful to keep a non breeding stallion focused on work such as vicks vapor rub on the nose, properly fitted stallion ring or similar because this was not 'advice' it was a power game to them to see if they could manipulate a stranger by their online arguments.

                      It took this colt his horse 11 months to hit the ground and he will have 11 months to prove himself stallion material or not. If he starts acting obnoxious the 11 month rule is void.
                      3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375 10582097494459230781640628620899862803482534211706 79821480865132823066470938446095505822317253594081 284811174502841027019385.....

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                      • #51
                        Originally posted by 5 View Post

                        arabhorse2, mp, Ghazzu, sketcher, HighFlyinBey++, grayarabpony, myrna, JSwan
                        Instead of hiding behind a made up names why don't you show your bravery step it up a notch and go tell your neighbors face to face that their loser children should be sterilized because those children have nothing of worth to contribute to the gene poole and get back to us with how receptive they were to your observations
                        I told you what I know about your horse's bloodlines (having seen two of his grandsires, quite a few of their get and his sire in person), gave you an objective assessment of him and wished you luck. I also explained that the faults I saw were ones that conditioning wouldn't change.

                        And when you asked why the economy would figure in your decision, I told you why keeping any colt entire and standing a stallion is an expensive proposition, even when economic times are good. No nastiness there. Just what I know to be true. If you were standing in front of me with your horse and asking questions, I'd tell you the same thing.

                        If you are that sensitive, then don't post crappy pictures of a horse, hint that he's breeding stock and ask who he is.

                        PS -- speaking of "hiding behind made up names" are you related to Seven of Nine? Because 5 sure is a funny name.
                        __________________________
                        "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
                        the best day in ten years,
                        you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."

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                        • #52
                          5, are you a drama queen or what? You don't sound like someone experienced with horses.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster
                            #53
                            Pleased to meet you

                            What did the neighbors say?
                            Last edited by 5; May. 31, 2014, 05:09 PM.
                            3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375 10582097494459230781640628620899862803482534211706 79821480865132823066470938446095505822317253594081 284811174502841027019385.....

                            Comment

                            • #54
                              Originally posted by 5 View Post
                              What did the neighbors say?
                              They say you crazy.

                              Comment

                              • #55
                                Originally posted by Sithly View Post
                                Right on.
                                I'm getting the impression that the more people say this horse isn't stallion quality, the more determined the OP will be to keep him intact.
                                Originally posted by 5 View Post
                                You are correct.
                                Wow, that's too bad. Maybe someday you will your life the way you want and not be controlled by words typed by anonymous people you'll never meet.

                                Comment

                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by 5 View Post
                                  You are correct.
                                  Well, that's called barn blindness. We've seen that again and again and AGAIN on these forums. Ad nauseam. Honestly, it gets ridiculous, and IMO it's completely understandable that some posters are going to treat it with less than complete seriousness.

                                  I'm sorry that you feel some posters are out to get you personally. That's really not the case. You just happen to be living up to the stereotype of the defensive, barn blind new stallion owner who's completely enamored of the novelty of owning a horse with balls. You're not the first, and you won't be the last.

                                  I assure you that no one's out to get you or your stallion. We've just seen this so many times before that it's become a bit of a joke.

                                  Comment

                                  • #57
                                    I AM using my real name, you dolt.

                                    But since YOU insist - time to tell us yours.

                                    The reason you are being told to geld the horse is because it's what you should do.

                                    YOU started this thread. YOU asked questions. YOU wanted feedback and advice.

                                    YOU received it. From a heck of a lot of experienced horsemen - more experienced than you could ever hope or pretend to be.

                                    Don't like it? Tough noogies. The advice is sound. If you can't deal with the truth - I suggest you start a spoon collection or something equally benign.



                                    Originally posted by 5 View Post

                                    arabhorse2, mp, Ghazzu, sketcher, HighFlyinBey++, grayarabpony, myrna, JSwan
                                    Instead of hiding behind a made up names .
                                    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                                    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                                    -Rudyard Kipling

                                    Comment

                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by 5 View Post
                                      You are correct.

                                      Not to mention I am in awe of the poor mannered replies of the posters from page two on hurling insults and chanting 'geld, geld geld' like a blood seeking mob. I would like for them to explain how their life is so impacted if a horse they will never see or interact with is kept intact? Please do not try the tired backyard breeder argument the only mare I ever had bred I still have the foal and she is in her teens and will never go to market or slaughter.

                                      arabhorse2, mp, Ghazzu, sketcher, HighFlyinBey++, grayarabpony, myrna, JSwan
                                      Instead of hiding behind a made up names why don't you show your bravery step it up a notch and go tell your neighbors face to face that their loser children should be sterilized because those children have nothing of worth to contribute to the gene poole and get back to us with how receptive they were to your observations


                                      Not once did I hear true advice helpful to keep a non breeding stallion focused on work such as vicks vapor rub on the nose, properly fitted stallion ring or similar because this was not 'advice' it was a power game to them to see if they could manipulate a stranger by their online arguments.

                                      It took this colt his horse 11 months to hit the ground and he will have 11 months to prove himself stallion material or not. If he starts acting obnoxious the 11 month rule is void.
                                      Tailhair under your crupper?

                                      1. All I did was point out that it was unrealistic of you to believe that you were going to have much success making money selling a stallion that was so sought after he was abandoned for back board, and, in fact, currently has no registration papers.
                                      Do you think that's off the mark?

                                      2. Is "5" *your* real name? My identity is easily obtained, but I'll say it here to save you any wear and tear on your faculties: my name is CM Newell, DVM, and I think it's unlikely you will successfully market the animal referenced in the thread above as stallion material.

                                      3. Even mentioning the use of a stallion ring is enough to tell me you have no business handling a stallion.

                                      4. I happen to *like* my neighbors' children.

                                      5. Your statements about 11 months are unintelligible. What do you mean?
                                      "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                                      ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

                                      Comment

                                      • #59
                                        I think she may mean 11 months gestation and then from this moment on he has 11 months to prove himself as future breeding stock?

                                        A tough rule considering there's a lot of conditioning, training and successful showing to do in that amount of time.

                                        He's cute but long in the back and short in the hip. Nothing bad for a pleasure horse but nothing good for breeding unfortunately. Those will not change with conditioning or time and neither are desirable in an Arabian.
                                        You jump in the saddle,
                                        Hold onto the bridle!
                                        Jump in the line!
                                        ...Belefonte

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                                        • #60
                                          And given the depth of experience of at least three posters on this thread- with Arabians- I'd be listening. Or at least open to listening.

                                          He's not going to change the length of his back or loin or hip. Can't be shaped up. If he was cut he might get to go outside with friendly geldings in turnout. Hell he's been in solitary for three years? I'd cut him just to give him some down time out with other horses.

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