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A vent about rescues

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  • A vent about rescues

    I'm fed up so I'm venting...
    PS this is going to be a long one

    I do a bit of work with a couple of rescues (doing nutritional plans, some training work) so I get that it's a thankless job but for the love of all that is holy- if you're going to be a rescue, you've got to have the best interest of the horse in mind.

    Scenario A) Friend of mine is on the board for a local rescue and her and I rent fields at the same self-care place. One of the rescue's horses that had previously been adopted came back to them and my friend agreed to foster her so that she and I could put some miles on her before putting her back on the adoption list. Horse shows up head bobbing lame- it's not hard to deduce from the horses breed, build and movement what the issue might be (aka flashing neon sign of navicular). Rescue refuses to xray her or have a vet, instead they have a holistic trimmer come look at her who determines that it's her teeth causing the severe lameness. Friend finally gets fed up with refusal to do anything and has xrays done with her own money- ta da navicular. Vet shoes films to farrier, horse gets shod properly and is 95% sound almost immediately. But those shoes are pricey even with the farrier donating part of them, so she only gets to keep them on a couple months. And in a couple of days is lame again.

    Scenario B) the one I'm super pissed about. Another friend has been riding my more seasoned endurance horse- learning the ropes etc and is finally in a position to get her own horse. She is an experienced rider and a vet tech (aka not a novice by a long shot). She had posted a couple of ISO ads on FB and a rescue responded with a horse that seemed to fit the bill. She had her application approved and we went to see the horse a couple states away. Horse was not at all as described- major, major training issues, about a hand shorter, etc. But we both rode (and lived to tell about it) and liked her- agreeing that we could work through the training issues. Horse takes a couple of funky steps but was spastic and on really awful footing so we weren't worried too much about it. Friend would be keeping her with me where I rent a field so I can help her with the retraining process.

    Friend, we'll call her L, talks to the rescue and they agree to give her an extended trial period because as she is, this horse really isn't adoptable (she literally will not walk under saddle, very high octane gal). We get her to my barn, give her some chill time, start her on ulcer meds and get her started on proper nutrition, etc. Then start slowly working her. Horse is a freaking mess- she came from a very hard situation- BSC of 2, physical abuse, living in so much manure that it burned the skin all over her body. She is so fearful that she will fear urinate like a dog if she thinks something bad is going to happen. Her feet are also ridiculous, so that gets addressed ASAP. (BTW I'll mention here that they've had her for 2 years and she's been through 3 of their trainers, mostly having more bits in her mouth than most people know exist). But we are getting through to her and she is at least a rock star on the ground and hopefully we're making her more comfy by the day.
    So L heads out on a vacay that was set before all of this and I'm planning on putting a good bit of work in with the horse while she is gone. Go to bring her in the first day and she is crazy lame- first thought is abscess because no swelling or injury showing but refusal to put weight on RH. I give her some bute and put a poultice wrap on her (yes, I know this is mostly to make me feel better). The next morning nothing is popped but she's almost sound again- this repeats itself through the next few days- going from dead lame to will stand square with only a slight hitch to gait in a matter of hours. There also other signs that show it might be something up higher in the leg. So L calls the vet to come out for the mare and leaves vacation early. Did an extensive exam on her including blocking and the results were pretty clear- up high (mostly likely hip) and this horse is not going to be an endurance candidate at all. She can't afford more than one horse and definitely cannot have a pasture pet so she calls the rescue to tell them that unfortunately mare needs to come back (she is less than halfway through her trial period).
    Oh and I should mention that through this she has kept the rescue completely informed and rescue has been actively telling her to seek any other treatment other than vet- chiro, massage, vitamins, etc.
    Without evening looking at her or talking the vet, the rescue starts pretty much demanding she do chiro on the mare. L says no, vet did not at all indicate that would be a helpful course of treatment. Rescue is sending nasty emails saying horse never took a wrong step in their presence but in the same breath says they gave her 6 months off when they first got her because of soreness yet never had a vet look at her. Actually as I am typing this out, L sends me another message they sent her diagnosing the problem as (and I quote) "a pulled thigh muscle" that will be fixed easily by chiro. They haven't even seen the horse!!! Thankfully L is not a pushover and the mare is going back.

    I don't get it- why is it so much an ego thing?? Help the freaking horse and get on with life.

    PS- just want to make it clear that I have no issue with body work. My horses do get regular massage in fact but I use in conjunction with my vets not in place of.

    PPS- Yes, there could have been a PPE done but L didn't have one done due to her extended trial. Vet was scheduled to come out for a general exam when she got done with vacation.
    Wouldst thou like the taste of butter and pretty dress? Wouldst thou like to live deliciously?

  • #2
    I stopped my monthly donation to a well regarded equine rescue when they started "rescuing" meat cows (or cattle?). I'm a vegetarian, and I don't eat meat, but there is a humane system in place, and they are bred as food. Isn't an auction where most people send their cattle?

    I just didn't want my money going to that.

    Comment


    • #3
      Sigh --I hear you loud and clear. I have yet to see a horse rescue that really was for horses --to my very small brain, it seems more about making the rescuers feel good --one of my very, very best friends heads a horse rescue --she's always on the road picking up this horse or that, or meeting with someone in authority about rescuing a seized horse or horses --then on the phone finding foster care . . .meanwhile, her own horses sit at home in rather neglected pastures, stalls that could use a cleaning, hooves that could use a trimming, and are never, ever ridden (as far as I can tell -but I don't live near enough to be sure on that). She's a whirlwind of "saving" horses --but what about her own? Guess I just feel kind of bad for them. They are both nice horses.

      Comment


      • #4
        I feel the same way about many of the dog rescues. Soooo many dogs rescued from shelters with atrocious injuries/diseases/ailments to be the centerpiece of a long drawn out treatment and recovery, with the rescuers as heros. But so many don't make it, and in the meantime were subjected to days/weeks of additional pain and discomfort. Then there is the exorbitant cost of the veterinarians. Honestly, in so many cases I wish they would rescue, give some basic love and care and a quick and painless exit.
        "So relax! Let's have some fun out here! This game's fun, OK? Fun goddamnit." Crash Davis; Bull Durham

        Comment


        • #5
          There's one locally here that is always begging for money, but honestly, some of the horses they rescue should be given a humane end immediately and not accrue thousands of dollars of vet bills before putting it down anyway.

          And the woman is always on Facebook begging for money than threatening to get out of the rescue business because not enough people donate to her cause. I once offered to help her with her online presence (i.e., lose the negativity), but she couldn't be bothered. I for one won't send money to someone who is always threatening to quit. There are several rescues around here who understand social media and how to use it and they're all doing well.

          Comment


          • #6
            Interesting topic and timely for me. I am planning on buying a horse from a trainer who got her from a rescue, who originally got her from an "unlicensed" rescue -- The Haven made news in 2016 when the SPCA took some 600 animals -- 40 of them horses. Many animals were in quite bad shape. Euthanasia HAS to be an option. Without it, animals suffer needlessly.

            Additionally, it seems that people inclined to "rescue" are not similarly inclined to keep good records, stay current with paperwork, and treat the work professionally. The folks who threaten to get out of the rescue effort really should.
            *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=

            Comment


            • #7
              Know it’s not funny but sure got a good laugh out of the holistic trimmer diagnosing the lameness as a tooth problem. That is patehtic....but it’s funny.
              When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

              The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by MissAriel View Post
                I feel the same way about many of the dog rescues. Soooo many dogs rescued from shelters with atrocious injuries/diseases/ailments to be the centerpiece of a long drawn out treatment and recovery, with the rescuers as heros. But so many don't make it, and in the meantime were subjected to days/weeks of additional pain and discomfort. Then there is the exorbitant cost of the veterinarians. Honestly, in so many cases I wish they would rescue, give some basic love and care and a quick and painless exit.
                There's a horse rescue in our area that is like that. The odds of rehabilitating a 28yo OTTB with an ancient leg injury are nil. If they want to help the horse, maybe pay for a couple months at a lovely pasture retirement place and then put it out if it's misery. The same rescue told a mom who hadn't ridden since she was a child that a 5yo OTTB would be an ideal horse for her and her tiny, timid 6yo.

                The same attitude seems to have taken hold at the most venerable, long-standing rescue in town lately. I don't know who the one lady is and how she infiltrated because her FB profile is just of a team of driving horses (incorrectly hitched, at that). She's nuts, though. Rude as all get out to people on the community board in posts that are not animal related. But the rescue has apparently had a bonded pair of mules getting bounced from foster to foster for fhe past 4 years because no one there seems to understand that MULES ARE NOT HORSES. They finally got someone who knows what they're doing to work with the poor things and this lady is carrying on about their progress like it's magic.
                Last edited by Wanderosa; Jul. 10, 2019, 09:19 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I had my Kroger card set up to support a local rescue that seemed sane. On a couple occasions, I sent them small checks. They were very active on social media with lots of pictures of well cared for horses, etc. But they were constantly begging for money and donations. There was frequent begging for equipment donations like blankets, fly masks, halters. There was also continuous fundraising for feed, bedding, and emergency medical care, which seemed normal enough when you have a large herd of unadoptable, aged horses.

                  There was a big push for donations for Cashel Crusader extended nose fly masks in specific colors one spring. I thought it was a little silly they were so picky and matchy matchy, but I also understand wanting useful products that work for the horses and not just a bunch of crap. I volunteer at a local animal shelter and it is amazing the amount of useless garbage that people donate.

                  A few weeks later, the rescue owner is begging for a fly mask again for a particular horse, getting dramatic about needing one quickly. The first comment on Facebook was from a person who said, "I ordered one and had it shipped to you last month, did something happen to it already?" I thought that was a very innocent comment. The rescuer tactfully responds, "She needs a spare for when her other one is in the wash."

                  I know that shouldn't have irked me, but it did. I was irritated because I had followed that rescue long enough to know they'd be pulling guilt tactics in a matter of hours about the feed bill or the vet bill; every horse needing spare fly masks seemed like such a petty luxury. I think it was not 10 minutes later she posted about not having funds for a massive load of high end hay. I unfollowed them and switched my Kroger card to another organization.

                  I may be the world's biggest jerk for ending my support of an otherwise capable rescue over a fly mask, but donor fatigue is real. My own horses need stuff, too; I don't need to be helping to fulfill some rescuer's My Little Pony dress-up fantasies.

                  I currently have my Amazon Smile set up to support another reputable rescue. I have paypal'd them money when I can. I would have considered that owner completely sane as of a few years ago. But lately, the stress of rescue seems to have put her over the edge as well, with her resorting to a lot more hostile guilt tactics. I still give them money, but I really hate feeling like I'm being yelled at for not being generous enough.

                  I guess the moral of these stories is that rescue makes everyone crazy in the end.
                  Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    So the plot thickens....

                    Another friend of ours (who has wayyyy more time on her hands than I do) dug up some old video of her when she first came in to the rescue and was exhibiting the same things she's doing when mildly lame. So this is very obviously not something new
                    Wouldst thou like the taste of butter and pretty dress? Wouldst thou like to live deliciously?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by tabula rashah View Post
                      So the plot thickens....

                      Another friend of ours (who has wayyyy more time on her hands than I do) dug up some old video of her when she first came in to the rescue and was exhibiting the same things she's doing when mildly lame. So this is very obviously not something new
                      Why do people have to lie? It's not like it helps the horses.
                      Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Time to move on.
                        If a rescue you are associating with doesn't meet your needs, there are plenty out there who might, or don't go through a rescue.
                        Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                        http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Angela Freda View Post
                          Time to move on.
                          If a rescue you are associating with doesn't meet your needs, there are plenty out there who might, or don't go through a rescue.
                          Well... if you would like to go back and read a bit better.... I didn't go through a rescue (and I won't but that's another story)- this horse was adopted by a friend/student of mine. And it's a bit hard to drop it when they refuse to take her back for another 18 days, have made up a whole story about how she got hurt in our care (when it's clearly a problem that's been present before), don't want to do any vet care for her in the meantime (don't worry we are keeping her comfortable) and are planning on throwing her right back into training the minute she leaves. Sorry, somehow I don't feel that I'm being unreasonable by thinking a rescue should have the horse's best interest at heart.
                          Wouldst thou like the taste of butter and pretty dress? Wouldst thou like to live deliciously?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            This is why I am pro-euthanasia. Nobody ever anywhere can "rescue them all" let alone do it right. And some things just can't be fixed.
                            Sometimes the kindest thing really is PTS.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yeah, I don't deal with rescues much. Especially in horse resuce organizations there seem to be a lot of people with mental health issues, such as separation anxiety and anxious ambivalent attachment issues. This creates all sorts of issues with adopting.

                              I also do not really approve of them keeping so many older horses like I tend to find. I am all for keep for life but within means. If you are a rescue always begging for money, how about cutting your feed bill by euthanizing the 10 horses in their 20's that you have. The unadoptables, the ones with a screw loose...

                              I think one of the big differences between horse and small animal rescues is also the ability to foster. My grandma had at most 30 cats in her care. They had a room, those that wouldn't run off went out to play. Those that would run off went in a kennel staked into the ground so they could at least feel the grass and get fresh air. The kennel was easily moved for mowing or to put it in a shady spot or sunny spot. She rangled free cat food and back then scratch and dent section of the grocery story was a thing. These were the older/meaner types or the really young kittens that needed 4 hour feedings. Some were sequestered to other areas of her house if they didn't get along and few got run of the house 24/7 and other got run of the house during the day but were trouble makers at night so they went into the "cat room" (contained 4 kitty litters that were cleaned regularly).

                              Bit harder to keep 30 horses on one's property and care for them so individually like my grandma did.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                There is no such thing as "horse rescue". There is only "horse purchase". Since the meat market works on a quota basis, any horse who is "rescued" from going for meat is simply replaced by another horse to make up the quota that a buyer has contracted to supply to the industry. That other horse may otherwise have found a nice home as a children's or beginner's mount, but instead is now going for meat because someone "rescued" the original horse who would otherwise have gone for meat. Net "rescue" equals zero. Economics rule, and we live in a global economy. That being said, there are "horse dealers". Horse dealers purchase horses for cheap money, improve them, feed them, worm them, get their feet done, and maybe do a bit of training on them, and offer them for sale. Sometimes, they offer a guarantee that the horse will work out for the new owner, and will take the horse back if it doesn't work out. Some dealers are high end dealers. Some are low end dealers, dealing in cheap horses. Both can be excellent situations for a buyer to buy a horse from, OR can be crooks. Dealers may be attempting to make enough money doing this to survive, OR they may have a "sugar daddy" who pays the bills, and the business is done as a "feel good practice", which may or may not benefit the horses in their care. This situation is called a "rescue". When the money starts to run out, they start begging for donations to continue to operate. Their operations have no effect on the meat industry. They are simply low end dealers, and may or may not be good for the horses in their care, and may or may not be a good option for someone looking to buy a cheap horse. There is no such thing as "adoption" for horses, horses are "chattel", they are bought and sold, or leased. Each horse has an "owner". Children are adopted.

                                I live in a semi remote location. There are horse auctions available to consign horses for sale. Horses are brought in from ranches, old horses with possible soundness issues, young horses that are not broke, or even touched. Horses that someone doesn't want to own any more, for one reason or another. We also have a fairly large feral horse population, that exists on crown land and breeds. Every now and again, people round some of these up, and send them to auction, to sell them for profit, probably for meat. Some are OK, young enough, and could have potential. The meat buyers are often present at these auctions, buying cheap horses to fill their quotas. A local friend of mine is part of a long time local ranching family, and they use horses in their ranching business. They like buying these young, unregistered horses with potential, and do have the experience necessary to get them broke, and turn them into working ranch horses. They expect to pay just over meat price for what they buy, just outbid the meat man, and perhaps a couple other potential buyers just like them. They went to the local auction last year, looking for a prospect to buy. There were 18 unregistered two year olds brought into the auction ring. My friends had selected one colt that they liked, a plain bay with a couple of hind socks. There were some pintos, and palominos, colours that those who like colour will pay for, and since the auction offers open bidding on the group, then the winning bidder gets "choice", my friends figured that they would not bid until those coloured horses were purchased and removed from the herd. The bidding went well above "meat value", and when the winning bidder was asked which horse they wanted, they said "ALL OF THEM". It was a "rescue" who was the winning bidder, and had been bidding against other "rescues" which were also present, and had driven the prices up substantially. My friend still wanted the plain bay horse she had selected, so approached the winning bidder rescue, and attempted to buy her selected horse from them. "NO, we have rescued these horses, and we are saving them". "All 18 of them? Do you understand the amount of work and effort and cost of doing that? Wouldn't you like to sell on one of them to us now?" "No, we are taking them all home". My friend wished them luck, and left them to their business.

                                The result of this is that the consigner, who had given these horses no care, no feed, no training, just rounded them up off the range and expected to get meat price for them, profited substantially, was thrilled with this outcome, and are encouraged to keep on turning unwanted horses out on the range, letting them breed at will. And round up the survivors annually, and take them to the auction to get big profits, far bigger due to the "rescues" that are interested and willing to buy them for top dollar. Congratulations, rescues, great work being done, encouraging the breeding of feral horses and big profits for those who prey on them!

                                That's my vent for the day.


                                www.cordovafarm.weebly.com

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by tabula rashah View Post

                                  Well... if you would like to go back and read a bit better.... I didn't go through a rescue (and I won't but that's another story)- this horse was adopted by a friend/student of mine. And it's a bit hard to drop it when they refuse to take her back for another 18 days, have made up a whole story about how she got hurt in our care (when it's clearly a problem that's been present before), don't want to do any vet care for her in the meantime (don't worry we are keeping her comfortable) and are planning on throwing her right back into training the minute she leaves. Sorry, somehow I don't feel that I'm being unreasonable by thinking a rescue should have the horse's best interest at heart.
                                  I didn't quote your post or any post, because my comment was not specific to you or any one situation, but more general in nature.
                                  If it doesn't fit, don't adopt it.
                                  Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                                  http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by MissAriel View Post
                                    I feel the same way about many of the dog rescues. Soooo many dogs rescued from shelters with atrocious injuries/diseases/ailments to be the centerpiece of a long drawn out treatment and recovery, with the rescuers as heros. But so many don't make it, and in the meantime were subjected to days/weeks of additional pain and discomfort. Then there is the exorbitant cost of the veterinarians. Honestly, in so many cases I wish they would rescue, give some basic love and care and a quick and painless exit.
                                    This is like comparing apples to oranges. Horses that have been mistreated and starved are much closer to death than dogs in similar condition. From what I've seen of dog rescues, most make it back. Can't say the same for horses. I get the fact that many like to play God and decide who lives and who dies, but I personally wouldn't want to be in rescuer's shoes. It's bad enough when I have to make euthanasia decisions for my own animals.

                                    I can say one thing from my own experiences, some dog rescues find the biggest hard luck dogs they can find to solicit donations. The dog with the embedded chain in its neck got dragged to every fund raising event they could find, the dog who was thrown off a freeway overpass was immediately swept into their arms to raise money.... all the while, the woman who ran that particular rescue carried an adorable "rescued" chihuahua puppy around in her purse that she could have easily found a legit home for.

                                    Yet there was another rescue woman who told me of a pit bull she had gotten that was so damaged she felt she couldn't in good conscience find a home for her and kept her at her own home.

                                    Or another rescuer who had a tiny dog who was so skittish, nervous peeing, loose stools from fear... she kept her knowing no one would be able to handle her. She bragged to me that after several months the tiny dog had gotten enough courage to sneek up on the couch back, give her a kiss on the cheek and then ran away.

                                    Those last 2 rescuers are the salt of the earth.
                                    There are a lot of people out there. More abusers than rescuers. Whoever takes one of the massively abused dogs and attempts to save them is doing more than most of us. God bless them and don't judge them harshly unless you can point at specifics. Most of the time no one knows if a dog is a lost cause immediately. They try to save first. That's called having respect for life. They euthanize when it becomes apparent the animal is too far gone. I would prefer erroring on the side of life than death any time.
                                    Last edited by Tyrus' Mom; Jul. 11, 2019, 02:41 PM.

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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Tyrus' Mom View Post

                                      This is like comparing apples to oranges. Horses that have been mistreated and starved are much closer to death than dogs in similar condition. From what I've seen of dog rescues, most make it back. Can't say the same for horses. I get the fact that many like to play God and decide who lives and who dies, but I personally wouldn't want to be in rescuer's shoes. It's bad enough when I have to make euthanasia decisions for my own animals.

                                      I can say one thing from my own experiences, some dog rescues find the biggest hard luck dogs they can find to solicit donations. The dog with the embedded chain in its neck got dragged to every fund raising event they could find, the dog who was thrown off a freeway overpass was immediately swept into their arms to raise money.... all the while, the woman who ran that particular rescue carried an adorable "rescued" chihuahua puppy around in her purse that she could have easily found a legit home for.

                                      Yet there was another rescue woman who told me of a pit bull she had gotten that was so damaged she felt she couldn't in good conscience find a home for her and kept her at her own home.

                                      Or another rescuer who had a tiny dog who was so skittish, nervous peeing, loose stools from fear... she kept her knowing no one would be able to handle her. She bragged to me that after several months the tiny dog had gotten enough courage to sneek up on the couch, give her a kiss on the cheek and then ran away.

                                      Those last 2 rescuers are the salt of the earth.
                                      There are a lot of people out there. More abusers than rescuers. Whoever takes one of the massively abused dogs and attempts to save them is doing more than most of us. God bless them and don't judge them harshly unless you can point at specifics.
                                      Can you re-read this post and provide some sources for these sweeping absolute statements? How could you possibly substantiate a claim like "rescue horses are closer to death than rescue dogs" or that there are "more abusers than rescuers"? Assuming you don't have sources for these claims, what is the point of debating this poster? You think that horse rescue orgs should be allowed to euthanize but not dog rescue orgs? Because of your personal bias?

                                      Also, your first paragraph says that you don't envy rescuers, but then you go on to criticize the one trying to solicit donations by using photos of the most dire situations. Even if changes need to occur at some rescues to improve the treatment plans for some animals and even if some rescue employees' social skills leave a lot to be desired, I'd venture to guess that raising money would be another task of rescuers that you wouldn't envy. Maybe take your own advice and don't judge them harshly.

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                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by evilc123 View Post

                                        Can you re-read this post and provide some sources for these sweeping absolute statements? How could you possibly substantiate a claim like "rescue horses are closer to death than rescue dogs" or that there are "more abusers than rescuers"? Assuming you don't have sources for these claims, what is the point of debating this poster? You think that horse rescue orgs should be allowed to euthanize but not dog rescue orgs? Because of your personal bias?

                                        Also, your first paragraph says that you don't envy rescuers, but then you go on to criticize the one trying to solicit donations by using photos of the most dire situations. Even if changes need to occur at some rescues to improve the treatment plans for some animals and even if some rescue employees' social skills leave a lot to be desired, I'd venture to guess that raising money would be another task of rescuers that you wouldn't envy. Maybe take your own advice and don't judge them harshly.
                                        My sources are the rescues featured on YouTube. Two specific sources in fact that rarely have had to euthanize, Vet Ranch and Hope for Paws. When I check out horse rescue videos fromASPCA and others it seems a great number of horses get put to sleep, a higher percentage. And really....? Horses have a higher mortality rate overall for simple things (for dogs) like indigestion and surgery. A horse breaks a leg, most of time it's lights out. Dog breaks a leg gets a cast.... really... I need to spell out these basics to you?

                                        I didn't say they never had a need to euthanize, those are your words. I said dogs don't have the same mortality rate as horses do from starvation and broken bones etc. than dogs. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

                                        I criticize that first rescuer because she, like some mentioned here in this thread are manipulative... snd she kept an animal that could have easily been rehomed..... and that seemed to speak more to self interest than altruism. Others not so in the next example, they have the best interests of the animals at heart. Why do you need this explained to you? Some people seem like scammers... that first woman did to my husband and I. Like she was all about the money. It wasn't so much about raising money for the animals, it seemed like it was for her lifestyle. There are scammers everywhere. We thought she was one.

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